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COULD THE CASC CH-5 UAV BE AN OPTION FOR PAKISTAN?

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On Friday July 14, the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC) announced that it was ready to mass-produce and offer its CH-5 drone for export.

The new medium-altitude and long endurance (MALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) is among a handful of drones – along with the General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper and Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) Eitan –capable of carrying more than 1,000 kg in munitions and electronics equipment.

However, unlike the Reaper and IAI Eitan, the CASC CH-5 appeals to a larger market, i.e. countries not privy to the defence industry access available to those aligned with NATO and the United States. One of those countries is Pakistan, China’s leading importer of big-ticket defence items, which include fast attack crafts, frigates, submarines, fighter aircraft and more.

When it was officially unveiled at Air Show China 2016 in Zhuhai in October, CASC stated that CH-5 had a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of 3,300 kg, a payload of 1,200 kg (of which 200 kg is internal), a range of 2,000 km, endurance of 60 hours and service ceiling of 30,000 ft. The CH-5’s 330 hp engine provides a loiter speed of 180-200 km/h and a maximum speed of 300 km/h.

With these specifications, the CH-5 is much larger than the drones China has been exporting to date, be it the Rainbow or CH-series from CASC or the Wing Loong platform produced by the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG). Outside of the U.S., Israel and Western Europe, the CH-5 is also the largest drone available, especially to CASC and CAIG drone users in the Middle East, South Asia and Africa.

Pakistan’s current inventory of UAVs comprise of tactical – i.e. short-range and light capacity – units, such as the Burraq, Shahpar and others. With a MTOW 480 kg, the Shahpar has a payload of 50 kg for electro-optical and infrared (EO/IR) equipment and endurance of less than seven hours. The Burraq is thought to have a payload of 100-200 kg, which can be distributed between EO/IR equipment and munitions. Official information regarding the Burraq’s range and endurance is not available, but even if it is at-par with the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) Anka, it would still be 24 hours (versus the CH-5’s 60 hour-endurance).

Given these specifications, it seems that the Burraq and Shahpar are deployed to support specific combat engagements, such as airstrikes or building situational awareness through intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) over a localized combat area. If Pakistan were to acquire the CH-5, it would not deploy them for the tactical roles currently assumed by the Burraq and Shahpar. Rather, the CH-5 would (if acquired) be sought for its loitering, range and payload, which would place it in roles that are currently managed by manned platforms, such as special mission aircraft.

Granted, the CH-5’s complete range is accessible through satellite communications (SATCOM) connectivity, but SATCOM is an acquirable (though costly) piece. If SATCOM is in place, Pakistan can deploy the CH-5 as a long-haul ISR asset for monitoring its coastal areas and exclusive economic zone (EEZ) at sea. Pakistan can also use the CH-5’s endurance and range for ISR operations along its borders, which can help build strategic situational awareness and provide another early warning layer (especially against asymmetrical threats). The CH-5’s payload can be leveraged for EO/IR equipment for targeting and image intelligence, synthetic aperture radars with ground moving target indicator for situational awareness of the terrain (SAR/GMTI), and electronic intelligence (ELINT) and electronic warfare (EW) equipment for support roles.

These roles are undertaken by manned platforms, such as the Pakistan Navy’s ATR-72 and Hawker 850XP, the Pakistan Army’s King Air 350ER and the Pakistan Air Force’s Falcon 20s.

While not as individually capable as these dedicated platforms, the CH-5 would be cheaper to acquire and operate. This can enable the armed forces to field CH-5s in greater numbers and use the drones to fill surveillance coverage gaps, loiter over areas of interest for several days and/or provide manned platforms with additional information (e.g. send SAR/GMTI feeds to friendly combat aircraft).

The CH-5 is also disposable (lacking a crew and being lower-cost), enabling the armed forces to potentially deploy the drone in high-threat environments, e.g. in proximity to an opposing integrated air defence system, which can occur if the CH-5 is deployed as an EW support asset.

Besides broadening Pakistan’s ISR capabilities, the CH-5 could even serve as an effective close air support (CAS) assets if its 1,000-kg external load is made to comprise of precision-guided bombs and air-to-surface munitions. However, it is not yet clear if Pakistan is interested in the CH-5. CASC said it was speaking to existing CH-series customers, which can theoretically include Pakistan (as the Burraq appears to be a licensed derivative of the CH-3A), but Pakistan Aeronautical Complex’s Aviation Design Institute (AvDI) also has a MALE UAV in development(specifically in the final design stages).

