Could the F-7PG package sorted out PAF BVR problem?

[Zob]

a question i by mistake asked on another thread is what are the major significant diffrences between F7PG and MIG21 BISONS...? thanx

 

[Myth_buster_1]

a question i by mistake asked on another thread is what are the major significant diffrences between F7PG and MIG21 BISONS...? thanx

MIG-21 Bison is by far the most capable mig-21 including J-7 series fighter jet and even comparable to block 15 F-16s but defiantly no where close to MLU M3 that we are getting.

 

[Nishan_101]

Of ~190 F-7, ~60 are newer PG models, they are only about 10 years old so they will stay as front-line fighters for some time longer, until at least 2015. The ~120 F-7P models have had quite a few crashes, so they will start being phased out as soon as they can be replaced by JF I think.
A-5 on the other hand will be kept for longer according to MuradK because it has a good flight safety record. An A-5 squadron is being re-equipped with JF-17 in a couple of months, so I think maybe the older A-5 will be replaced by JF while the newer A-5s with good condition airframes and less flight hours will be kept in front-line service (purely for ground attack missions perhaps).

I also wanted 2 say that in an video ontis site about the F-7P u can findout that our F-7P can deploy laser guided bombs also go and get a look at the video coz now it as a HUD which is produced by our PAF engineers
and also its radar has been upgraded to Grio S-7 and also every one should read what i said on the above F-7PG topic plz read it ok

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Gentlemen, please be considerate---use proper english---caps---periods etc. Thanks.

Guys---please understand that F7PG is an integral part of the PAF for the next few years along with most other platforms. First of all---the sqdrns that will see replacements will be of the planes that are getting really old. The F 7 PG's bought in 98--99 are still young---they will be used for awhile.

The JF 17, the F 16 mlu's and BLK 52's will need trained pilots---trained pilots just don't jump out of nowhere---pilots flying the old mirages---the F 7 PG's the A5 will be promoted to fly the newer birds---that is how the flyer heirarchy work----props to jet engine trainer---then the the mirage---F 7 pg's A 5 if any left and then to higher grounds.

Any body with a better knowledge of heirarchy please do indulge. Thanks.

 

[MZUBAIR]

The existing planes would be replaced on a squadron by squadron basis until all of them are replaced.

The planes with the older airframe would go first. The retiring airframes have lived their lives so they are little use to anyone. The retiring planes would however, be cannibalized to keep the in-service ones running. Access material in good shape can be exported to other air forces for the same purpose(i.e use spares for their existing planes). The junk (or unusable material) would be recycled. Of course one or two might end up in museums or some round-about.

A sizeable number of F-16s both new blk -52 and MLU'd ones, 4.5 gen FC-20's, combination of mid-tech (initial batches) and hi-end(later batches) of JF-17s in large numbers, possible inclusion of 5th gen. fighter from China if and when available... I think the time ahead for PAF looks quite bright.

Nice reply, Thank you

 

[syedmobeenali]

Pakistan currently have 192 F-7.

Questions are!!!!

1) How much they are capable for PAF as we are moving towards 5th generation?

2) Any reasonable upgradation?
3) If we sale them then who will buy them as each plane may be cost around 3 million (I guess). (JF-17 is about 15 to 20 million)
4) Can we ground that large number of planes?
5) How can we make their optimal use as they are our assets either by selling or making them useful or ground them? What will PAF do?

These are very important questions? There should be cost estimation. PAF should not throw them in dustbin. We should sell them or make them usefull. We cant take them as trainers as we are already having and inducting K-8 for trainings.

I need ur lights !!!!

We can use them as Target Drone .china is also using some of its retired j-7 as target drone.Which can be very good platform for exercises.J-7 Target Drone - SinoDefence.com

 

[Nishan_101]

Hi 2 every1 , I just want 2 say that i ave an image in which there is detailed about AMRAAM Aim-120's That they can be ired from grippen whose radars are in silent mode but asisted by a saab-2000 like they were doing the petrolin an saw an enemy aircraft through AEW&C through Link-16 and just shoot teir Aim-120's through it and the mid-course giudence to the missiles is provided by AEW&C's and later when they got near their internal homing takes up.i really don't know how to post that big pic as it could not be posted on this screen even not throug attachment tell PC how u did it ok repli me now

Especially for those ones who thinks that F-7PG's are stationed at Samungali this might be shown tat they r sationed there but they might be sationed near Eastern border and may be they haven't declassified it that they can fire BVR coz they have the same radars as mirage rose-1 n r PAk upgraded with some EU-avionics i really read it in Pakistanidefence forums but no one was sure about it that tey can actually fire BVR
Hey read it
I also wanted 2 say that in an video ontis site about the F-7P u can findout that our F-7P can deploy laser guided bombs also go and get a look at the video coz now it as a HUD which is produced by our PAF engineers
and also its radar has been upgraded to Grio S-7 and also every one should read what i said on the above F-7PG topic plz read it ok

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Hi,

Gentlemen, please be considerate---use proper english---caps---periods etc. Thanks.

Guys---please understand that F7PG is an integral part of the PAF for the next few years along with most other platforms. First of all---the sqdrns that will see replacements will be of the planes that are getting really old. The F 7 PG's bought in 98--99 are still young---they will be used for awhile.

The JF 17, the F 16 mlu's and BLK 52's will need trained pilots---trained pilots just don't jump out of nowhere---pilots flying the old mirages---the F 7 PG's the A5 will be promoted to fly the newer birds---that is how the flyer heirarchy work----props to jet engine trainer---then the the mirage---F 7 pg's A 5 if any left and then to higher grounds.

