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Creation of Bangladesh

You indicate that you have no perception of what is written. Please check my post before you slander.

You are a typical mutton headed individual who shoots off this mouth without reading the content!



it does not matter to me from which side you speak.

What mater is the content!

Out of all that this is all u saw? What a joke, picking out a tiny section of wat was there. My perception of what is written is right in the post of over 800 words The problem is that u are so pathetic that u are trying to avoid evrything thats there. Don't give me a bunch of crap and say sumthing useful.

I replied to all the stuff that u wrote and don't think that by pulling out a single line f4m that huge post u will be able to make me luk like a fool. U are the mutton-headed individual cauz this proves u haven't read the post bcuz perhaps the first line brought tears to ur eyes. Yeah i used humor and sarcasm but that dus'nt mean i am not making a point. That qoute is relevent to what you said. Even the order is perfect. 1 goes with 1... 2 goes with 2... Yeh don't run ur mouth off bf4 u knw wat u are saying.

Try to answer the post rather than being such a pathetic loser and ignoring everything thats there. Cauz right now u are presenting urself as an idiot by totally ignoring evrything in the post just like u ignore Indias problems, issues and questions u cannot answer while babbling off about pakistans.
 
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I did not read the other stuff.

With due regards to you, my attention span on your posts vary.

I am not known for what you attribute to me.
 
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Skewing the history of rape in 1971 A prescription for reconciliation?

Nayanika Mookherjee runs a critical eye over Sarmila Bose's controversial analysis of the violence committed during the Liberation War

This is a discussion of Sarmila Bose's article: "Anatomy of Violence: Analysis of Civil War in East Pakistan in 1971" (EPW, Oct 8, 2005). A version of this paper was first presented by Dr Bose at a two-day conference, on June 28-29, 2005, organized by the historian branch of the United States Department of State titled "South Asia in Crisis: United States Policy, 1961-1972." This was arranged to mark the release of declassified US records relating to the theme of the conference.

As an Indian working in Bangladesh for nearly a decade on the public memories of sexual violence during the Bangladesh war of 1971, I was particularly struck by the author's use of the phrase "civil war" to refer to the Bangladesh war. Most Bangladeshis denounce the use of the term "civil war" to refer to the Bangladesh war as it deflects attention from its genocidal connotations.Instead, they semantically and politically distinguish the Bangladesh war as either muktijuddho (liberation war) or shadhinotar juddho(independence war).

It is also important to note that occurring at the juncture of Cold War politics, with the United States government supporting Pakistan during 1971, and the Indian government assisting the East Pakistani guerrilla fighters, the genocidal connotations of the Bangladesh war remains unacknowledged, till date. The use of the phrase "civil war" in the title of the article suggests that the author was in agreement with the Pakistani and US government's version of events of 1971. Yet the paper was claiming to provide "an impartial account." I was intrigued.

Through what Bose refers to as "case studies," she tries to highlight how violence was inflicted by both sides -- the Pakistani army and the East Pakistani liberation fighters -- during the 1971 war. She also refers to the lack of incidents of rape during the Bangladesh war in her "cases" in a small paragraph found at the end of her long article. She suggests a prescription for reconciliation through an acknowledgement of violence inflicted by all parties involved.

Soon after the Washington conference, the points made in her paper were promptly picked up by the Pakistani newspapers: The Daily Times (Hasan, June 30,2005; Editorial, July 2, 2005) and Dawn (Iqbal, July 7, 2005). Both refer to the violence inflicted by both sides, and the absence of rape during the Bangladesh war. The entry on Sarmila Bose in Wikipedia, the popular internet encyclopedia, reiterates only the brief paragraph on rape.

In a response to Uttorshuri, a Bangladeshi web mail group, on July 2, 2005, Bose said: "The heading given to the Daily Times, Pakistan, report is incorrect and not the finding of my study." Her work unleashed a barrage of criticism in Bangladesh and her research methods have been attacked as being shoddy and biased.

Collingwood (1945) has shown that historical "facts" are the reconstitution of the past in the historian's minds, involving the selection and interpretation of the past, as history is the choice of a particular expository style that is itself determined historically.

My discussion of Bose's article here, nearly ten months after the publication of her article in EPW, is an attempt to show the various responses to Bose's work, her response to these feedbacks and to highlight Bose's expository style which is appropriated by varied configurations.

