Could the F-7PG package sorted out PAF BVR problem?

[blain2]

Hi,

F 7 PG is a newer plane as compared the the ones that india got upgraded to mig 21bis---right now---as it seems---the dash is all analog on F 7PG---with the right upgrades---it can definitely fire the bvr---all mig 21 and their different variants have all been known to be extremely deadly dog fighters.

F-7PG has one MFD and the rest of it is digital/analog. Secondly the fishbed was an average dogfighter. The USAF Phantom's (the world's most aerodynamically challenging aircraft) used to hold up to the fishbed. The Israeli Phantoms took on the Mig-21s being flown by Soviet pilots and thrashed them.

So the aircraft is alright but certainly not an extremely capable dog fighter. The F-7 PG is a better dog fighter than the baseline Fishbed just because some serious changes have been made on the wings and leading/trailing edges giving it much better agility.

I chatted with a USAF Pilot who told me that between the Viper and the Mig-21, there is simply no comparison (as long as the Viper is being flown well). It will run circles around the Fishbed and with JHMCS, the Fishbed virtually has no chance (his personal observations after having attended Cope India).

 

[fatman17]

based on the thread topic, i have yet to see a pic of a F-7PG loaded with a BVR missile !

 

[paritosh]

F-7PG has one MFD and the rest of it is digital/analog. Secondly the fishbed was an average dogfighter. The USAF Phantom's (the world's most aerodynamically challenging aircraft) used to hold up to the fishbed. The Israeli Phantoms took on the Mig-21s being flown by Soviet pilots and thrashed them.

So the aircraft is alright but certainly not an extremely capable dog fighter. The F-7 PG is a better dog fighter than the baseline Fishbed just because some serious changes have been made on the wings and leading/trailing edges giving it much better agility.

I chatted with a USAF Pilot who told me that between the Viper and the Mig-21, there is simply no comparison (as long as the Viper is being flown well). It will run circles around the Fishbed and with JHMCS, the Fishbed virtually has no chance (his personal observations after having attended Cope India).

the maneuverability of the viper cannot be compared to the fishbed...the mig-21 is no match...what the bison has is good avionics and jammers...none to match the viper...though.

 

[Munir]

Just my 2 cents...

India did a good job turning Bis into Bison. But... We have to look at the concept. Here you have extremely light and small plane where you wanna add decent radar (very minimal) and 2 BVR's (2 major wingpylons are taken... So less fuel). Is it handy? I think not.

In the past a point defence fighter would be superb to guard airfields or important area's. You wait for the moment. Get in the air and use GCI to kill bogey. Return as soon as possible. Well, with assets like Babur, Ra'ad will make this less valuable. You attack the runway/shelters/tower/munition/fuelstorages with long range Babur or less long range Ra'ad and then tell me what you can do with BVR equipped light fighterjets...

Besides that the Bison is a very old airframe and one needs more payload, range and avionics to be truly multirole or valuable. Even IFR is not possible...

Well, now we can go to F7... The older planes are pretty much waste. The PG would be an option but do you upgrade that plane or is it much cheaper to go for JF17 which gives you instant a real BVR plane and less maintenance headaches...

Conclusion. Get JF17 as replacement for F7 (P and PG). Sell those P and PG to poor african nations which need a simple fighterjet and cannot afford JF17. Get Fc20 and another real top plane. Chinese mixed with western parts is preferred.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

Does anybody know why nobody talks about the F7PG and IFR? Since the platform has short legs, surely it would only benefit from aerial refuelling.

 

[SBD-3]

The existing planes would be replaced on a squadron by squadron basis until all of them are replaced.

The planes with the older airframe would go first. The retiring airframes have lived their lives so they are little use to anyone. The retiring planes would however, be cannibalized to keep the in-service ones running. Access material in good shape can be exported to other air forces for the same purpose(i.e use spares for their existing planes). The junk (or unusable material) would be recycled. Of course one or two might end up in museums or some round-about.

A sizeable number of F-16s both new blk -52 and MLU'd ones, 4.5 gen FC-20's, combination of mid-tech (initial batches) and hi-end(later batches) of JF-17s in large numbers, possible inclusion of 5th gen. fighter from China if and when available... I think the time ahead for PAF looks quite bright.

PGs are here to stay for a while because the role of interception and yes rightly said being only 10 years old one should expect them to serve longer but PAF must move on I say after 2015 new plane (whateve it is indiginously designed or acquired with ToT) must start in order to have back up upto 2025.regarding selling of Ps and PGs i dont think the market is very active but we may use them for a diplomatic use like gifting them to Bangladesh as replacement of its F-7 fighters or SLAF or even Afghanistan inorder to build strong relationships with them why to waste useful resources on storing these birds

 

[QADRI]

I think it's not suitable for J7PG to use SD-10, because if do that, J7PG need change radar, now Pakistan have FC-1 and F-16block52 and FC-20, so it's not necessary

Sir i don't think that Pakistan would have those F-16 block52.