Any body with a better knowledge of heirarchy please do indulge. Thanks.

Sir,

Correct me if I am wrong. The training goes like Props---->Intermediate jets----->Advanced jet trainer--->the squadron where the pilot is going to operate. This is why the two seaters are bought along with the single seat. the two seater aircrafts form the final training regime. The F 16 B is one of that kind.

 

[mean_bird]

I really don't know how to post that big pic as it could not be posted on this screen even not throug attachment tell PC how u did it ok repli me now

upload it on flickr.com or photobucket.com and give us the link.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,

Correct me if I am wrong. The training goes like Props---->Intermediate jets----->Advanced jet trainer--->the squadron where the pilot is going to operate. This is why the two seaters are bought along with the single seat. the two seater aircrafts form the final training regime. The F 16 B is one of that kind.

Hi,

A two to five years flying experience on the F 7PG will prepare a pilot for an easier transition to an F 16 / JF 17 / Fc20.

Muradk can correct me--but my understanding is that a PAF pilot goes through a lot more grind than thier indian counterparts---I believe that the PAF program is stair stepped once you qualify the jet trainer---. I don't think that the F 7PG is headed for target drones or if there is going to be a for sale sign put on them.

F7PG is an extremely deadly WVR close combat fighter---people are just writing this plane off, just because some fancy names have popped up---gentlemen----please do a little more background check on the abilities and capabilities of the machine that you question---keeping in mind our empty pockets.

 

[MaXimMaRz]

apparently our F-7PG only carry WVR missiles and not a considerable advantage over previous F-7 models.
what i think PAF should have sorted out a short gap BVR for the F-7PG until more capable BVR would be acquired over the next decade.
since F-7PG were proquired in response for IAF MIG-21 upgrade "BISON" which btw is technically much superior but this could have to sorted out if PAF considered a BVR SD-10 jammer pod "KG300g" and bvr radar "KLJ-7".
so this is what i would have expected to see on our F-7PG..



and lol what do we find out... F-7PG almost 500km away from indian border.

I dont think yo gonna see any BVR on F-7PG...Reasons
1...higher payload = forward throttle setting = more fuel consumption = shorter ranges !
2...Asymmetric problems ! yo will have to fire both the BVRs in salvo mode , and two is all that it will have....!
3...Mig-21-93 or Bison has the same problem....It has to solvo fire even Mig-29
a Good All aspect IR will do mch better , in DCAO role

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Hi,

A two to five years flying experience on the F 7PG will prepare a pilot for an easier transition to an F 16 / JF 17 / Fc20.
Muradk can correct me--but my understanding is that a PAF pilot goes through a lot more grind than thier indian counterparts---I believe that the PAF program is stair stepped once you qualify the jet trainer---. I don't think that the F 7PG is headed for target drones or if there is going to be a for sale sign put on them.

F7PG is an extremely deadly WVR close combat fighter---people are just writing this plane off, just because some fancy names have popped up---gentlemen----please do a little more background check on the abilities and capabilities of the machine that you question---keeping in mind our empty pockets.

Sir,
Sir there will be a lot of accustomization to be done when a pilot transfers from the F7 to the F 16. These are two different machines developed for different reasons and also used for different reasons in the PAF. I think mostly the pilots will be acclimatized with the help of a simulator. The best passing out candidates will be sent to F 16 straight away. The F7 might act as the Advanced trainer for the PAF, like the MiG 21AT in the IAF.

The IAF training standards have improved and the pilots are getting training hours of atleast 230 to 280 in an year. This i cant prove to you as there are no links available. It is out of the horses mouth.

The MiG 21 is a very good fighter for dogfights. It is a very good high altitude interceptor and a decent dogfighter. But it is no where comparable to the F 16 earlier versions in maneuverability.

 

[MaXimMaRz]

Coupled with a ground based sensor F-7P is one Hell of a DCAO Platform, due to its small size and amazing turn rate along with instantaneous turn rate its perfect for s to intercept incoming raids...its not a trainer its a hell for others in close combats..trust me

 

[qsaark]

Coupled with a ground based sensor F-7P is one Hell of a DCAO Platform, due to its small size and amazing turn rate along with instantaneous turn rate its perfect for s to intercept incoming raids...its not a trainer its a hell for others in close combats..trust me

There is no doubt that F-7 especially PG is hell of machine in WVR combat. The problem is, they are very prone to BVR shot. Never once I have seen Pakistani (or even chinese for that matter) F-7s with any ECM pod. On the other hand, our F-16s have a better chance surviving a BVR shot thanks to the AN/ALQ-131. I wonder if some member can shed some light on ECM suite installed (if any) on our F-7s.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Every aircraft is prone to a BVR shot. But still then, if there is life after BVR which is WVR---then the scenario changes completely. Now you are suddenly in the realm of the F 7 pg----what the fighter was designed and equipped for---that is what I am trying to share.

Satishkumar---some PAF F7 PG pilots would disagree with you. When you say F 16---they say---bring it on. You see F 7PG is not overweight---it is still a fighter interceptor. For example---what the MIG 21 BIS has gained in BVR---it has lost in WVR---well that is a choice that an air force wants to follow.

I don't believe that in the PAF, best passing out flyers are sent to F 16 directly----I believe it is the other way around---they have to go through the grind---they have to do their time in the A 5's, Mirages and F 7's etc ( I can be corrected on that ). The top flyers are then sent to F 16's.