Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[Grevion]

Right now it looks like the govt priority is the Augusta Westland bribery case. RM MP made a speech in parliament yesterday targeting congress (for which he being congratulated).
He did mentioned rafale once. This is what he said-
“We will reduce the deal value and we will save a lot. We will show them that we curved out a better deal that what the UPA government was getting that time,” Parrikar said in the Lok Sabha during Calling Attention Motion on the controversial AgustaWestland VVIP helicopter deal.

He said Congress had spread the word that the Rafale deal was signed for USD 9 billion, which got widely reported. “In such a situation, even other people also get carried with such false information"
source-http://www.financialexpress.com/article/india-news/rafale-deal-not-done-yet-government-negotiating-to-reduce-price-manohar-parrikar/250045/

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Rafale next aircraft to take up India’s Nuke Job ?
Published April 26, 2016
SOURCE: Anand SG / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

French air force Rafale seen above armed with Nuclear capable ASMP-A Cruise missile
India and France are on the final lap of negotiations and close to an agreement to sell 36 Rafale fighter jets. 36 Rafale fighters will make up barely two Squadrons in Indian Air Force While IAF wants to further expand Rafale fleet to 60 aircraft but MOD now seems to be more interested in Making in India American F-16 or F-18 fighter jet in locally then procure more French-built Rafale Omni role fighter jet .
Can Two Squadron of French Rafale fighter jets change the outcome of a war ? Not really but Rafale fighter jet might still play a vital role in India’s deterrence capabilities and might be next designated aircraft which will be tasked to deliver a nuclear weapon when needed .
At Present Mirage-2000 are the first go to aircraft by India’s Strategic Forces Command (SFC) who are responsible for the management and administration of the country’s tactical and strategic nuclear weapons stockpile other second lines of designated aircraft are Jaguars and Sukhoi-30 MKI in Indian Air Force fleet , Rafale most likely will supersede Mirage-2000s since French Company never shyied away in mentioning Rafale fighter jet has Nuclear Capable fighter jet in its bid documents for MMRCA Tenders and never objected in past for modifying French Mirage-2000s to carry nuclear weapons designed by India .
Interestingly in 2010 Strategic Forces Command had submitted a proposal to the Defence Ministry for setting up of two dedicated squadrons (40 nos) of fighter aircraft which will act as a mini-Air Force ,separately from Indian Air Force and will be dedicated Nuke delivery platform for SFC .
India most likely will receive Rafale fighter jets minus Nuclear air-launched cruise missile Air-Sol Moyenne Portée (ASMP) currently been used by France to deliver singular variable yield ‘TN 81’ Nuke warhead . India is working on lighter Mach 3 capable Brahmos-NG with a range of 290km to be later modified to carry smaller nuclear warhead for similar roles in near future and plans are to adapt it to other fighter jets like Mirage-2000, Mig-29 and even Rafale Fighter jets.

The article is partially correct.. There are talks of a black project.. Apart from brahmos NG, there is another project being going on which is a very similar case to ASMP-A. It's specs as I said before is roughly a 800-900 kg weight with warhead of 270 kg and a yield of 150-200KT. It's under development for some time but has gained lot of speed in last couple of years.

The ALCM arsenal in strategic parlance will have in future this device, brahmos NG and a Nirbhay Mini version. The game changer may be a new hypersonic ALCM which may come in max 5 years..

Regarding Rafale numbers, let time be the judge.. At this moment it's more of posturing.. Nothing more..

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The article is partially correct.. There are talks of a black project.. Apart from brahmos NG, there is another project being going on which is a very similar case to ASMP-A. It's specs as I said before is roughly a 800-900 kg weight with warhead of 270 kg and a yield of 150-200KT. It's under development for some time but has gained lot of speed in last couple of years.

The ALCM arsenal in strategic parlance will have in future this device, brahmos NG and a Nirbhay Mini version. The game changer may be a new hypersonic ALCM which may come in max 5 years..

Regarding Rafale numbers, let time be the judge.. At this moment it's more of posturing.. Nothing more..

Hello Sir What about the Main Contract of the first 36 planes

I had Two questions

1) Will the Agusta fire also reach the Rafale deal and further delay the whole thing

2 ) Secondly Are all the ToTs and offsets part of the Main 36 plane deal
OR related to the subsequent Make in India deal

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Hello Sir What about the Main Contract of the first 36 planes

I had Two questions

1) Will the Agusta fire also reach the Rafale deal and further delay the whole thing

2 ) Secondly Are all the ToTs and offsets part of the Main 36 plane deal
OR related to the subsequent Make in India deal

Hi bro,

No sir pls

For point 1
Delay can happen surely but the motive is unclear.. Seems a bit odd turn of events, owing to the fact that ground realities are different completely then what MP is claiming

Point 2
TOT part most are covered via IGA except black project cooperation bcz that's outside deal purviww..that's agreed at a different level altogethee

 

[Grevion]

This thread is so quite these days. It made me visit the older rafale thread which was started way back in 2005.
It was nice to see all the excitement when the rafale was announced as the winner in Jan 2012.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

From 2014 Garuda V

https://twitter.com/x/status/728567367844782081

https://twitter.com/x/status/587263334493265921

https://twitter.com/x/status/587263750970871808

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/20160508.aspx

 

[PARIKRAMA]

An interesting conversation with subramanian swamy.. Some excerpts which came in my mail.. Article is in oulook may 16th 2016 edition

+++

You had opposed the Rafale deal for French fighter jets as well.

