halloweene
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2013
- Messages
- 466
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Not really related, didn't find where to post it but definitely worth a look. Grab a drink, fasten your seatbelt and enjoy for four minutes....
Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]
- Thread starter SQ8
- Start date
Abingdonboy
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 29,597
- Reaction score
- 46
- Country
- Location
Indeed but what do certain people keep saying? "But the MiG-35/MKI is cheaper" (unit cost that is). Failing to understand the MMRCA was always about more than just the plane is the reason for a lot of ire directed at the Rafale and it is more than a little frustrating to see the same old nonsense in every Rafale/MMRCA thread.Didn't we said that for a long time?
MokshaVimukthi
BANNED
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 1,960
- Reaction score
- -18
- Country
- Location
I guess they are flying 100 feet off the ground. What happens to the ground warning receive ? does it get switched off ?
sancho
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 13,011
- Reaction score
- 27
- Country
- Location
Interesting but also strange, Rafale gets an additional A2G weapon, but it's neither a low collateral damage, SEAD or heavy attack weapon, but a 1000lb GBU 16.The same weapon that proved not to be that useful at the EF in the Libyan conflict.
The outlook for the Rafale NG (around 2025) is interesting though, with credible modifications around the airframe, which might make the Rafale much larger. Most likely forced by the same necessity that we see at the N-LCA development now, to increase the internal fuel capacity to carry less external fuel tanks. But while the N-LCA needs it to free hardpoints, Rafale might need it to counter the lower fuel capacity of it's CFTs. More internal fuel + CFTs then makes way for stealthy weapon pods in future!
sancho
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 13,011
- Reaction score
- 27
- Country
- Location
Not related to Rafale yet, but may have the potential soon:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1c47cb82-bcec-11e4-a917-00144feab7de.html#slide0
Other reports said, that documents of the Defence and Finance Ministries were leaked too and depending on RIL's involvement in this (no matter wrt which Ministry), it can have a huge impact.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1c47cb82-bcec-11e4-a917-00144feab7de.html#slide0
Other reports said, that documents of the Defence and Finance Ministries were leaked too and depending on RIL's involvement in this (no matter wrt which Ministry), it can have a huge impact.
PARIKRAMA
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Messages
- 4,871
- Reaction score
- 185
- Country
- Location
Well honestly whether its adani or ambani - anyone of the name and PM's name will be dragged at some point of time especially by opposition (read congress especially Raga post vacation of course) and by Arvind Kejriwal... Surely, the investigation and its impact must be contained at some level. Good news is even in Rafale deal, RIL's role as of now seems limited (other than wings part manaufacturer which may be used as a supply chain unit to HAL perhaps). But since HAL produced rafale is at least 44 months away from date of contract signing, its impact would be limited. If in case, RIL has a much bigger role via Reliance Aerospace and is a much bigger Supply Chain partner, then yes there is a chance it may blow out to be a bigger controversy.
sancho
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 13,011
- Reaction score
- 27
- Country
- Location
It's not about the political side or the possible relation of these people to the PM, but the fact that if RIL as a company has paid Government officials or workers to get their hands on classified documents and gained benefits with them, be it in the Oil or maybe the defence sector. If RIL is involved in this in any manner, it would more than difficult to keep them involved in a deal that is about several billions of taxpayers money, especially since this can be a major scam. Btw, their role is not limited at all, since they are Dassaults prime production partner in India and a good chunk of Rafales parts would be produced from them and diverted to HAL for the final assembly.
PARIKRAMA
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Messages
- 4,871
- Reaction score
- 185
- Country
- Location
Thales Says Offset Demands Becoming Onerous as India Delays Jets
(Bloomberg) -- Thales SA, a member of the Rafale fighter consortium that’s waited three years for India to sign a 126-jet order, said emerging nations are tying increasingly demanding levels of employment and technology transfer to defense deals.
While arms-makers have had to meet “offset” requirements in countries buying their gear for decades, recent requests go far beyond simple revenue-creation stipulations that could be satisfied through activities not directly related to weapons deals, Thales Chief Executive Officer Patrice Caine said today.
The Rafale order, the world’s largest ongoing military-jet tender with a value of $11 billion, has been held up by issues concerning technology transfer and Indian demands that Dassault Aviation SA, the plane’s designer, guarantee the quality of work done in the Asian state, people familiar with the matter said last month. Thales supplies the Rafale’s radars and missile-guidance system, equivalent to about 25 percent of the aircraft’s worth.
“Clients expect a transfer of technologies, employment with added value, local implantation,” Caine said at a press conference in Paris after Thales reported full-year earnings. “We must accompany this movement, meet their demands.”