 

[Arsalan]

Sir i don't think that Pakistan would have those F-16 block52.

even if we do not ge them the JF and the FC would be enough for the BVR role!
upgrading F7 will come up with something thatcan never be superior to the exixting JF17 block and then we could not further upgrade them F7 while the JF will have the potential to be turned into a leathal generation plane! so it wont be wise to invest on something that will prove to be inferior to the existing option of the JF17z! also these F7 are old platform, even the latest ones are some years old or even more that that so they will alos have some mantainance spending to be done in order to keep them flying while such spendings will be minimal with the JF17

regards!

 

[nightrider_saulat]

I DON'T F-16 BLOCK 52 WILL MAKE THIER WAY TO PAKISTAN

 

[SBD-3]

I DON'T F-16 BLOCK 52 WILL MAKE THIER WAY TO PAKISTAN

of course they ll fly their way to Pakistan.

 

[Arsalan]

of course they ll fly their way to Pakistan.

i have to differ on that dear!
i guess we had enough the all weather friendship of US! do not expect anthing good from them now!

for me it is better like that, we should plan our future without keeping US as a potential supplier, rely on JF 17, FC 20 and other non-US influenced equipments and then if the F16 come take it as a bonus buy!
we cannot keep the number of FC20 low thinking that we will get F16! (it is just an example as the number of FC20 is going to be increased once the intial induction is done and PAF have evaluated and integrated the system)

regards!

 

[hj786]

Does anybody know why nobody talks about the F7PG and IFR? Since the platform has short legs, surely it would only benefit from aerial refuelling.

Its not just the short legs; the radar, the maximum take-off weight, the performance, the whole package is just too old. It would be completely pointless fitting them with IFR when what PAF really needs is to replace them with a new fighter. If you can only afford to fly F-7s, can you afford aerial refuelling tankers?

 

[Arsalan]

Its not just the short legs; the radar, the maximum take-off weight, the performance, the whole package is just too old. It would be completely pointless fitting them with IFR when what PAF really needs is to replace them with a new fighter. If you can only afford to fly F-7s, can you afford aerial refuelling tankers?

rightly siad!

with the F7 ready to be replaced, beter sooner rather than later, so we do not want to invest on these platform. although the newer F7PG are to be kept operational for some time but it will be more of a stop gap and we will find them being repalced at the end and this wont be far too late from now!
investing on a platform that is some 15 years old and is to be kept flying for another 4 to 5 years only wont be a wise idea! specially keeping in mind that we have JF, Mirages and soon will be having the FC20 for such roles!

regards!

 

[SBD-3]

i have to differ on that dear!
i guess we had enough the all weather friendship of US! do not expect anthing good from them now!

for me it is better like that, we should plan our future without keeping US as a potential supplier, rely on JF 17, FC 20 and other non-US influenced equipments and then if the F16 come take it as a bonus buy!
we cannot keep the number of FC20 low thinking that we will get F16! (it is just an example as the number of FC20 is going to be increased once the intial induction is done and PAF have evaluated and integrated the system)

regards!

ok Agreed but lets suppose that PAF doesnt get Falcons.will it be wise to keep a combination of FC-20 and JF with old Bl 30/15 F-16s? no sir if the deal doesnt go through look for a third platform? trio would be better for PAF than Twins

 

[Arsalan]

ok Agreed but lets suppose that PAF doesnt get Falcons.will it be wise to keep a combination of FC-20 and JF with old Bl 30/15 F-16s? no sir if the deal doesnt go through look for a third platform? trio would be better for PAF than Twins

i never siad that we wont go for any other platform except the JF and the FC20! all i think is that dependence on US will bring no good to us in the future!
yes we will need another high end platform to complement FC20 in the high tech roles but it wont be possible to induct it together with JF and FC as it will creat a lot of mess at our training and maintainance facilities. so perhaps we should give four to five years to these planes to get mature and then go for another 4.5 high tech plane. it is not a case of flyimg a twin or trio but it is to add another ounch in arsenal for high tech role. so i gues when we will be good with the JF and FC,a suqadron of two of a new MRCA will do the job. but, at the present it will be almost impossible to go for a new paltform and that is perhaps one of the reasons that PAF still sticks to F16 deal!

i hope you understand it now!

regards!