Creation of Bangladesh: Shining Moment or Strategic Blunder

[integra]

Dear Eastwatch,

@ I fully agree with your points. Infact, I became interested in this topic that is "In search of Bengali Muslim identity", when I was in Bosnia back in 1994 while I was serving in a NGO. At that time I was trying to understand how such a large people of Bosnia became a muslim(at the heart of Europe). I was reading a book named "Islamization of Bosnia" by one British writer. Then it strike my mind, "How we became muslim in Bengal". Since than for the last 16 years I am studying and re-searching on this topic. Since than I visited all the places of muslim Saints
like Sylhet, Bagerhat, Chittagong, Rajshahi, Bagha(Rajshahi) and Mastangarg(Bogra) and collected lot of choti books written by local people.

@ So after reading these books besides other historical books I have come to the conclusion that we the Bengalies are not a homogeneous nation rather hetogeneous nation. After serving so many years in various disputed areas of the world specially Europe and Africa, where I have seen many ethnic cleansing I now say that Blood matters a lot on human behaviour and as a whole on a nation. Only for this reason we as a nation cannot be united. Now, from my side lets analysis the history of our country. As a Bengali nation we were never united.

* When Khiljee invaded Bengal the Hindu king at Nadia just flade away without fighting, so we came under Islamic rather Turkish dominion.

* When British came at the battle of Pallassay(1757), Seraj Dullah, Mir Modan and Mohal Lal fought and the bulk of the Seraj's fighting force betrayed with him.

* The struggle of Titu Mir against British and local zaminders remained localised at greater district of Barishal, other districts remained a silent spectators.

* The rebolt of Fakir Maznu Shah against the East India Company was concentrated at greater district of Rangpur,Dinajpur and Bogra.

* Initially once the East India came to Bengal the Hindus collaberated and Muslims opposed. Once the Hindus revolted against the British we(Muslims) collaberated with British. Like Surjo Sen, Pretilota and Khudiram once these people started struggle against the British muslims wholeheardedly collaberated with British. During the Second World War once Shubash Chandra Bosh flade away and formed "Azad Hind Fouz", A K Fuzlul Huq was chosen as the war Chief Minister of Bengal. During that time most of muslims supported the British and joined in the British forces.

* Even in 1971, we always say that 7.5 crores of Bengali people fought with the Pakistani forces but was it really true? So far I know, around 1 crores of Bengalies flade to India but out of this around 90 lacs were Hindus and rest 10 lacs were muslims. Who all these 10 lacs were they? They were the Army, Police, EPR, Students , AL members and their families and the bulk people remained inside East Pakistan and collabereded with the Pakistan Army. In my villages only 6 men and 1 female went to India. Out of this 7, one was doing AL politics, the female was his wife, one was serving in the EPR(died) and other 3 were college going student and doing leftist politics.


Finally I may conclude that we the Bengalies are the hetogenous nation, we had been divided, we are divided and we will remain divided in future and that's why there will hardly be any development in our country. All these is because of the blood.

I respect your thoughts but thats a really stupid conclusion you've made there . So many countries are not united but still going strong. Things are changing this days as previously from your generation(no disrespect) they thought everything will be done by the government nowadays (for the last 10 years) people are gradually understanding that private investors can change the country. Whoever is in power I think you'll see a massive change in the next 10 years.

 

[akash57]

Dear Akash57,

@ Donnot under-estimate these "Saints, Pir, Faker and Mashaik". It was due to them we the people of Bengal became a muslim. They had a great contribution regarding the speedy spread of Islim in Bengal even well before the invasion of Muslim General like Iktiar Uddin Muhammad Bktiar Khiljee

@ Do you ever thought how you became muslim? Why so many muslims in and around in Bengal ? If you look into the history you would find that you are in the following catagory:

* Either you forefather were hindu,
* Or they were Buddish,
* Or Animist,
* Or pure migration from Arab,Central Asia, Persia,Turan, Afgan etc.
* Or mixture of above.
@ Bangladesh is a land of Saint. I can't remember all the names few of them are Shah Sultan Burlhi Mahi Sawar of Mastangar(Bogra), Khan Jahan Ali of Bagerghat, Shah Jalal of Sylhet, Shah Mokdom of Rajshahi and many others.

@ Another most important issue, apparently most of the people believed that we the Bangalese became muslim from the Hindus and we are homogeneous but in the true sense if you criticaly analysis the historical facts then you would see that we became muslims from the Buddish and not from Hindus. Of course there were many Hindus who converted to muslims but their no is not that much. Due to the existance of big and large rivers in Bangladesh it became a safe heaven for most of the muslim fugitives in this continent even there are evidences that some of the followers of Ummayyat Dynesty flade from Iraq and took shelter in Bengal. In Bengal you will find the blood of Phathans, Afghan, Persia, Central Asia, Turkish, Arabs and Abbissinia.Blood matter's a lot on a nation. In one estimate it is said that about 55% of Bengal people are having a foreign muslim blood, 15% people are mixed and remaing 30% are local convertee (mainly Buddist).

