Could K-8 Karakorum work as BVRAAM carrier for JF-17?

[Philip the Arab]

sir JF-17 inspired by F-16 which able carry 6 AAM, but remember sir as F-16 or light weight fighter jet project same as our JF-17, i think early version of F-16 till ( Block-15) had have carry 4 AAM same as our JF-17 as for dual racks they also increases a drag hence overall performance parameter of JF-17 and 8 AAM are suited for Heavy air superiority jets like F-15/Su-27 @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Can't drones launch BVRAAMs and let AWACS guide them to target?

Philip, your idea of a wide search radar on an AWACS acting as a targeting radar is not viable imo as they serve different functions. If you want the AWACS to be used to lock targets, if might lose its primary function and that would defeat its purpose.

As an example, look at how missile systems work S300. They generally have a large VHF radar with say a 1000km range. Then they have additional radars with much shorter ranges to actually guide the missiles. The main radar feeds the preliminary information about location, direction etc of the target and continues its primary function of monitoring the airspace. The second radar then takes over with that target approx information that allows it to use focused beams in a much smaller space to locate and track that target and engage it at the appropriate ranges.

Thats how information is also passed on to fighter jets from AEW and AWACS. They tell the jets of the enemy location so the fighter keeps its radar off while getting a picture of the battlefield from the eye in the sky. Once they are ready to engage whichever target, they turn on their radar to get a lock and fire.

That is my rudimentary understanding of how it happens. So I would say forget about AWACS trying to use K-8s or drones to launch A-A weapons. Its not going to happen

Could JF-17 work? It could use weapons on K-8 and launch it from the plane itself thereby increasing BVRAAM capability of PAF against a much more armed enemy. The SD-10 is fire-and-forget after all. Datalink with K-8 would be needed and the ability to input inertial data for firing. 2 K-8 Karakorums and 1 JF-17 could carry 6 BVRAAMS in total and save other JF-17s from having to fly CAP missions.

K-8 certainly seems like it could carry two 180kg PL-10s.

I have been wondering about lighter jets like BAE Hawk, K-8, and other training jets could carry BVRAAMS and fire them with JF-17s radar working as the plane firing the missiles.

SD-10- is an active radar-guided beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile developed by the People's Republic of China. It is considered comparable to the American AIM-120 AMRAAM and the Russian R-77.

Mass 180 kilograms (400 lb)
Diameter 203 millimetres (8.0 in)
Engine Solid fuel rocket
Operational
range
70–100 kilometres (43–62 mi)

\

The carrying capacity of the K-8 is almost certainly enough to carry two SD-10s with some modifications. Egyptian K-8s have 4 hardpoints and it seems can carry 250kg Mk 82s.

The JF-17 should in theory be able to have a data link with the K-8 and the ability to input inertial data for the SD-10 to be fired therefore only needing minor modifications.


JF-17 cockpit

In theory, 1 JF-17, and 2 K-8s could go on a CAP with a total of 6 BVRAAMS and even possibly with an AWACS helping the JF-17 find targets. This would free up many JF-17s and F-16s and increase the number of combat sorties. The SD-10 is Fire and Forget which means that all 6 SD-10s could be fired simultaneously.

 

[Mrc]

Can't drones launch BVRAAMs and let AWACS guide them to target?

In future yes .. And this should be possible

 

[Ultima Thule]

Can't drones launch BVRAAMs and let AWACS guide them to target?

Their is not air combat UCAV in any air force, all UCAV only intended for ground attack, close air support, even USAF don't have air combat drone at its arsenal @Philip the Arab

 

[Philip the Arab]

Their is not air combat UCAV in any air force, all UCAV only intended for ground attack, close air support, even USAF don't have air combat drone at its arsenal @Philip the Arab

Do you actually think it would be that hard? All that would be needed was a data link between AWACS, and drone and the ability for AWACS to guide SARH missile until ARH seeker turns on. You can probably even use very long range missile like PL-15.

 

[Philip the Arab]

yes its possible and old tech since 70 F-14 can engage 6 targets simultaneously with its long range AIM-154 Phonix BVR, and RAFALE has also that capability @Philip the Arab

I thought he meant designating all targets at the same time but F&F would be much easier considering continuous guidance isn't needed.




I have noticed that Russian RWR get top priority for aerial radars and ignore ground based radars so can't cheap radar be integrated on small drone and distract SU-30 from engaging SAMs?

 

[Ultima Thule]

In future yes .. And this should be possible

its already old technology RAFALE has that capability to engage 6 target simultaneously as well as F-14 had have this technology to engage 6 targets simultaneously with its lang rang AIM-154 Phonix BVR @Mrc

 

[Philip the Arab]

its already old technology RAFALE has that capability to engage 6 target simultaneously as well as F-14 had have this technology to engage 6 targets simultaneously with its lang rang AIM-154 Phonix BVR @Mrc

He is talking about drones launching A2A missiles but letting AWACS guide instead of needing its own radar.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I thought he meant designating all targets at the same time but F&F would be much easier considering continuous guidance isn't needed.

