Dassault Rafale jets is it threat to pakistan air force?

[volatile]

Rafale is a threat specially the Spectra system is unique init self as it is giving tough time to both F22/F35 in war games the only fighter jet closed to shooting down F22 was Rafale .Having said this the threat word is a small word as wars are not won or loose over one weapon it is a combination of many ,IAF is probably looking to complement Mirages with Rafale since the same doctrine is for French Air Force . Mirages are important in A2G and Precision strikes specially the N Bombs so Rafale should be treated as Strategic weapon rather than fear weapon and if that time comes so threat will be for every one in SA i guess that day will see end to every organism on this land

 

[Arsalan 345]

Rafale is a big threat but I don't think that it's a much bigger threat than su-30s.indian su-30s are decent planes and it can reach anywhere in pakistan.we must buy twin engine jet.jf-17s are cool but it's not designed to reach deep inside indian territory.f-16s can handle su-30s but we have less f-16s and they have almost 270 su-30s.they have the advantage.

 

[khail007]

Between two rivals/enemies, any kind of weapon in possession of one is considered threat for other.
Same rule is applicable on countries which are in confrontation with each other.

 

[syed zia Hassan]

stand-off smart weapons and missiles, no no. I am not talking about that .. I mean Regular Fighter Jets to balance power and maintain Air force against enemy. for Example .. if you used F-6 against Mig-29 what happen you known the result. even regular Patrolling is also useless . That I mean ... Air superiority is my point my all Respectable members. You known the last Gulf War 1991 Iraq Iraqi Air force is much better then other Arab Air force because of the training of Pilots is better Mig-21-Mig-25. Mirage F-1, shot down U.S F-18s F-15, AV8b, F-111,Tornado,Harriers etc, but Allies force says its AAA fired .. but real truth iraqi not bad in Air to Air Combat. but they can not fight against Worlds Combine Modern fighter jets. its Suicide war.

 

[syed zia Hassan]

U.S Policy we known the history .. when U.S need a Allies they can do anything

In that time 1982s F-16s not for PAF as we know. But the other side was (U.S.S.R (.Russian) and Super power against super power but War ground was Pakistan and Afghanistan. So this time no clue for F-22 but only over night policy will be change that’s why I said F-22s is not impossible for PAFs.


Indian Air force . Under threat of F-16s is still .they having much better fighter jets but the F-16 threat is not over yet. Even U.S offer to made F-16s in India ..

 

[ziaulislam]

It doesn't need Rafales. Any plane will do the job, any plane that can carry such devices. The question is about the shape of Pakistan, remember? Every corner can be reached easily from well within Indian airspace. Every corner but Gwadar, possibly.

your are missing the point here

he meant is that since 196-98 deal of su 30MKI, india has only introduced rafale..in mid 2000s india had a force of 150+ su 30 MKI with no proven capablity on pakistan side

this has changed capability wise not only PAF completely changed its vintage f-16 through an expensive upgrade and procured new f-16s it also developed a reliable system with stand off weapons, anti ship and BVRs

the growth in PAF has been bigger than the growth in IAF..

IAF might have increased it strength by 100-150%(from 250 BVR fighters to 450)

but PAF by probably 300%(zero BVR fighters/4.5 gen fighters to 180 with two world re known BVRs system and stand off systems and long range anti ship weapon)
in early 2000s when we were desperate for f16s(paid billion of $ in 1990s when we were in IMF with econmy 5x times smaller than now) instead of walking away from them this time

yet PAF legs way behind IAF(before you start ...) but less than what it was

yes its threat for pakistan
1-more cheaply if we buys modern long range SAMs like HQ-9
2- and why you think that F-22 within the reach of PAF gives us the reason @syed zia Hassan F-22 has export ban from US govt they are not selling it to their closest allies like Israel and UK, forget about pakistan @syed zia Hassan chapter for buying US foighter jets in future is almost closed for pakistan @syed zia Hassan , there are some other options left on the table like J-10C, Mig-35 and J-16
3- project "AZM" is underway 5th gen indigenous stealth jet and do research PDF before creating a thread @syed zia Hassan