I think for today, it is enough for you so that next time you never dare to comment in that manner. It seems that you have a very thin knowledge about Islam. Can't you see people like Eastwatch and others how elaborately discussing the origin of muslim people in Bengal.

It seems you failed to understand what I meant by there being no sainthood in Islam. Though, Al-zakir bro got it right away. Do you know what the actual meaning of a saint is? Someone of high spiritual stature who is free from sin. What I meant by saying there is no "sainthood" in Islam is that NO ONE is free from sin. I was not doubting the arrival and spreading of Islam in Bengal in anyway, I was just pointing out that those people are not "saints" by their literal meaning. They may have been awliyaa, but not "saints" (by their literal meaning). So next time, before you say I'm Buddhist, or Animist or claim that I have a "very thin knowledge of Islam", try to understand what I'm saying.

 

[Md Akmal]

Dear Akash57,

Thankyou for your good and early reply. How can I ignor you ? you are a captain and I am bloody still second lietennent in this forum. Sorry for the comment, I withdraw it. Best regards.

 

[saadtn1]

I read few replies in this thread. Good to see Bangali brothers participating in debate. I think its time Pakistan and Bangladesh forget past and carry on good relations even as seperate states!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I read few replies in this thread. Good to see Bangali brothers participating in debate. I think its time Pakistan and Bangladesh forget past and carry on good relations even as seperate states!

as far as i know, we moved on long time ago

 

[Md Akmal]

"IN SEARCH OF BENGALI MUSLIM IDENTITY" PART ONE

Great thanks to Eastwatch, Al Zaker and Iajdani for their contribution in this topic. I wonder how it coincide with the three minds of three different people. Once I picked up this topic when I was in Bosnia back in 1994 than I thought that it is only me who is thinking on this topic but now I realise there are many more people who are thinking on the same line.

@ Infact, it created a lot of curiosity among the British people once the first population sensus took place in Bengal in 1870(I think) where they found out lot of Bengali muslims. While the sensus was in progress at Pabna district, they became surprize that 80 % people have given their identity as Syed, Afgan,Persian, Pathan, Turk etc and only 20 % people said that they were Bengalies. And these Bengalies were all Hindus. In the true sense in those days people were reluctant to identify them as Bengali. They used to read/write Arbi, Persi and other Central Asian languages. Bengali was used only as "Kottho Basha". It was on that day once Bengal was divided(1906) the writings of Tagore and other Bengali writers inspired them to identify them as Bengali.

@ As it is already said that bulk of our people became muslims from the Buddist and not from the Hindus.After the fall and decline of Pal Dynasty, the people of this area had no religion rather they were not allowed to do so by the rullers of Sen Dynasty. When the Sen Dynasty came from the Deccan they all most killed all the Buddist religious people, some flade to North through Auronachal, some went towards East(Burma-Thailand) some may be towards Sri Lanka. The main problem with the Hindu religion was that no convertee Hindu were allowed. So, Sen rullers brought lot of Brahmon from Deccan and placed them as religious teacher on all the newly build Temples. And it was declared that all women of the vicinity to serve these teachers and in the process the offspring would be legal and may be taken as "Khotrro" in Hinduism. These "manders"/tamples were histrocally known as "Sharaen Mondir". So this rigid Hindu policy was not accepted by the common people and they were just waiting for something bigger. In those days the people of this area used to go for "Tejarat" at Arakan where there were many Muslim Saints used to come from Middle East. By seeing their attitude, behaviour and other religious activities the local bussiness invited them to visit Bengal to preach their new religion. In this way, "Shah Sultan Barkhe Mahi Sawar" came to Bogra(Mastangarg) and preached Islam. His name was Shah and he was from Barkh(Afganistan), he was called Sultan because he was also a ruller at Bogra, he came on a ship look like fish from Arakan through "Korotua" river so title is "Mahi Sawar". Because in Arabic "Mahi" means fish. At that time the capital of Sen Dynasty was at Mahastangarg, Bogra.

 

[LaBong]

So, Sen rullers brought lot of Brahmon from Deccan and placed them as religious teacher on all the newly build Temples. And it was declared that all women of the vicinity to serve these teachers and in the process the offspring would be legal and may be taken as "Khotrro" in Hinduism.