Dassault, Thales and Safran SA, which makes the Rafale’s engines, have been awaiting confirmation of the Indian contract since the model was chosen in January 2012 over the Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin Corp. F-16, Boeing Co. F/A-18, Saab AB Gripen and MiG-35 from Russia’s United Aircraft Corp.
Local Partner
Having originally indicated that it would sign off on the deal in a matter of weeks, India had said in August that closure would come by the end of last year. While the first 18 planes are due be manufactured in France, the other 108 would be made under license locally by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.
The price of the fighters may be a further sticking point, given that the proposal is based around a tender first issued in 2007, two Indian air force officials said in August.
The deal with India was announced as the first export contract for the Rafale, though following the delay it seems set to be superseded by this month’s purchase of 24 of the twin-engine fighters by Egypt.
BAE Systems Plc, Europe’s largest defense company, said last month that it has given India the option of making howitzers locally to help conclude a deal to equip an army strike force responsible for patrolling the Chinese border.
Caine, who became CEO two months ago, spoke after Thales posted a 12 percent drop in adjusted net income to 562 million euros ($630 million) following a 117 million-euro hit from warship-maker DCNS SA, in which the Neuilly-Sur-Seine-based company has a 35 percent stake.
Earnings before interest and tax should this year gain about 15 percent to at least 1.13 billion euros, he said.
Thales Says Offset Demands Becoming Onerous as India Delays Jets - Bloomberg Business
(Bloomberg) -- Thales SA, a member of the Rafale fighter consortium that’s waited three years for India to sign a 126-jet order, said emerging nations are tying increasingly demanding levels of employment and technology transfer to defense deals.
While arms-makers have had to meet “offset” requirements in countries buying their gear for decades, recent requests go far beyond simple revenue-creation stipulations that could be satisfied through activities not directly related to weapons deals, Thales Chief Executive Officer Patrice Caine said today.
The Rafale order, the world’s largest ongoing military-jet tender with a value of $11 billion, has been held up by issues concerning technology transfer and Indian demands that Dassault Aviation SA, the plane’s designer, guarantee the quality of work done in the Asian state, people familiar with the matter said last month. Thales supplies the Rafale’s radars and missile-guidance system, equivalent to about 25 percent of the aircraft’s worth.
“Clients expect a transfer of technologies, employment with added value, local implantation,” Caine said at a press conference in Paris after Thales reported full-year earnings. “We must accompany this movement, meet their demands.”
Dassault, Thales and Safran SA, which makes the Rafale’s engines, have been awaiting confirmation of the Indian contract since the model was chosen in January 2012 over the Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin Corp. F-16, Boeing Co. F/A-18, Saab AB Gripen and MiG-35 from Russia’s United Aircraft Corp.
Local Partner
Having originally indicated that it would sign off on the deal in a matter of weeks, India had said in August that closure would come by the end of last year. While the first 18 planes are due be manufactured in France, the other 108 would be made under license locally by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.
The price of the fighters may be a further sticking point, given that the proposal is based around a tender first issued in 2007, two Indian air force officials said in August.
The deal with India was announced as the first export contract for the Rafale, though following the delay it seems set to be superseded by this month’s purchase of 24 of the twin-engine fighters by Egypt.
BAE Systems Plc, Europe’s largest defense company, said last month that it has given India the option of making howitzers locally to help conclude a deal to equip an army strike force responsible for patrolling the Chinese border.
Caine, who became CEO two months ago, spoke after Thales posted a 12 percent drop in adjusted net income to 562 million euros ($630 million) following a 117 million-euro hit from warship-maker DCNS SA, in which the Neuilly-Sur-Seine-based company has a 35 percent stake.
Earnings before interest and tax should this year gain about 15 percent to at least 1.13 billion euros, he said.
Thales Says Offset Demands Becoming Onerous as India Delays Jets - Bloomberg Business
PARIKRAMA
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Messages
- 4,871
- Reaction score
- 185
- Country
- Location
Livefist @livefist · 2h2 hours agoNegotiations done? Indian MoD tells Parliament proposal to buy Rafales "under consideration of Govt, however, no agreement has been signed".
Livefist @livefist · 2h2 hours ago
Here's the Indian MoD's statement in Parliament on the Rafale deal. Doesn't talk of 'negotiations' any more. #MMRCA
Livefist @livefist · 2h2 hours ago.@Aviaponcho Well, if they mean negotiations are over and final report is before the govt, it's certainly forward movement. @G_Steuer
I FLY HIGH
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
- Messages
- 1,116
- Reaction score
- 0
PMokshaVimukthi
BANNED
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
- Messages
- 1,960
- Reaction score
- -18
- Country
- Location
This sounds like Plan B to me. ........... prospect of Rafale is looking progressively dimmer.
