Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[raj76]

F-15 + F-18 both pls

I still think the wiser move would be to go for F/A 18 Advance Super Hornets along with 5 to 10 E-2D Advance Hawkeyes

both could be used on land or on India future aircraft carriers


combination of Advance Super Hornet+AIM-120D+E-2D would be a deadly force against anybody

https://defence.pk/threads/revealed-japans-secret-weapon-to-destroy-chinas-j-20-and-j-31.402308/

F-15 + F-18 both no F-16s

 

[C130]

F-15 + F-18 both pls



F-15 + F-18 both no F-16s

Su-30MKI is better than F-15


would be a waste of money

 

[raj76]

Su-30MKI is better than F-15


would be a waste of money

u pls just count money dont bother our waste (which u dont) after 100% FDI F16+F18+ engines manufacturing in india
F35 atm overkill in our region

 

[PARIKRAMA]

lmao

rafale!!!!hahaha

@randomradio @Abingdonboy

 

[BON PLAN]

No idea as I was told DM is not yet signing things.

It seems he wishes to seek some tech bargaining in F21 HWT for Indian programs varunastra

The requirement is now much higher
18 HWT pee scorpene
6+3 = 9 scorpenes
So 162 torpedoes
Assume similar number for Arihant class so at least 18x4= 72
And add approx same numbers for 6SSN
18x6=108


So a ball park figure of 342 HWT required. Now F21 will meet majorly or entirely depending upon cost and technology provided to us. So I expect a little more haggling to be done here and there.

I am not optimistic for June at all

Don't you think Scorpene will also bring some exocet SM39? saying 4 or 6. so a need of "only" 12 to 14 F21 per sub.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Don't you think Scorpene will also bring some exocet SM39? saying 4 or 6. so a need of "only" 12 to 14 F21 per sub.

6 exocets a sub as of now for 6 scorpenes

It's true so requirement will be 12 per sub excluding spares and trial testing ones.

Depending upon mission config of course.

At best scorpene can carry 18 torpedo+ missiles or around 28-30 mines.

In that sense yes with say 25%spares it can be closer to 135 F21 instead of 162 for 9 scorpenes (6+3follow on)

 

[BON PLAN]

F-15 + F-18 both pls



F-15 + F-18 both no F-16s

Why not F22 IN ????

 

[GURU DUTT]

I still think the wiser move would be to go for F/A 18 Advance Super Hornets along with 5 to 10 E-2D Advance Hawkeyes

both could be used on land or on India future aircraft carriers


combination of Advance Super Hornet+AIM-120D+E-2D would be a deadly force against anybody

https://defence.pk/threads/revealed-japans-secret-weapon-to-destroy-chinas-j-20-and-j-31.402308/

but rafale+meteor+phalcon is even more deadlier pakage as with rafale you dont need extra fighters as escort when in a high risk SEAD /DEAD mission

as for american fighter i guess most probabally its gonna be F/A-18 E/F as it has longer legs and stealth gondola and CFT for extra fuel and is the best carrier based multi role fighter plus the cherry on the cake is that it has enigne comminality with LCA

 

[BON PLAN]

as for american fighter i guess most probabally its gonna be F/A-18 E/F as it has longer legs and stealth gondola and CFT for extra fuel and is the best carrier based multi role fighter plus the cherry on the cake is that it has enigne comminality with LCA

SH18 best carrier based fighter?
Rafale has longer legs, best loading capacity (from the same catapult. ie don't compare a 75m Charles de Gaulle catapult with a 90m US carrier one), best handling capacity, best weapons not used return to carrier capacity.
SH has only a bigger radar, so most probably a greater radar range.