The MALE UAV scope is broad. It can include drones as large as the CH-5 and drones as small as the CH-4B. The latter category could be in the realm of AvDI’s design and development capacities, which can spur a design that is a natural tactically-oriented successor to the Shahpar and Burraq. If AvDI’s MALE UAV is an analogous solution to the CH-4B or TAI Anka, then there may be space for a CH-5-like solution, albeit if Pakistan is truly intent on building long-range ISR and long-haul loitering capacities through drones.

http://quwa.org/2017/07/20/pakistan-consider-casc-ch-5-uav/
 
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Wasn't Unknown kind of UAV crashed in Pakistan few months back which was later told it's similar to CH-5 and was under trials


Having a feeling that in Aviation city the Medium range UAV gonna be CH-5 and fifth gen fighter gonna be J-31
 
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Wasn't Unknown kind of UAV crashed in Pakistan few months back which was later told it's similar to CH-5 and was under trials


Having a feeling that in Aviation city the Medium range UAV gonna be CH-5 and fifth gen fighter gonna be J-31
No they are not. J-31 chances are reducing and I wish it comes but Pakistan it working on few Armed Drones of its own. The 5th Generation will be designed by us and we would also be partners in one with China and most likely Turkish one also
 
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No they are not. J-31 chances are reducing and I wish it comes but Pakistan it working on few Armed Drones of its own. The 5th Generation will be designed by us and we would also be partners in one with China and most likely Turkish one also

Sir g m telling you that's gonna happen

Like Burraq Drone you gonna see CH-5 with Pakistani name being made in Pakistan just like China is gonna make Drones in Saudi Arabia


About Fifth Generation so
1 We gonna design ours but from where we gonna get engines Radars avionics etc?? even if we design our it's gonna take decades to materialize it take a look at Turkish TAI TFX for example

we would also be partners in one with China so that's 2nd 5th Generation Aircraft
most likely Turkish one also and that's 3rd

Rather then wasting time invest what is already there J-31 and TAI TFX as long term and short term with J-31 to be jointly produced just like JF-17
 
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Sir g m telling you that's gonna happen

Like Burraq Drone you gonna see CH-5 with Pakistani name being made in Pakistan just like China is gonna make Drones in Saudi Arabia


About Fifth Generation so
1 We gonna design ours but from where we gonna get engines Radars avionics etc?? even if we design our it's gonna take decades to materialize it take a look at Turkish TAI TFX for example

we would also be partners in one with China so that's 2nd 5th Generation Aircraft
most likely Turkish one also and that's 3rd

Rather then wasting time invest what is already there J-31 and TAI TFX as long term and short term with J-31 to be jointly produced just like JF-17
Seeing that AvDI is responsible for the MALE UAV, I wouldn't be so sure in saying that it is a re-print of a Chinese design. AvDI's entire purpose is to undertake proper design and development work, which is different from stuff like integration, customization and production that places like PAC already do.

We might see a unique Pakistani MALE UAV, but it will probably be closer in size to the Anka or CH-4B for replacing the Burraq and Shahpar in tactical roles. The CH-5 is a bigger design and there's no negativity in inducting such a drone, the likes of Germany, UK, India, etc, do the very same thing when they look at the IAI Eitan or G.A Reaper.

As for the 5th-gen fighter. It's unlikely that the PAF would go for both FC-31 and TFX, they're in the same class of fighter. It'll be one of the two and an original design from AvDI. That doesn't mean AvDI will take on the design and development work alone, but I don't think the 5th-gen fighter to be built in Pakistan is from current designs. Moreover, the PAF has more familiarity working with Chengdu (JF-17) than it does with Shenyang (FC-31).
 
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"CASC stated that CH-5 had a maximum take-off weight (MTOW) of 3,300 kg, a payload of 1,200 kg (of which 200 kg is internal), a range of 2,000 km, endurance of 60 hours and service ceiling of 30,000 ft. The CH-5’s 330 hp engine provides a loiter speed of 180-200 km/h and a maximum speed of 300 km/h."

This is some some multi-mission drone not to ignore..

upload_2017-7-20_19-45-57.jpeg


upload_2017-7-20_19-43-17.jpeg


upload_2017-7-20_19-44-41.jpeg
 
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Seeing that AvDI is responsible for the MALE UAV, I wouldn't be so sure in saying that it is a re-print of a Chinese design. AvDI's entire purpose is to undertake proper design and development work, which is different from stuff like integration, customization and production that places like PAC already do.

We might see a unique Pakistani MALE UAV, but it will probably be closer in size to the Anka or CH-4B for replacing the Burraq and Shahpar in tactical roles. The CH-5 is a bigger design and there's no negativity in inducting such a drone, the likes of Germany, UK, India, etc, do the very same thing when they look at the IAI Eitan or G.A Reaper.

As for the 5th-gen fighter. It's unlikely that the PAF would go for both FC-31 and TFX, they're in the same class of fighter. It'll be one of the two and an original design from AvDI. That doesn't mean AvDI will take on the design and development work alone, but I don't think the 5th-gen fighter to be built in Pakistan is from current designs. Moreover, the PAF has more familiarity working with Chengdu (JF-17) than it does with Shenyang (FC-31).