I'm not sure about the above fact, could you provide a source? I thought Bengali Brahmins belong to North Indian school. Also heard the term 'Khotrro' for the first time, I do know Orisha had Devdasis which fits your description but never have known Bengal had similar practise as well!

 

[Md Akmal]

I'm not sure about the above fact, could you provide a source? I thought Bengali Brahmins belong to North Indian school. Also heard the term 'Khotrro' for the first time, I do know Orisha had Devdasis which fits your description but never have known Bengal had similar practise as well!

Dear Abir,

I donnot know about the other portion of Bengal but this remained a common practice in general area Bogra and surrounding. I got this source once I visited Mohaistangarg(Bogra) 15 km towards Rangpur where the "Tom" of Shah Sultan Burkhi Mahi Sawar is located."Sharaen Mandir"practice was common in that area for almost two century and this was one of the main reason that mass people converted to Islam. During the British period the number of muslim percentage was very high in greater Bogra district almost 80% to 85%. The fact of "Sharaen Mandir" is there in the local "Puthier Gan" and in local "Jatras" in greater Bogra district. I will search these sources for you. By the way, you are welcome to Bogra. All things cannot be found in the history. Best reagrds.

The Senas (C. 1150-1204 A.D.)
The Senas originally came from the Deccan and settled in West Bengal. Vijayasena was the first great ruler of the dynasty. He defeated the last Pala king Madanapala, and established his authority over this district. He was succeeded by his son, Vallalsena (1160-1178 A.D.) who was in definite possession of the district. He built his capital at Bhabanipur (a shakti-peeth) in this district. Lakshmanasena (1178-1204 A.D.), the son and successor of Vallal Sena, exercised authority over this district till he was driven out by Ikhtiyaruddin Muhammad-bin-Bakhtiyar Khalji in 1204 A.D. Even after this date, a dynasty of Sena Rajas ruled for nearly a century over the north-eastern tract of this district as feudatory chiefs under the suzeranity of the Muslim rulers of Bengal. Their capital was at Kamalpur, a few miles to the north of Bhabanipur (a site of pilgrimage for the Hindu devotees) and little to the south of Sherpur. Achyuta Sena was the last Prince of the line[3]. .

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

Creation of Bangladesh: Shining Moment or Strategic Blunder


Creation of Bangladesh: Shining Moment or Strategic Blunder | Indian Defence Review

Why would you post a garbage article on Bangladesh written by Indian Defense Review?

 

[eastwatch]

"IN SEARCH OF BENGALI MUSLIM IDENTITY" PART ONE

Great thanks to Eastwatch, Al Zaker and Iajdani for their contribution in this topic. I wonder how it coincide with the three minds of three different people. Once I picked up this topic when I was in Bosnia back in 1994 than I thought that it is only me who is thinking on this topic but now I realise there are many more people who are thinking on the same line.

@ Infact, it created a lot of curiosity among the British people once the first population sensus took place in Bengal in 1870(I think) where they found out lot of Bengali muslims. While the sensus was in progress at Pabna district, they became surprize that 80 % people have given their identity as Syed, Afgan,Persian, Pathan, Turk etc and only 20 % people said that they were Bengalies. And these Bengalies were all Hindus. In the true sense in those days people were reluctant to identify them as Bengali. They used to read/write Arbi, Persi and other Central Asian languages. Bengali was used only as "Kottho Basha". It was on that day once Bengal was divided(1906) the writings of Tagore and other Bengali writers inspired them to identify them as Bengali.

@ As it is already said that bulk of our people became muslims from the Buddist and not from the Hindus.After the fall and decline of Pal Dynasty, the people of this area had no religion rather they were not allowed to do so by the rullers of Sen Dynasty. When the Sen Dynasty came from the Deccan they all most killed all the Buddist religious people, some flade to North through Auronachal, some went towards East(Burma-Thailand) some may be towards Sri Lanka. The main problem with the Hindu religion was that no convertee Hindu were allowed. So, Sen rullers brought lot of Brahmon from Deccan and placed them as religious teacher on all the newly build Temples. And it was declared that all women of the vicinity to serve these teachers and in the process the offspring would be legal and may be taken as "Khotrro" in Hinduism. These "manders"/tamples were histrocally known as "Sharaen Mondir". So this rigid Hindu policy was not accepted by the common people and they were just waiting for something bigger. In those days the people of this area used to go for "Tejarat" at Arakan where there were many Muslim Saints used to come from Middle East. By seeing their attitude, behaviour and other religious activities the local bussiness invited them to visit Bengal to preach their new religion. In this way, "Shah Sultan Barkhe Mahi Sawar" came to Bogra(Mastangarg) and preached Islam. His name was Shah and he was from Barkh(Afganistan), he was called Sultan because he was also a ruller at Bogra, he came on a ship look like fish from Arakan through "Korotua" river so title is "Mahi Sawar". Because in Arabic "Mahi" means fish. At that time the capital of Sen Dynasty was at Mahastangarg, Bogra.