 

[GURU DUTT]

SH18 best carrier based fighter?
Rafale has longer legs, best loading capacity (from the same catapult. ie don't compare a 75m Charles de Gaulle catapult with a 90m US carrier one), best handling capacity, best weapons not used return to carrier capacity.
SH has only a bigger radar, so most probably a greater radar range.

i know all that even IN wants rafale M for IAC1 and IAF is adamant for rafale but MOD has already decided to for an extra foreign fighter and since F16 is a single engined fighter and PAF already using it besdies we need a new doctroine around it hence the american fighter thats making more sense is super hornet but i may be wrong as there are some rumors that since USAF is looking some one to buy its F16s which its replacing with F35 and IAF seems to be perfect candidate and USA in proincipal agreed to upgrade them to F16V level with latest WVRs, BVRs and other SOMs, SDBs , PGMs ect ect and even the complete assymbally line and this time MOD is in no mood to miss another chance which it once missed when freanch were ready to transfer same type fopr there M2Ks

 

[Perpendicular]

India pussyfoots around even naming China as an aggressor?

Agreed, we lack self confidence or it might be the history still holding us down.

India has neither the guts nor the motivation to even fight with words let alone involve itself in an alliance against China.

Agreed again. Our actions do suggest sometimes about that motivation issue.

Learn from history - You never fight wars in your home, you fight it in your enemy

Oh yes, India did respond, it responded strong enough to force a change. You have to look deeper while zooming out on the region a bit.
Although residue is still there in kashmir, but you have to count this that the situation we are faced with is similar to a situation where you are dealing with someone on a suicide mission and is willing to harm you in the meantime.

 

[Agent_47]

Often times I wonder why India even needs all this fancy hardware? Is it all for your Independence Day parade party or are you ever gonna use to punish? War is being fought in your territory.

India need fancy hardware because India faces real threat from two nuclear armed nations and faced 5 wars in its rather small existence. India need arms because enemies are sending terrorists every day to kill our civilians. Indian need army because it is one of the factors keep india as one.

Unlike some countries who have no adversaries in its entire continent but still have a $700 billion defence budget just to keep military industrial complex running and insist on meddling in internal matters of almost every country on earth just to keep its self interest.

If it would have been any other country with resources India has then it would have turned the offending parties to dust but all India can do is posture while clearly defined and targeted attempts are made in it's own territory by nation 1/7 it's size.

Isn't it ironic that a small organisation called Al qaeda and a leader called Osama managed to uproot conscience of the worlds most powerful nation and made them lose in trillions on war. You have lost more men in that war than we lost in our war against jihadists.

In Kashmir and in your cities, In my opinion you have already lost when the smaller party has the temerity to fight you in your own home!
Learn from history - You never fight wars in your home, you fight it in your enemy's home.

We are real Indians, We take glory in dying on motherland by serving it not in some foreign land. You won't understand the feeling, ask Red indians they can help.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I said about DCNS doing the 100% FDI route and bringing critical tech ..
See below..
This infographic is in response to yesterday increasing of FDI or rather relaxing the rules a bit.

 

[Perpendicular]

I still think the wiser move would be to go for F/A 18 Advance Super Hornets along with 5 to 10 E-2D Advance Hawkeyes

 

[C130]

but rafale+meteor+falcon is even more deadlier pakage as with rafale you dont need extra fighters as escort when in a high risk SEAD /DEAD mission

as for american fighter i guess most probabally its gonna be F/A-18 E/F as it has longer legs and stealth gondola and CFT for extra fuel and is the best carrier based multi role fighter plus the cherry on the cake is that it has enigne comminality with LCA

ummm you are right, but when you take into costs for the Rafale the ASH still is tempting.

if you want SEAD/DEAD the Growler is perfect for that. yeah it isn't one package deal like the Rafale, but it'll get the job done.

two squadrons of Growlers=24
four squadrons of F/A 18 E/F for future India aircraft carrier=48
five squadrons of F/A 18 ASH=60

that's 132 aircraft 6 over what you wanted for MMRCA


assuming each is around $70 million flyaway cost that's $9.2 billion, add another $5 billion for weapons and other stuff and that's not a bad deal.

total life cycle cost is probably more than Rafale.

how much ToT and Make in India is another story.