SAMs are neither cheap nor as tactical as aircraft

its better to buy 50 thunders rather than buying s300 at same cost provided if you have an option..otherwise you need some of both

with aircraft you cant hit, deter and respond, with SAM you have 50-60% chance of interception of vintage jet modern is worse, it can be neutralized with SEADs/stand off weapons

now why than people buy s300s.

its easier to setup provides a fear/detereance fatcor and is CHEAPER TO OPERATE

AS YOU NEED A BIG TRAINING SETUP FOR AIR FORCE..1990s gulf war proved that without training airforce is useless

stand-off smart weapons and missiles, no no. I am not talking about that .. I mean Regular Fighter Jets to balance power and maintain Air force against enemy. for Example .. if you used F-6 against Mig-29 what happen you known the result. even regular Patrolling is also useless . That I mean ... Air superiority is my point my all Respectable members. You known the last Gulf War 1991 Iraq Iraqi Air force is much better then other Arab Air force because of the training of Pilots is better Mig-21-Mig-25. Mirage F-1, shot down U.S F-18s F-15, AV8b, F-111,Tornado,Harriers etc, but Allies force says its AAA fired .. but real truth iraqi not bad in Air to Air Combat. but they can not fight against Worlds Combine Modern fighter jets. its Suicide war.

what will happen if use a gripen against su 27/mig29...

 

[Joe Shearer]

your are missing the point here

he meant is that since 196-98 deal of su 30MKI, india has only introduced rafale..in mid 2000s india had a force of 150+ su 30 MKI with no proven capablity on pakistan side

this has changed capability wise not only PAF completely changed its vintage f-16 through an expensive upgrade and procured new f-16s it also developed a reliable system with stand off weapons, anti ship and BVRs

the growth in PAF has been bigger than the growth in IAF..

IAF might have increased it strength by 100-150%(from 250 BVR fighters to 450)

but PAF by probably 300%(zero BVR fighters/4.5 gen fighters to 180 with two world re known BVRs system and stand off systems and long range anti ship weapon)
in early 2000s when we were desperate for f16s(paid billion of $ in 1990s when we were in IMF with econmy 5x times smaller than now) instead of walking away from them this time

yet PAF legs way behind IAF(before you start ...) but less than what it was


SAMs are neither cheap nor as tactical as aircraft

its better to buy 50 thunders rather than buying s300 at same cost provided if you have an option..otherwise you need some of both

with aircraft you cant hit, deter and respond, with SAM you have 50-60% chance of interception of vintage jet modern is worse, it can be neutralized with SEADs/stand off weapons

now why than people buy s300s.

its easier to setup provides a fear/detereance fatcor and is CHEAPER TO OPERATE

AS YOU NEED A BIG TRAINING SETUP FOR AIR FORCE..1990s gulf war proved that without training airforce is useless


what will happen if use a gripen against su 27/mig29...

That is what I was trying to explain; I was responding not to the original point, but to the point about Pakistan's elongated and rather shallow shape offering some advantages, whereas it equally offers some disadvantages as well.

your are missing the point here

he meant is that since 196-98 deal of su 30MKI, india has only introduced rafale..in mid 2000s india had a force of 150+ su 30 MKI with no proven capablity on pakistan side

this has changed capability wise not only PAF completely changed its vintage f-16 through an expensive upgrade and procured new f-16s it also developed a reliable system with stand off weapons, anti ship and BVRs

the growth in PAF has been bigger than the growth in IAF..