In this discussion, I critically address Bose's exposition about: a) violence being inflicted on both sides, b) the lack of instances of rape in her "cases," and c) interrogate her formulation of reconciliation and highlight its implications on sub-continental politics.

Violence inflicted on both sides
All parties involved are shown to "commit acts of brutality outside accepted norms of warfare, and all had their share of humanity …with Bengalis, Biharis and West Pakistanis helping one another in the midst of mayhem," in Bose's article. This is evidenced by the Pakistan army targeting adult males while sparing women and children. However, local Bengali "loyalists"/collaborators, and not the Pakistani army, are involved in inflicting violence on their fellow Bengalis and the killing of intellectuals.

According to these accounts the Pakistani army did not inflict all the violence. This decontextualized account of Bengali collaborators does not recognize the triggers and advantages that the presence of, and collaboration with, the Pakistani army created. It misses the analytical point that in all wars local collaborators become the indispensable foot-soldiers of the institutionalized military paraphernalia.

The Pakistani army is portrayed as kind, but violent when provoked, whereas the Bengalis inflict violence "for unfathomable reasons." The situation in Bangladesh during 1971 is described through phrases like: "widespread lawlessness during March," "encouraged to break the law," "urban terrorism," and "rebels."

The treatment of the Pakistani army namely: "refusal of Bengalis to sell them food and fuel, being jeered and spat at … and the widespread disregard of curfew orders, murder of army personnel," are not considered to be examples of resistance and opposition, but are cited as instances of the suffering of the Pakistani army and an exhibition of "extraordinary restraint of the army under provocation."

The "rule of law" remains with the Pakistani army as they "secure" and "gain control" over territories. Army reaction is cited as "overwhelming" while the rebels are "disorganised and amateurish" who for "unfathomable reasons … take pot-shots at the advancing units in the bazaar which triggered an overwhelming reaction from the army."

There is no commentary on the contestations that exist in Bangladesh in relation to the varied national narratives of 1971. As a result, the observation by the former liberation fighter Iqbal: "This must be the only country in the world where there are two views on the independence of the country," remains unanalysed.

As in-depth reading of various critical literature on war and violence (Butalia 1998; Das 1995; Nordstrom 2004) would show liberation and independence of countries are not homogenous narratives, and contain within their folds multiple contesting interrogations of wars through which countries become free. This is more so the case in Bangladesh (Hitchens 2001), given its fractured histories of partitions and independence.

Also, Nixon's reference to Bangladesh as the "place" remains uncommented upon. This article, which was first presented in a conference hosted by the US department of State, is particularly conspicuous in the absence of any critical examination of the US support for Pakistan's role in the Bangladesh war of 1971, in the context of Cold War calculations.

The article is helpful in addressing the ethnicization of the army as "Punjabis," and in bringing out some of the nuances of the Pakistani army. That wars and conflicts are rife with instances of violence, kindness, cowardice, complicity, contradictions by the same individuals is not anything new and has been highlighted by various feminists, critical researchers and filmmakers within Bangladesh (Akhtar et al. 2001; Choudhury 2001; Kabir 2003; Masud 1999, 2000).

They show the multiple, contradictory, subjectivities of the Bangladesh war experience, and the violence inflicted upon the poor, women, Biharis, and adivasis. In my own work, I have encountered similar complicities and contradictions. Rather than citing these experiences as ahistorical and apolitical "facts," they need to be located at the crossroads of local and national politics and histories.

The earlier mentioned formulation by Collingwood is significant here. In her other writings, Bose has attempted to go beyond Indo-Pakistani enmities. She highlights the various symbolic roles of a flag, and the possible repercussions of possessing a Pakistani flag in India (Bose 2003). In the Christian Science Monitor she argues (Bose and Milam 2005) in support of the sale of F-16s to Pakistan as a stabilizing factor within world and sub-continental geo-politics. In the EPW article, the nature of her expository style and presentation of "facts" make her "cases" representative of war-time experiences of all in Bangladesh.

Skewing the history of rape
The small paragraph, located in the last page of the article, relating to the absence of rape in the "cases" has been highlighted as evidence that the Pakistani army did not rape. In her response to Uttorshuri, Bose says: "The issue of rape amounted to about 100 words out of a nearly 6,500 word paper on the subject of patterns of violence in 1971." An issue as contentious as the "patterns" of violence of rape can be claimed to be absent, through only 100 words! Bose explicates: "As I pointed out in the discussion that followed, there is evidence elsewhere that rape certainly occurred in 1971. But it seems -- from this study and other works -- that it may not have occurred in all the instances it is alleged to have occurred."