Want immediate delivery of 5th-gen fighter: India to Russia
Bulk deliveries of the T-50 jet for Russian forces will commence in 2016. India wants Russia to deliver 144 jets. Russian go-ahead will give the IAF necessary number of planes to phase out ageing MiG-21s and MiG-27s. In a war scenario with China, an aircraft such as the T-50 would be ideal for missions deep into Tibet. Beijing has a very good border infrastructure that poses threat to India.
Want immediate delivery of 5th-gen fighter: India to Russia
Bulk deliveries of the T-50 jet for Russian forces will commence in 2016. India wants Russia to deliver 144 jets. Russian go-ahead will give the IAF necessary number of planes to phase out ageing MiG-21s and MiG-27s. In a war scenario with China, an aircraft such as the T-50 would be ideal for missions deep into Tibet. Beijing has a very good border infrastructure that poses threat to India.
PARIKRAMA
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Messages
- 4,871
- Reaction score
- 185
- Country
- Location
The plan B if what has been reported is true, is speculated one as of now.
i had posted it in FGFA thread where a reporter from The telegraph has quoted from sources within MOD about India going the same MKI route for FGFA.
Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions | Page 154
New Delhi has suggested to Moscow that the T-50 fighter jet (being built as an FGFA) can be supplied to the Indian Air Force (IAF) while the research to improve upon the aircraft can carry on simultaneously. The same formula of graded improvements was applied in the case of Sukhoi-30 MkI jets.
Bulk deliveries of the T-50 jet for Russian forces will commence in 2016. India wants Russia to deliver 144 jets. Russian go-ahead will give the IAF necessary number of planes to phase out ageing MiG-21s and MiG-27s. In a war scenario with China, an aircraft such as the T-50 would be ideal for missions deep into Tibet. Beijing has a very good border infrastructure that poses threat to India.
Unfortunately Rafale will be signed for sure as FGFA comes in Heavy class and this move is only to counter the planned deployment of 5G birds in China. For the record, in an offical Chinese Airforce video the 5G birds were featured leading to speculation of maturity of the project and very close to operational deployment of the bird J20 (read J-20 stealth fighter appears in PLA recruitment video | idrw.org J-20 stealth fighter appears in PLA recruitment video)
Looking from future perspective, and deployment of 5G birds in South East Asian theater, if report is true, then the logic behind it makes sense. But then again this is no Plan B for MMRCA. This is a strategic decision which is more logical then blindly starting FGFA induction in 2020+ and being naked with less squadrons. Moreover, FGFA is never intended to be replacement of Mig21/27 just like rafales are not too..
i had posted it in FGFA thread where a reporter from The telegraph has quoted from sources within MOD about India going the same MKI route for FGFA.
Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions | Page 154
New Delhi has suggested to Moscow that the T-50 fighter jet (being built as an FGFA) can be supplied to the Indian Air Force (IAF) while the research to improve upon the aircraft can carry on simultaneously. The same formula of graded improvements was applied in the case of Sukhoi-30 MkI jets.
Bulk deliveries of the T-50 jet for Russian forces will commence in 2016. India wants Russia to deliver 144 jets. Russian go-ahead will give the IAF necessary number of planes to phase out ageing MiG-21s and MiG-27s. In a war scenario with China, an aircraft such as the T-50 would be ideal for missions deep into Tibet. Beijing has a very good border infrastructure that poses threat to India.
Unfortunately Rafale will be signed for sure as FGFA comes in Heavy class and this move is only to counter the planned deployment of 5G birds in China. For the record, in an offical Chinese Airforce video the 5G birds were featured leading to speculation of maturity of the project and very close to operational deployment of the bird J20 (read J-20 stealth fighter appears in PLA recruitment video | idrw.org J-20 stealth fighter appears in PLA recruitment video)
Looking from future perspective, and deployment of 5G birds in South East Asian theater, if report is true, then the logic behind it makes sense. But then again this is no Plan B for MMRCA. This is a strategic decision which is more logical then blindly starting FGFA induction in 2020+ and being naked with less squadrons. Moreover, FGFA is never intended to be replacement of Mig21/27 just like rafales are not too..
sancho
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 13,011
- Reaction score
- 27
- Country
- Location
A Tiger, it's for an exercise called "Tiger Meet", where the participating aircrafts (including transporters or helicopters) show off with some great Tiger camos:
Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions | Page 567
Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions | Page 653
Similar threads