Yes, that deal was finalised by two women. One was [Carla Bruni] the wife of the then French President Nicholas Sarkozy and the other was Sonia Gandhi. The price was too high and bribing was involved. That’s why I was opposed to it.

Are you satisfied at the fresh negotiations by the Modi government for Rafale jets?

Defence minister Parrikar had asked me if I would mind if the government purchased 36 Rafale jets from France. I told him I had full faith in him and I am satisfied with the way he has carried out the negotiations. Why, he has already reduced the price by one-third and the deal is not yet done.

You wrote a letter to the prime minister last year warning him against the poor shape of the economy.

Yes, yes. I said the economy was in a tailspin and it’s still in a very bad shape. Raghuram Rajan says he has managed to keep wholesale prices under control...that’s like bringing down the temperature of a patient by killing him. Look at the investment in capital goods industries, the core industries...lots of changes are still required.

How would you have handled the economy differently?

Although I am an economist, I would have used non-economic methods. As an economist, I know that part of the economy moves on psychology. Today, the most important thing is how to enthuse the people, particularly young professionals and the middle class, because social media has become powerful in opinion-making.

Is that why you recommend the abolition of income tax?

Yes. The rich have chartered accountants to help them evade taxes. At the bottom, there is no agriculture income tax. Therefore, it is the middle class and young professionals who bear the brunt of it; they will be thrilled if income tax is abolished.

How will abolition of I-T create jobs? Isn’t jobless growth the real concern?

Job creation means investments have to go up in small- and medium-scale industries. And for that the interest rate must come down. The prime lending rate today is 12 per cent, which I believe should be brought down to nine per cent. People are borrowing funds abroad at two per cent and lending it here...and this RBI governor cannot get it through his head.

You do not seem to believe Raghuram Rajan has done a good job?

Not at all. He may have gone to Chicago but no, I don’t think much of him. This man is completely unsuitable...he belongs to the World Bank-IMF crowd.

If RBI governorship is offered to you?

No, no. I am a political person. I will not accept any non-political position.

In an interview you said that you’d accept if the finance ministry is offered to you?

Of course, I will accept. A minister is in a political position.

+++
Catch the smart talk what he is aiming and why reporter is asking these questions...

Seems Swamy is going public with his interest to be FM.. Let's see if it happens or not..

Anyways AJ won't continue for much long.. That's assured unless he does something extraordinary to hang onto finance portfolio...

 

[randomradio]

Some real news about price.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-rafale-fighter-jets/articleshow/52230203.cms

The Rafale fighter deal that has been stuck for the past several months on pricing issues is likely to move ahead with a new offer from Paris that could see India paying 7.25 billion for 36 new jets.

It seems official though, and no weapons in this package.

 

[Nimitam]

Some real news about price.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-rafale-fighter-jets/articleshow/52230203.cms

It seems official though, and no weapons in this package.

So it is around 150 Million $ Per Rafale. No wonder the GoI is hunting for a new MMRCA.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I have said before that GOI will pay at most 56000 crs and is looking at below that figure..

See here..

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-120#post-8147026

Of course many things changed from that time including delivery schedule as well as the customization part.. Weapon package pruning has also been done as discussed here ..

Strangely I have not heard about support package reduction point to 5 years. Rather India has contended that spare consumption average for 5 years what Dassault says is on a higher side for first 5 years and thus for the same price instead of 5 years India has been asking for 10years support.. and this is not new rather something getting discussed from many months ago timeline.

As I said earlier most of Indian customizations for weapons package is nt gonna happen as our NG weapons are not ready yet and will done locally .. I said it here..

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-205#post-8245201

and

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/vide...-sales-to-india-to-be-discussed/4172825219001

 

[Nimitam]

I have said before that GOI will pay at most 56000 crs and is looking at below that figure..

See here..

View attachment 304773 https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-120#post-8147026

Of course many things changed from that time including delivery schedule as well as the customization part.. Weapon package pruning has also been done as discussed here ..

Strangely I have not heard about support package reduction point to 5 years. Rather India has contended that spare consumption average for 5 years what Dassault says is on a higher side for first 5 years and thus for the same price instead of 5 years India has been asking for 10years support.. and this is not new rather something getting discussed from many months ago timeline.

As I said earlier most of Indian customizations for weapons package is nt gonna happen as our NG weapons are not ready yet and will done locally .. I said it here..

View attachment 304775
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-205#post-8245201

and

View attachment 304778

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/vide...-sales-to-india-to-be-discussed/4172825219001

So what is the final price for a stand alone Rafale ?

without the weapons, without spares or training etc.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Haha, please first get this 36 jet deal/saga/drama over first please Mr President!!

 

[knight11]

So what is the final price for a stand alone Rafale ?

without the weapons, without spares or training etc.

85-90 Million a piece.

 

[WhyCry]

85-90 Million a piece.

Naked jets are coming at a $220 million a piece. Their research cost is estimated to be between 50-80 million a bird.