Bose's comment that rapes did occur elsewhere in 1971 is absent in her EPW article. In it she emphasizes the need to distinguish between the instances where rape occurred and where it did not. Throughout, it shows that the Bengalis raped Biharis while the Pakistani army did not rape anyone during the war. Also, it is not very clear which "cases" are being referred to in the statement: the rapes "may not have occurred in all the instances they are alleged to have occurred." Rather than this generalized statement, it would have been more transparent scholarship to cite the specific "cases" where the rapes were alleged which the research instead finds, is absent.

Bose shows, in the case of "mutinies" by "rebels," that "there was assault and abduction" of women. The Pakistani army however, "always" targeted adult males while sparing women and children. The Hamdoodur Rahman Commission (2000) established by the Pakistani government, while referring to the attack and rape of pro-Pakistani elements by Bengalis, also cites various instances of rape.

Eyewitness accounts can also be found in the eighth volume of the Dolil (Rahman 1982-85: 106, 192, 385). There is literature from the 1970s (Greer 1972; Brownmiller 1975) and recent scholarship and films based on oral history from within Bangladesh (Akhtar 2001; Choudhury 2001; Guhathakurta 1996; Ibrahim 1994, 1995; Kabir 2003; Masud 2000) which shows that the Pakistani army committed rapes and highlights the complexities of these violent encounters. Bose makes no reference to any of these documentations.

Recently, in Bangladesh, various women from different socio-economic backgrounds have narrated their violent experiences of rape by the Pakistani army and local collaborators. The well-known sculptor, Ferdousy Priyobhashini, has been vocal about her war-time experiences and the role of Pakistani army and Bengalis. My own work with various women who were raped during the war shows the contradictions of the war-time experiences while highlighting their violent encounters. All these documentations emerge as important counter-narratives to the various prevalent Bangladeshi nationalist accounts of the war.

Emphasizing these war-time contradictions is not tantamount to a denial of the incidents of rape perpetrated by Pakistani army and their local collaborators.

A prescription for reconciliation?
Reconciliation, according to Bose, is possible through an acknowledgement of violence inflicted by all parties involved. However, for her, this is hinged on an unequal reliance on literally accepting the various viewpoints of the Pakistani army and administration, drawn from secondary sources (only one interview with General Niazi is briefly quoted).

While referring to the innumerable publications on 1971 as a "cottage industry," Bose seems to negate the emotive expressions of her informants as "the cultivation of an unhealthy victim culture" and a "ghoulish competition with six million Jews in order to gain international attention." This highlights a lack of empathy with her informants, and insensitivity to their comprehension of violence.

Primo Levi's work on Auschwitz shows that individuals who have encountered and survived violence make various complicated, competitive and contradictory negotiations to inhabit their survival and "victimhood." Here, Bangladeshi testimonials are ironically the means through which war-time narratives are negated.

The various individual accounts of violence, in turn, become muted with the prescription of "reconciliation." Significantly, for many Bangladeshis, "reconciliation" has a jarring resonance, as it is perceived to be the objective of various war-time collaborators, who are currently rehabilitated in the Bangladeshi political landscape.

Seen only as a "place" (Nixon), a "basket case" (Kissinger), Bangladesh is stereotypically viewed internationally, and in South Asia, as a country ravaged only by poverty, floods, cyclones and, hence, in need of the saviour, interventionist, developmental paradigms.

Here, Bangladeshi histories and politics are again delegitimized as a result of sub-continental dynamics, as there is no engagement with the wider picture in Bangladesh.

The expositions in this article itself stand in the way of reconciliation between Bangladesh and Pakistan, and cannot provide a prescription to resolve these hostilities. War-time contradictions, complicities, nuances can be highlighted without negating the foundational violence of the history of rape of the Bangladesh war perpetrated by the Pakistani army and the local collaborators.

While the Bangladesh war might be a "civil war," or Indo-Pakistan war for India and Pakistan, for most Bangladeshis it is the war of liberation and independence, even though that liberation might be interrogated in post-colonial Bangladesh. Only by recentring the issues which concern Bangladesh, along with highlighting the contradictions of wartime experiences, rather than proffering an argument which caters to Indo-Pakistan geo-political concerns, could one help the cause of reconciliation between Pakistan and Bangladesh.