IAF might have increased it strength by 100-150%(from 250 BVR fighters to 450)

but PAF by probably 300%(zero BVR fighters/4.5 gen fighters to 180 with two world re known BVRs system and stand off systems and long range anti ship weapon)
in early 2000s when we were desperate for f16s(paid billion of $ in 1990s when we were in IMF with econmy 5x times smaller than now) instead of walking away from them this time

yet PAF legs way behind IAF(before you start ...) but less than what it was


SAMs are neither cheap nor as tactical as aircraft

its better to buy 50 thunders rather than buying s300 at same cost provided if you have an option..otherwise you need some of both

with aircraft you cant hit, deter and respond, with SAM you have 50-60% chance of interception of vintage jet modern is worse, it can be neutralized with SEADs/stand off weapons

now why than people buy s300s.

its easier to setup provides a fear/detereance fatcor and is CHEAPER TO OPERATE

AS YOU NEED A BIG TRAINING SETUP FOR AIR FORCE..1990s gulf war proved that without training airforce is useless


what will happen if use a gripen against su 27/mig29...

The Gripen has a good chance in air combat against a MiG 29; that model of MiG is not a big deal. The Russians themselves consider that a failure. Against the Su30 (the Su27 as delivered to India), again, there is a good chance. The difference between these different models arises when one enters the field of stealth, of low visiblility; otherwise, on its day, there is a narrow difference between modern jet fighters.

The PAF is still quite a formidable force. The problem is that with increasing economic strain, keeping up will be difficult for Pakistan. The problem lies there, not with the planes or with the pilots.

 

[!eon]

It doesn't need Rafales. Any plane will do the job, any plane that can carry such devices. The question is about the shape of Pakistan, remember? Every corner can be reached easily from well within Indian airspace. Every corner but Gwadar, possibly.

When I say Pakistan's AEW&C can't survive more than a week during war, fanboys want to skin me alive.
And I would not rule out usage of Afghanistan's land and airspace by Indian forces in present day situation, so every corner is well in reach and it is happening today, only patriots and fanboys can't see.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Yes. It is a serious concern for PAF. In fact, like many members have said that every plane in IAF is a threat. Solution. Well, Pakistan is in a very peculiar position viz a viz India as far as acquiring new fighters is concerned due to multiple reasons ranging from economic to foreign policy etc.
But the good thing is now PAF has opted for the only durable solution for it i.e. indigenization. As much as possible. JF-17 is not an answer to every problem; certainly, it is not! Because it is not designed as Tier-1 fighter rather it is evolving into one due to the compulsion of time but for Thunder to be evolved as Tier-1 fighter jet, it will have to go beyond Block-III which itself is going to take 3 years before becoming the active part of PAF. Block III will join the PAF around the same time when Rafale will enter IAF in sizeable numbers. PAF will need to convert existing blocks to block III while at the same time preparing upgrades specifically designed to overcome Rafale challenge. And of course, Project Azm must be a national level priority exactly like our nuclear program once was if we really need to get out of current predicament viz a viz Indian air force threats. No one will come to fight our wars, more than anyone else, Pakistan's political elite must understand this.

 

[Maxpane]

What paf is doing to counter it?

 

[Fledgingwings]

It doesn't need Rafales. Any plane will do the job, any plane that can carry such devices. The question is about the shape of Pakistan, remember? Every corner can be reached easily from well within Indian airspace. Every corner but Gwadar, possibly.

Same goes for india.and its just a matter of time.

 

[Basel]

It doesn't need Rafales. Any plane will do the job, any plane that can carry such devices. The question is about the shape of Pakistan, remember? Every corner can be reached easily from well within Indian airspace. Every corner but Gwadar, possibly.

You think Pakistani defense is that week that it will allow IAF to roam around over Pakistani air space freely, kindly update your knowledge about Pakistani air defense first.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Same goes for india.and its just a matter of time.

How is that relevant when considering the shape of Pakistan?

 

[Windjammer]

Albeit, the PAF checked out the Rafale a decade earlier and even had the opportunity to exercise with and against it, ironically the PAF still opted for the F-16 Block-52s. (Pakistan Flag imposed)

http://www.arabnews.com/node/283018

https://pk.ambafrance.org/Exercises-between-French-and

 

[Joe Shearer]

You think Pakistani defense is that week that it will allow IAF to roam around over Pakistani air space freely, kindly update your knowledge about Pakistani air defense first.

Did you even understand the discussion?

It was about not ever having to come into Pakistani airspace.

Before being overcome by these spasms of patriotic fervour, please read what is going on.