I have not completed reading your post. But, I must say that no one should believe a witch doctor of history. I am not talking about the British academicians and historians. But, by witch doctor, I mean those administrative Britishers who would fondly make ignorant comments in writing without ever going through a single page of the general history of Bengal and Hindustan written in Persian during the Muslim period.

Only the history books written by these Muslim historians, and the British Historians and Hindu historians of British time should be trusted. Even many of our ignorant BD historians do not have a proper understanding of history. So, they are also biased and come to an easy conclusion. Thanks.

 

[KindlyCruel]

---Delete---

 

[KindlyCruel]

We were pakistani then so it was pakistani forces that went after gaddars and anti pakistani element. It was fair and right things to do at that time. It was your propaganda that misguided neutral people. As a result, we may have dissolved united Pakistan but connection still here.

Here is a info for you. If any **** occurred then it was Hindu women by Awami dogs and Bharati scums yet you Bharati still pledge your support for Awami. Now go eat it. We have nothing to do with Awami dogs and Bharati scums.

The same way the Indian Army is treating the Kashmiris who are against India and you find it wrong and call the IA terrorist..
Double minded?
India is doing to Kashmiris what Paksitan did to east Pakistan before 71.
You find the Pakistani army right,but the Indian army wrong.
Whats cooking in your mind?eh?

 

[eastwatch]

Dear Eastwatch,
Finally, I may conclude that we the Bengalies are the hetogenous nation, we had been divided, we are divided and we will remain divided in future and that's why there will hardly be any development in our country. All these is because of the blood. [/B][/I]

The bloods of Hindu Bangalis remained divided because they have a caste system, which prohibit them to do inter-marry. But, the Muslims of Bengal,　whatever may be their diversifications in the past due to their various backgrounds, are already a homogeneous group of people.

Muslims in Bengal do not cite their ancestral backgrounds at all, marry among each other, share the same food from the same plate, go to the same mosque and pray to Allah. By this process we have already become a homogeneous people.

 

[Md Akmal]

The bloods of Hindu Bangalis remained divided because they have a caste system, which prohibit them to do inter-marry. But, the Muslims of Bengal,　whatever may be their diversifications in the past due to their various backgrounds, are already a homogeneous group of people.

Muslims in Bengal do not cite their ancestral backgrounds at all, marry among each other, share the same food from the same plate, go to the same mosque and pray to Allah. By this process we have already become a homogeneous people.

@ I agree with some of your points but still there is problem of thought process. Now, after long 42 years of our independance we are still not united on the following critical points:

1. Whether we are Bengali or Bangladeshi ?

2. Controvercy over the implementation of the education
policy of Dr Kurad-e-Khuda ?

3. Whether we should follow the secularism or not ?

4. What should be our foreign policy? Once BNP comes to power they maintains a very close link with China, Pakistan and other muslim countries.On the other hand once AL comes to power they moves in opposite direction having a very cordial relation with India.

5. Sometimes I see that BNP and other like minded people celebrates the "Pallassy Day" every year in a very gorgeous manner on the otherhand AL hardly bothers.

6. AL gives more importance on the Hindu leaders like Mater Da Surju Sen,Pritilota, Khudi Ram and Tagore. On the otherhand BNP hardly remembers them and give more impotance on Kazi Nazrul Islam.

7. AL gives more impotance on Gandhi than Jinna.

8. We have a controvercy over the issue of our father of nation.

@ Infact the whole nation is divided into two blocks on the above issue. With my experiences these two groups of people are not likely to be united in the near future. It is like railway line which never joins together.

@ I was surprised why the people are behaving like that ? Why can't we come to an ananimous decisions on these issues. You remember how the people were killed on the street on 30 October 2006 the day BNP handover power to Caretaker Govt.

@ As per my version it is due to the blood. The people who came from outside i.e, the pure muslim blood are having a different thought. They are not ready to accept the Hindu Bengali culture. Well they are ready to accept the Bengali culture with some Islamic flavour.

 

[LaBong]

6. AL gives more importance on the Hindu leaders like Mater Da Surju Sen,Pritilota, Khudi Ram and Tagore. On the otherhand BNP hardly remembers them and give more impotance on Kazi Nazrul Islam.

Why such partisanship? This is rather sad state of affair that you are even dividing your respect between Kazi and Tagore. I bet Kazi himself would have slapped the people hard on their face had he been alive to see this unfortunate event!

And Master Da, Khudi Ram, Tagore were Hindu leaders? :s Is this how Bangladesh sees them?