This piece is adapted from "Bangladesh War of 1971: A Prescription for Reconciliation?" EPW, Vol. 41 No 36: 3901-3903. We have reprinted it here by special arrangement with EPW due to the intense interest within Bangladesh generated by the original Bose article that Dr Mookherjee discusses.

Dr Nayanika Mookherjee is a Lecturer in the Sociology Department in Lancaster University and a Research Fellow for the Society of South Asian Studies, British Academy.

References
Akhtar, Shaheen, Suraiya Begum, Hameeda Hossain, Sultana Kamal, and Meghna Guhathakurta, eds. 2001. Narir Ekattor O Juddhoporoborti Koththo Kahini (Oral History Accounts of Women's Experiences During 1971 and After the War). Dhaka: Ain-O-Shalish-Kendro (ASK).

Bose, Sarmila. 2005. "Anatomy of Violence: Analysis of Civil War in East Pakistan in 1971," Economic and Political Weekly, October 8, 2005.http://www.epw.org.in/showArticles.php?root=2005&leaf=10&filename=9223&filetype=html

Bose, Sarmila and WB Milam. 2005. "The Right Stuff: F-16s to Pakistan is Wise Decision." Christian Science Monitor, April 11, 2005. The right stuff: F-16s to Pakistan is wise decision | csmonitor.com

Bose, Sarmila. 2003. "What's in a Flag?" The Daily Times (Pakistan), September 23, 2003. What's in a flag? By Sarmila Bose

Brownmiller, Susan. 1975. Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape, pp. 78-86. London: Secker & Warburg.

Butalia, Urvashi. 1998. The Other Side of Silence: Voices from the Partition of India. New Delhi: Viking Penguin India.

Collingwood, RG. 1945. The Idea of History. Oxford: Clarendon Press.

Das, Veena. 1995. Critical Events, pp. 55-83. Delhi: Oxford University Press.

Greer, Germaine. 1972. "The Rape of the Bengali Women." Sunday Times, April 9, 1972.

Hamdoodur Rahman Commission of Enquiry. 1971. Published in August 2000. Pakistan Government.

Guhathakurta, Meghna. 1996. "Dhorshon Ekti Juddhaporadh" (Rape is a War Crime). Dhaka: Bulletin of Ain-O-Shalish Kendra (ASK), February 6-8.

Hasan, K. 2005. "Army Not Involved in 1971 Rapes." June 30, 2005. Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Hitchens, Christopher. 2001. The Trial of Henry Kissinger. London: Verso.

Ibrahim, Nilima. 1994-5. Ami Birangona Bolchi (This is the "War-Heroine" Speaking), 2 Volumes. Dhaka: Jagriti.

Iqbal, Anwar. 2005. "Sheikh Mujib Wanted a Confederation: US Papers." July 7, 2005. Sheikh Mujib wanted a confederation: US papers -DAWN - National; July 7, 2005

Levi, Primo. 1996. Survival in Auschwitz: The Nazi Assault on Humanity. Translated from the Italian by Stuart Wolf. New York: Touchstone Books.

Mookherjee, Nayanika. (forthcoming). Specters and Utopias: Sexual Violence, Public Memories and the Bangladesh War of 1971. Durham: Duke University Press.

Mookherjee, Nayanika. 2006. "Remembering to Forget: Public Secrecy and Memory of Sexual Violence in Bangladesh." Journal of Royal Anthropological Institute (JRAI), 12 (2), June 2006: pp. 433-450.

Mookherjee, Nayanika. 2004. "My Man (Honour) is Lost but I Still Gave my Iman (Principle): Sexual Violence and Articulations of Masculinity." South Asian Masculinities. R Chopra, C Osella and F Osella, eds. New Delhi: Kali for Women: pp. 131-159.

Nordstrom, Carolyn. 2004. Shadows of War: Violence, Power, and International Profiteering in the Twenty-First Century. California Series in Public Anthropology, University of California Press.

Rahman, Hasan H, ed. (1982-1985). Bangladesher Shadhinota Juddho Dolilpotro (Documents of the Bangladesh Independence War). Sixteen Volumes. Dhaka: People's Republic of Bangladesh, Information Ministry.