Fighter jets radars can detect/track 30/40 enemy jets and then radar automatically prioritize/show 6 most dangerous targets to pilots and are talking about IFF (Identification between friend and foe system) @Philip the Arab

 

[Ultima Thule]

He is talking about drones launching A2A missiles but letting AWACS guide instead of needing its own radar.

No its not possible currently radar ange of any projected UCAV didn't reach a Beyond visual level for near future for sure unless UCAV will be the size of fighter jets like F-16/F-15 @Philip the Arab

 

[Philip the Arab]

No its not possible currently radar ange of any projected UCAV didn't reach a Beyond visual level for near future for sure unless UCAV will be the size of fighter jets like F-16/F-15 @Philip the Arab

It could work if UCAV doesn't actually have its own radar but relies on other fighter jets and AWACS to guide the missiles and input inertial data for it.
SD-10 missile is 200kg each so all that would be needed is getting drone 600-800 kg to hold even two of them each at a much cheaper price than any fighter jet.

Even K-8 Karakorum could work if JF-17 acts as AWACS and has datalink. K-8 could probably carry at least a few SD-10s.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)
You think K-8 Karakorum could work as I said?

 

[Ultima Thule]

I'm saying that if SU-30MKI detects it is being tracked or being searched by aerial radars it will prioritize the aerial threat and lower threat of ground based radars thereby allowing SAMs to operate with less countermeasures while SU-30MKI is focused on perceived aerial threat being F-16, JF-17, etc while it is actually a cheap search radar integrated on drone.

And this CHEAP DRONE AIR SEARCH RADAR will NOT HAVE ENOUGH RANGE TO DETECT THREATS AT LONG RANGES HENCE USELESS FOR AIR COMBAT and by the way stick to the topic this thread is not for UAV UCAV DISCUSSION, THIS THREAD IS FOR JF-17 BLOCK-3 DEVELOPMENT @Philip the Arab

 

[Philip the Arab]

And this CHEAP DRONE AIR SEARCH RADAR will NOT HAVE ENOUGH RANGE TO DETECT THREATS AT LONG RANGES HENCE USELESS FOR AIR COMBAT and by the way stick to the topic this thread is not for UAV UCAV DISCUSSION, THIS THREAD IS FOR JF-17 BLOCK-3 DEVELOPMENT @Philip the Arab

Allright, where should I post this if you want to discuss it more?

 

[Ultima Thule]

It could work if UCAV doesn't actually have its own radar but relies on other fighter jets and AWACS to guide the missiles and input inertial data for it.
SD-10 missile is 200kg each so all that would be needed is getting drone 600-800 kg to hold even two of them each at a much cheaper price than any fighter jet.

Even K-8 Karakorum could work if JF-17 acts as AWACS and has datalink. K-8 could probably carry at least a few SD-10s.

And mean design philosophy behind the UCAV/UAV DEVELOPMENT IS THAT NOT BRING YOUR PRECIOUS PILOTS/EQUIPMENT (FIGHTER JETS) INTO ENEMY HARMS WAY AND YOU NEGLECTING THAT FACT bro and KEEP YOUR STUPID THEORIES BY YOURSELVES, AIR FORCES OF THE WORLD KNOWS BETTER THEN BOTH OF US WHAT ARE THEY DOING @Philip the Arab

 

[Philip the Arab]

And mean design philosophy behind the UCAV/UAV DEVELOPMENT IS THAT NOT BRING YOUR PRECIOUS PILOTS/EQUIPMENT (FIGHTER JETS) INTO ENEMY HARMS WAY AND YOU NEGLECTING THAT FACT bro and KEEP YOUR STUPID THEORIES BY YOURSELVES, AIR FORCES OF THE WORLD KNOWS BETTER THEN BOTH OF US WHAT ARE THEY DOING @Philip the Arab

Uh,? Only a few pilots and crew would be needed on AWACS and a couple of drones carrying BVRAAMs. All of the UCAVs would be controlled from the ground as I said and communication between drone ground stations, and AWACS concerning Indian aerial target data being gathered and sent to drones directly which leads to drone operators dropping missiles which would fly towards targets and drones could return to base. Losing one UCAV means nothing compared to a fighter pilot.

 

[Mrc]

It could work if UCAV doesn't actually have its own radar but relies on other fighter jets and AWACS to guide the missiles and input inertial data for it.
SD-10 missile is 200kg each so all that would be needed is getting drone 600-800 kg to hold even two of them each at a much cheaper price than any fighter jet.

Even K-8 Karakorum could work if JF-17 acts as AWACS and has datalink. K-8 could probably carry at least a few SD-10s.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)
You think K-8 Karakorum could work as I said?

There is a buddy UAV.under development in Russia and already taking its test flights. .. It will accompany fighters into combat basically as an air to air or air to ground ordinance carier. ...

It looks like b2 bomber u can Google it