Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[LeGenD]

a. Canards of a certain shape, size, angle, metal, and coating retain the stealth characteristics. Hence it is moronic to suggest that fighters with canards are less stealthy as compared to those without it. Rafale has canards, Mirage 3/5 do not. Yet the Rafale has a smaller RCS compared to them.

Shaping and structure of the entire aircraft contribute to reduction of the RCS. An aircraft with canards can have a small uniform rcs but it cannot be VLO.

b. Supercruise does contribute to stealth but its absence in J-20 does not demote it to 4th generation or even 4.5 generation. J-20's armed with PL-15's won't have to deal with Rafales anyway. (Edit: F-35's also dont have supercruise. I dont see anyone claiming it to be anything less than a 5th generation)

F-35 has super-cruise up to MACH 1.2.

 

[Sineva]

Yes, it would be a wonderful vision. One Rafale parked on the ground in the extreme left corner, one in the extreme right corner - All right, little ones, off you go, home to your Mums.

Dumb Americans. They could have taken over North Vietnam so many times over, given the number of superior planes they had.

Last time I looked it wasnt aircraft that invaded countries and seized territory and occupied it,that actually required the use of boots on the ground,usually quite a lot of them in fact.
Despite all of the many claims and boasts of the airpower pundits and theoreticians of the last 100+ years we have still yet to see a war won purely only by air power.

PS
The reason that the us didnt try an invasion of north vietnam was because of the virtually certain intervention of a now nuclear armed prc if it did.

 

[LeGenD]

Maybe.
But not every problem has a solution.
F-35 has design defect, which can NOT be fixed I think. F-35 lift coefficient is too bad. Basically you need a slim jet or a over powerful engine to be supersonic cruise. F-35 has neither of them compared with the overweight body.

I would say that F-35 has received undue amount of PRESS and criticism which is detrimental in a way. Every aircraft including J-20 have problems and shortcomings which are slowly but surely being fixed. China is doing the right thing by not talking much about J-20 in its PRESS. People tend to have wrong ideas otherwise.

Numerous American pilots have testified that F-35 can do maneuvers which other jets cannot with the exception of F-22A. However, of-course, F-35 cannot be superior to another jet in every metric conceived - this is unrealistic expectation.

F-35 have excellent low-observability and sensor architecture coupled with desired level of kinematics to deliver good results and ensure air superiority in its missions. Make no mistake.

Please keep in mind that F-35 is equipped with a very powerful engine - it enable F-35 to do things which other single engine designs cannot.

 

[Figaro]

F-35 has super-cruise up to MACH 1.2.

It does not have sustained super-cruise like the F-22 ... it can only "dash" for a certain amount of time (roughly 150 miles) at a rather shabby Mach 1.2. That is not super cruise and is one of the F-35s large design drawbacks that was somehow just ignored by LockMart rather than fixed (too late now anyway).

https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252Faviation%252Fcomments%252F37twlx%252F

 

[I S I]

BS with BS again.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Last time I looked it wasnt aircraft that invaded countries and seized territory and occupied it,that actually required the use of boots on the ground,usually quite a lot of them in fact.

Just idle curiousity: WHY did you write this post?

 

[airomerix]

Shaping and structure of the entire aircraft contribute to reduction of the RCS. An aircraft with canards can have a small uniform rcs but it cannot be VLO.


F-35 has super-cruise up to MACH 1.2.

Mach 1.2 is hardly supersonic in my opinion.

 

[LeGenD]

It does not have sustained super-cruise like the F-22 ... it can only "dash" for a certain amount of time (roughly 150 miles). That is not super cruise and is one of the F-35s large design drawbacks that was somehow just ignored by LockMart.

https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252Faviation%252Fcomments%252F37twlx%252F

This was in 2012.

To give you some perspective, there is hell of a difference between radar system of F-35 in prototyping stage and the variant approved for mass production. This improvement was done in sheer silence but somebody leaked information in 2016.

I wouldn't expect Lockheed Martin to tell every manner of improvement in F-35 to the Public.

I just know that engine of F-35 is a very powerful one and there is a reason why this jet was equipped with it.

Mach 1.2 is hardly supersonic in my opinion.

Well, it is something and useful.

But yes! Only F-22A has true super-cruise capability. Rest is noise.

 

[Figaro]

This was in 2012.

To give you some perspective, there is hell of a difference between radar system of F-35 in prototyping stage and the variant approved for mass production. This improvement was done in sheer silence but somebody leaked information in 2016.

I wouldn't expect Lockheed Martin to tell every manner of improvement in F-35 to the Public.

I just know that engine of F-35 is a very powerful one and there is a reason why this jet was equipped with it.

The inability to supercruise is an inherent design problem ... you can improve the radar but how would you fix the design limitation? Super cruise was not even one of the main design objectives, which is a key flaw of the F-35 program IMHO. If there were any serious upgrades or even an indication to fix this problem, Lockheed Martin would be more than happy to announce it given the bad press they've been getting in recent years.

 

[LeGenD]

The inability to supercruise is an inherent design problem ... you can improve the radar but how would you fix the design limitation? It appears that super cruise was not even one of the main design objectives, which is a key flaw of the F-35 program IMHO.
View attachment 657305

My friend,

That is old report (2003).

Think what would be the situation now.

There are tweaks to design aspects of F-35 in newer blocks. The upcoming Block 4 have further amendments - it is a big leap from the original.

F-35 now exist in different blocks and many will be uplifted to latest standard.

 

[Sineva]

Just idle curiousity: WHY did you write this post?

Probably because your comment was just so really,really stupid that if you`d actually stopped and thought about it for a second then you hopefully wouldnt have written it in the first place.....but sadly you did.

 

[Figaro]

My friend,

That is old report (2003).

Think what would be the situation now.

There are tweets to design aspects of F-35 in newer blocks. The upcoming Block 4 have further amendments - it is a big leap from the original.

F-35 now exist in different blocks and many will be uplifted to latest standard.

Please give me evidence on how Lockheed Martin is going to fix this major design problem ... a problem that has been there since the inception of the JSF program? I am sure if Lockheed Martin could fix it with relative ease, they would announce it to the rest of the world given the massive amount of flak the JSF has been getting in American media.

 

[LeGenD]

Please give me evidence on how Lockheed Martin is going to fix this major design problem ... a problem that has been there since the inception of the JSF program?

Super-cruise output come from the engine - design of the jet is not the issue.

 

[litman]

indians are loser and keep on displaying their defeatist mentality since 27 feb. they have no confidence on their professionalism and always brag about the hardware .they used to worship su 30 till last year and suddenly their god betrayed them and they were looking for a new one. i remember watching a documentary on nat geo many years ago in which indian sukhoi pilots were bragging about their plane and they also mentioned some of the tactics they will use with su 30 . he said that we will take this jet at 30000 feet and let the enemy identify it and if they still have the guts to challenge it they can accept the challenge. and after 27 even modi accepted the defeat when he said k agar rafale hota to...............the simple fact is that PAF hit them so hard that day that they are still in a state of shock and these statements about rafale are just for restoring some pride for the IAF. they will suffer from the post traumatic stress disorder for years to come.

 

[Figaro]

Super-cruise output come from the engine - design of the jet is not the issue.

The F135 has more than enough dry thrust to supercruise ...