Films

Choudhury, Afsan. 2001. Tahader Juddho (Their War).

Kabir, Yasmin. 2003. Shadhinota (A Certain Freedom).

Masud, Tareque and Catherine Masud. 1999. Muktir Katha. (Words of Freedom). Dhaka: Audiovision.

Masud, Tareque and Catherine Masud. 2000. Women and War. Dhaka: Ain-O-Shalish-Kendra (ASK) and Audiovision.

Web-sites
Discussion Forum: Story of Pakistan http://www.storyofpakistan.com/discforum/t...d=11&page=1

Drishtipat: Sarmila Bose Rewrites history of Bangladesh

IndPride: Sarmila Bose: In Praise of Pakistan INDPRIDE

The Daily Times (Pakistan), July 2, 2005. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_2-7 2005_pg3_1

US Department of State South Asia in Crisis: United States Policy, 1961-1972 June 28-29, 2005, Loy Henderson Auditorium, Tentative Program. Conference Agenda

Uttorshuri: "Revisionist Historian on Rapes of 1971," July 2, 2005.
Yahoo! Groups

Wikipedia: Sarmila Bose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can you summarize this?
 
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Z.A.B was known for his corruption and suppression of political opponents, his cheap nationalization schemes and force used with balochis is wat we still pay for...

Almost every politician in South Asia is corrupt.

I don't know who he suppressed, but for sure he was suppressed in the end.

Attrobuting the Baloch problem to him is nonsense. If it were him, it would have ended by now. Foreign interference has caused the problem, not Pakistani leaders.

ya it was'nt genocide as there is no evidence west wanted to eliminate all bengalis but too much force was used to contain the east rather than peace.

Ludicrous. Using peace against people that had declared war on you the day before would not work. There is no evidence West Pakistan wanted to eliminate ANY Bengalis. You find me solid evidence that West Pakistani forces were not looking for rebels in any of their actions. Even Niazi was in favour of not cracking down too hard on any rebels.

"The execution of “Operation Searchlight” on March 25-26 by the newly arrived Governor General Tikka Khan, was condemned by Lt Gen A A K Niazi, who arrived in April as commander of the Eastern Command, as a violation of the mission and equivalent to the Jallianwalabagh massacre in the Punjab by the British in 1919. He said it made his task of regaining control of the province infinitely harder by provoking widespread mutiny among Bengali officers and men and turning virtually the entire population hostile.14"

With the exception of those two days, I doubt there was much excessive force used. If excessive force was used for revenge or other reasons, it was done by the Bengalis and Razakhars generally.

U say i dunno wat i'm talkin abt, open ur eyes this is wat evry site and article says, even our own

So if every person in the world says you're not human, but are in fact a rabbit, you will believe them. "Our" own articles do not say this. "Our" own articles quote the Hamdoor Report which does NOT say any genocide was committed, simply that bad apples existed within the PA, just like any other armed forces. This is more accountability than any Muktihi Bahini soldier ever got.

and then u give no evidence that mujib made plans f4 liberation long bf4, get evidence and i'll be the first to believe... ok, thats enough lets not fight with each other and be a target f4 the "tigers"...

There is plenty of evidence Mujib had plans for liberation long before. When were his 6 points formulated?
 
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I did not read the other stuff.

With due regards to you, my attention span on your posts vary.

I am not known for what you attribute to me.

Well that proves my point anyway. U cannot answer any of my questions so u are seeking to avoid them. Dodging its called and its not the first time u are doing it. That is why i think of you as a pathetic loser.

What happened? Am i proving only too well that indian purposes for joining the war weren't clean. You did not join the war because u had love for the Bahini's or East Pakistanis. U hated them as much as you hated west Pakistan. You wanted land, power and resources and this gave u a chance to do that. That is exactly why you took all that land from them and infact joined the war. We all know the truth. You want to keep the conversation on Pakistan cauz u cannot deny it. Okay, fine continue...Your policy of not admitting mistakes and ignoring problems as irrelevent is pathetic enough to create another Pakistan. Atleast we learnt from our mistakes but you are not! Ur attitude proves it!
 