Well they can Modify/customize the Drone according to their needs we need Medium Endurance UAV and CH-5 is perfect for that having 30 Hours or more endurance costing just $1 Million per Piece while Reaper Drone Costs $5 Million


I know that but it was mentioned in the Article that PAF is looking for 2 5th generation Aircrafts 1 for short term project and 1 is for long term and TAI TFX is not gonna come before 2029-2030 for sure and J-31 will be ready in 2024-2025

well if PAF is not gonna build 5th generation in Pakistan then what's the point of Aviation city which was recently launched?? it was for UAV's and 5th generation planes while we are alrady producing JF-17's at PAC
 
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It will be a excellent choice, but Pakistan should go for the version which can carry up to 16 missiles, it will serve really well in the PA as they should be used for monitoring the border, tracking & killing rented terrorists.
 
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No they are not. J-31 chances are reducing and I wish it comes but Pakistan it working on few Armed Drones of its own. The 5th Generation will be designed by us and we would also be partners in one with China and most likely Turkish one also
BURRAQ is totally different thing than CH-5 Drone having similar shape doesn't mean is same from inside
 
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Any attempt to acquire CH-5 or CH-4 drones would be ironic: It would be against the previous Air Cheif's claims that they are making the MALE UAV / UCAV themselves. If you look at the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), any transfer UAV with a range of over 300 Km is a clear violation. From China, this will be a bigger scandal than M9 and M11 missiles of yesteryear.

Any rebranding would be simply called out. I hope Pakistan and any of its military branches do not commit a blunder of this level at such sensitive times.

I think the solution is to partner with a mature UAV developer, who would be willing to setup a manufacturing and integration facility in Pakistan to make the drone for PK government use, and hence the drone can be indigenous and with an independent name and intellectual property being owned by Pakistani Service Customer. This will also allow to integrate local weapons such as Burq, and other weapons.

The key to this technology is the flight control computer. Any company in the world that makes it own flight control computer for the bird would be able to deliver the correct solution. I am eager to see the outcome of the developments in this area.

It will be a excellent choice, but Pakistan should go for the version which can carry up to 16 missiles, it will serve really well in the PA as they should be used for monitoring the border, tracking & killing rented terrorists.

It will be a very poor choice. Such a UAV would cost almost 20 Million Dollars to acquire. A loss of one such bird would be a huge financial and morale loss. A better configuration maybe, in our scenario, a lower cost indigenously developed bird with two hard points, so that more can be in a package, and loss of one would not mean loss of the mission.
 
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The
Any attempt to acquire CH-5 or CH-4 drones would be ironic: It would be against the previous Air Cheif's claims that they are making the MALE UAV / UCAV themselves. If you look at the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), any transfer UAV with a range of over 300 Km is a clear violation. From China, this will be a bigger scandal than M9 and M11 missiles of yesteryear.

Any rebranding would be simply called out. I hope Pakistan and any of its military branches do not commit a blunder of this level at such sensitive times.

I think the solution is to partner with a mature UAV developer, who would be willing to setup a manufacturing and integration facility in Pakistan to make the drone for PK government use, and hence the drone can be indigenous and with an independent name and intellectual property being owned by Pakistani Service Customer. This will also allow to integrate local weapons such as Burq, and other weapons.

The key to this technology is the flight control computer. Any company in the world that makes it own flight control computer for the bird would be able to deliver the correct solution. I am eager to see the outcome of the developments in this area.



It will be a very poor choice. Such a UAV would cost almost 20 Million Dollars to acquire. A loss of one such bird would be a huge financial and morale loss. A better configuration maybe, in our scenario, a lower cost indigenously developed bird with two hard points, so that more can be in a package, and loss of one would not mean loss of the mission.
The CH-5 is on AVIC's catalogue (for export), while the CH-4 and Wing Loong have been sold to the Middle East since 2012. The issue is that while the airframe could operate past 300 km, the Chinese sell the drones with a MTCR restricted LoS suite. Not sure if they've left the doors open to the end-user to pivot to SATCOM or some other BLoS system without OEM knowledge.
 
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I think the fact that India, France, UK, Italy Spain etc all operate Reaper (Indian reapers are supposedly unarmed) amd that neither China nor Pakistan are MRTC signatories (although China tries to voluntarily comply) means that their wont be too much broohaha if the CH-5 ends up in Pakistan. Not to mention a huge number of countries already operate CH-4B (Reportedly so does Pakistan) which likely already has a range far greater than 300km, i doubt anyone in China or Pakistan will give a crap if someone complains.
 
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Pakistan should buy few of CH-5 heavy weight drones which can carry up to 16 missiles & they should be used to protect Pakistan border from Afghanistan aggression & rented afghani terrorists.
 
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I think the fact that India, France, UK, Italy Spain etc all operate Reaper (Indian reapers are supposedly unarmed) amd that neither China nor Pakistan are MRTC signatories (although China tries to voluntarily comply) means that their wont be too much broohaha if the CH-5 ends up in Pakistan. Not to mention a huge number of countries already operate CH-4B (Reportedly so does Pakistan) which likely already has a range far greater than 300km, i doubt anyone in China or Pakistan will give a crap if someone complains.

Purchase of CH-5 will be a clear MTCR violation and will cause a lot of issues for Pakistan and the specific decision makers at this sensitive time.
 
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