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:hitwall: Roadrunner, where are u from? Why do u only see me in this whole thread? Aren't there enough indians to hold ur attention? We can discuss Z.A.B. later. Take my msn i.d. and we can talk about it all day but not on this forum. Happy?:wave:
 
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Well that proves my point anyway. U cannot answer any of my questions so u are seeking to avoid them. Dodging its called and its not the first time u are doing it. That is why i think of you as a pathetic loser.

What happened? Am i proving only too well that indian purposes for joining the war weren't clean. You did not join the war because u had love for the Bahini's or East Pakistanis. U hated them as much as you hated west Pakistan. You wanted land, power and resources and this gave u a chance to do that. That is exactly why you took all that land from them and infact joined the war. We all know the truth. You want to keep the conversation on Pakistan cauz u cannot deny it. Okay, fine continue...Your policy of not admitting mistakes and ignoring problems as irrelevent is pathetic enough to create another Pakistan. Atleast we learnt from our mistakes but you are not! Ur attitude proves it!

LOL first don't call people names aite,..
(Koi naa Salim I'm behind you)

What were the Pakistani purpose to join Khalistan all Sikhs know very well.....
But thats another point...

Regards to hating west pakistan yes I hate the people who divided countries, hate the people who are still dividing irresp of their allegiance..Indians donot accept Pakistan as their friend though as for the countrymen of Pakistan there is no hate but only love...

As for 1971..

India first opened borders to allow refugees from bangladesh to come in and the 10mn+ who came in were causing financial hardships...
Indians still have affinity for their lost countrymen like Bangladeshi and Pakistani, you will have difficult in understanding cause you were not born here....
As the economic costs were increasing Indians decided to arm the freedom fighters and give 'em economic support...


For further information please read

http://www.subcontinent.com/1971war/origins.html

"This site was awarded a Times Pick by the Los Angeles Times on 8/14/97."
 
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:hitwall: Roadrunner, where are u from? Why do u only see me in this whole thread? Aren't there enough indians to hold ur attention? We can discuss Z.A.B. later. Take my msn i.d. and we can talk about it all day but not on this forum. Happy?:wave:

If a Bharati says something correct, I'll agree with him. If they say something wrong I'll disagree with them. If you say something wrong I'll disagree with you. I'm pretty neutral in all this. Even Pakistanis do not need one single opinion about everything. In your case, you have the wrong opinion about the '71 war, there was no genocide in the slightest, the 3 million figure (and even the 300,000 figure) is nonsense, and it doesn't matter what every single site says..there are 150 million Pakistanis in the world, one and a quarter billion Bengalis and Bharatis. With more than 7 times as many people, who will you expect to have the most sites?
 
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LOL first don't call people names aite,..
(Koi naa Salim I'm behind you)

What were the Pakistani purpose to join Khalistan all Sikhs know very well.....
But thats another point...

Regards to hating west pakistan yes I hate the people who divided countries, hate the people who are still dividing irresp of their allegiance..Indians donot accept Pakistan as their friend though as for the countrymen of Pakistan there is no hate but only love...

And you just demonstrate a previous point I made. Pakistan is part of Bhaaratvarsha and all the extremist Bharatis would like to see it united back. it's not possible, but Bangladesh is possible to do so since it lacks any decent military.

As for 1971..

India first opened borders to allow refugees from bangladesh to come in and the 10mn+ who came in were causing financial hardships...
Indians still have affinity for their lost countrymen like Bangladeshi and Pakistani, you will have difficult in understanding cause you were not born here....
As the economic costs were increasing Indians decided to arm the freedom fighters and give 'em economic support...

At least you admit you armed the Bangladeshis at some point, though it's a well known fact you armed them well before the war.

I don't buy the economic cost thing at all. Pakistan is home to at least 4 million refugees. Its population is 150 million. Bharat in 1971 had around 600 million people, they should have the capacity to look after around 16 million refugees back then, but they had trouble with 10 million! Why is it one country can maintain support to 4 million over years but the other can't support less refugees over months only?
 
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Dimension,

Rantings and personal opinions really makes no difference to me.

If it gives you glee that you have scored brownie points, so be it.

Do produce something mind tickling and I will answer. Mundane and plebeian claptrap actually does not excite. Or the same idea with a new veneer!

You will notice there is another person who does not warrant a reply. There are many others to do the needful.

Some posts reminds me of Pinocchio.
 
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LOL first don't call people names aite,..
(Koi naa Salim I'm behind you)

What were the Pakistani purpose to join Khalistan all Sikhs know very well.....
But thats another point...

Regards to hating west pakistan yes I hate the people who divided countries, hate the people who are still dividing irresp of their allegiance..Indians donot accept Pakistan as their friend though as for the countrymen of Pakistan there is no hate but only love...

As for 1971..

India first opened borders to allow refugees from bangladesh to come in and the 10mn+ who came in were causing financial hardships...
Indians still have affinity for their lost countrymen like Bangladeshi and Pakistani, you will have difficult in understanding cause you were not born here....
As the economic costs were increasing Indians decided to arm the freedom fighters and give 'em economic support...


For further information please read

http://www.subcontinent.com/1971war/origins.html

"This site was awarded a Times Pick by the Los Angeles Times on 8/14/97."

Yeah i know u gyz hated us and still hate us... as if its sumthing new!

You guys needed an excuse to attack Pakistan! Economic costs was a good one! Pakistan struck first was another good one! Economic costs rising? U had fewer refugees than pakistan has now... Wat u sayin? :woot: Economic costs were high so u decided to give the bahinis arms support and use more of ur resources to arm them and train them. Well weren't those economic costs then?

That is why u took all those refugees in. So that the bangalis and bahinis turned towards u and looked at you as saviors.

Well my parents were born in India... Affinity to lost countrymen, oh i understand, u luved pakistanis so much and wanted them to be ur freinds, that is why u supported the bahinis because it would create peace in the region and lasting gudwill... it was the jungles... sorry indias peacefulness that brought them into the war... i see.

U shud say affinity to pakistani land and affinity to punish the pakistani people for breaking with india. That was ur affinity! that proves what i said. That indians <man-eating tigers according to salim> were filled with rage for losing Pakistan and all that land and wanted to get back. It was time for vengeance... so u decided to get back by freeing bangladesh and u cud take some of its land on the premise that u helped them against Pakistan.
 
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India first opened borders to allow refugees from bangladesh to come in and the 10mn+ who came in were causing financial hardships...
Indians still have affinity for their lost countrymen like Bangladeshi and Pakistani, you will have difficult in understanding cause you were not born here....
As the economic costs were increasing Indians decided to arm the freedom fighters and give 'em economic support...

I think it was actually India's intention to dismember Pakistan from the time of partition and especially during the 1960's that resulted in intervention in 1971.
 
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Thats a really big statement which I doubt the majority of Bangladeshis would approve. What benefit would Bangladesh have derived from joining India?

Exactly! Bangladesh was with us in its fight for independence from india... why would Bangladesh go back and out of the way to join India? :D Bangladesh shud have joined india... hahaha! come on we all know how minorities are treated in india. All the people in my family back there are totally unhappy! Just taking a look at Kashmir will let u gyz know how u'd be treated. Its the only place where there is a larger minority than the majority and they suffer absolute oppression!

India was just there to steal from Bangladesh... and see a weaker Pakistan. they wanted to get land and they did get land did'nt they... they took the richest lands which should have belonged to u gyz! they did NOT have sum "divine purpose" in helping Bangladesh... that is clear. It was simply an opportunity for them to strike as pakistan was involved in a civil-war and was preoccupied. They hated east as much as west Pak...

Its gud to see that many here see the truth!
 
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LOL first don't call people names aite,..
(Koi naa Salim I'm behind you)

What were the Pakistani purpose to join Khalistan all Sikhs know very well.....
But thats another point...

Regards to hating west pakistan yes I hate the people who divided countries, hate the people who are still dividing irresp of their allegiance..Indians donot accept Pakistan as their friend though as for the countrymen of Pakistan there is no hate but only love...

As for 1971..

India first opened borders to allow refugees from bangladesh to come in and the 10mn+ who came in were causing financial hardships...
Indians still have affinity for their lost countrymen like Bangladeshi and Pakistani, you will have difficult in understanding cause you were not born here....
As the economic costs were increasing Indians decided to arm the freedom fighters and give 'em economic support...


For further information please read

http://www.subcontinent.com/1971war/origins.html

"This site was awarded a Times Pick by the Los Angeles Times on 8/14/97."


The Pakistani purpose to support Khalistan movement was to liberte you(sikhs).after all East Punjab is a neighbouring province and you were in trouble when your loving Indian Government attacked "Golden Temple".

Now i am proud of my Country for helping Sikhs in their time of need.:pakistan:
 
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