Construction of Pak Navy's first MILGEM-class ship begins

[ANMDT]

proprietary VLS

That would make us happy, but unfortunately I class will be commissioned around the same time as J class and it will have Mk41 instead of Turkish VLS. For rest of the ships it is planned but it is not for sure yet.
Also Turkish VLS will extend sea trials and test procedures and may cause 6 months to a year delay for the first ship.

 

[aziqbal]

I have been saying this before, PN Helicopter fleet is in a dire state. Alouttes are finished, Sea King, even with upgrade, is very old. Also too big for Corvette. Z-9C is OK, but maybe not compatible with Western systems. Ideally we need SH-60 Seahawk but this is US so PN will not go for it. My guess is they will try and Navalise a version of AW139 that PAF has

Could be we station a platoon of Marines/SSG on the ships if/when needed

Yes I think AW139 is a good choice

a medium sized not too expensive European helicopter, we dont always need to buy everything Chinese

4 x Jinnah class + 4 x Type 054A + 2 x OPV we have 10 new warships

we need 24 x AW139 split into two squadrons, they are around $15 million each it will cost about the same as a warship but that would be a price worth paying

lets just say we had to buy another Type 054A and it came in the form of 24 helicopters but our capability will be enhanced many fold

 

[Yasser76]

Yes I think AW139 is a good choice

a medium sized not too expensive European helicopter, we dont always need to buy everything Chinese

4 x Jinnah class + 4 x Type 054A + 2 x OPV we have 10 new warships

we need 24 x AW139 split into two squadrons, they are around $15 million each it will cost about the same as a warship but that would be a price worth paying

lets just say we had to buy another Type 054A and it came in the form of 24 helicopters but our capability will be enhanced many fold

Totally agree. One area where US/Europe dominate rest of the world

 

[Arsalan]

Bro it's no mystery,

I agree boss. Part of it is not a mystery, the things you mentioned about #4 being different etc.

KSEW will build both #3 and #4, yet there's still explicit emphasis on #4 being different than #1-3. So, #4 will be different in some capacity, and it's called a "frigate." It also seems that they'll configure VLS to all ships, since #1 clearly shows us a VLS. @cabatli_53 and I theorized #4 could be the I-Class frigate.

THIS is the mystery part. This is what we were discussing. In my opinion the first three will be based on Ada class corvettes but will have more weapons like VLS. That is why i called these "something between Ada Class Corvettes and Istanbul Class Frigates". To explain it further, in my view, these first three corvetts will be larger length, only slightly more displacement and with a VLS as well as a different CIWS. It will be interesting to know which AAW missile PN goes for with the VLS.

For the fourth ship, the one to be designed and developed here in Pakistan, i do not think it will exactly be an Istanbul class frigate. By the time we reach construction phase of that ship Turkey most probably would have complete one or two (at least) Istanbul class frigates and will be working on technology evaluation for the FT-2000 AAW frigates which are envisioned as the third phase of project Milgem. So at that time, this fourth boat is likely to be something between Istanbul class and FT-2000

Unlikely (ITAR). It's either the VLS for the LY-80N, or SYLVER via MBDA Italy (for CAMM-ER, if the PN opts for that instead). Or a proprietary VLS from Turkey or South Africa for the Hisar or Umkhonto, respectively.

LY-80N may be too big and heavy for these ships. Should PN consider LY-60 based on SD-10 for this? Wont that make sense? Anyway, i think PN will decide to get non-Chinese weapon and sensors with these ships to keep the western or other option open!
CAMM-ER will be excellent choice but the question is $$ and availability. I think the Turkish Hisar can be a good option. A new system, one that can be used on future ships too (as it is likely that these four wont be the only ones we build with Turkey). HOWEVER, that may not be possible too because even Turkey is likely to go for Mk 41 in their first Istanbul class frigates indicating the Turkish VLS for Hisar is not ready.

@ANMDT @cabatli_53

Yes I think AW139 is a good choice

a medium sized not too expensive European helicopter, we don't always need to buy everything Chinese

4 x Jinnah class + 4 x Type 054A + 2 x OPV we have 10 new warships

we need 24 x AW139 split into two squadrons, they are around $15 million each it will cost about the same as a warship but that would be a price worth paying

lets just say we had to buy another Type 054A and it came in the form of 24 helicopters but our capability will be enhanced many fold

Absolutely agreed! We do not more ASW Helicopters. Ship borne as well as some with extra range so these can be operated from shore bases as well. Western option is most likely to be pursued. I do feel that PN wont want Chinese tech with the ships we are going to build with Turkey. It will be a smart thing to do as well.

 

[T-123456]

That said, what about the AW149? It's as close as the PN can get to the UH-60/S-70-class helicopter in terms of size (troop carrying, sensor load, defensive aid suite load, etc). Leonardo can navalize that too...

What about the Gökbey TAI T625 if ready?

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

What about the Gökbey TAI T625 if ready?

It is hard to be ready as a platform in 2023. And it's will very expensive compared to Italian product.

 

[T-123456]

It is hard to be ready as a platform in 2023. And it's will very expensive compared to Italian product.

Why more expensive?

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Why more expensive?

How do you plan to produce T625 cheaper than thousands of AW139 helicopters ever built?

 

[T-123456]

How do you plan to produce T625 cheaper than thousands of AW139 helicopters ever built?

Dont we have lower production costs?
The T625 is supposed to become a strong competitor,no?
A new cheaper platform with all configurations possible.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Dont we have lower production costs?
The T625 is supposed to become a strong competitor,no?
A new cheaper platform with all configurations possible.

We produce the T625 because we can produce them not to be competitive in the market.

 

[waz]

Pakistan's Jinnah class, the pumped up version of the Milgem, just short of the Istanbul class. I can't wait for this ship to be built and unveiled.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I agree boss. Part of it is not a mystery, the things you mentioned about #4 being different etc.


THIS is the mystery part. This is what we were discussing. In my opinion the first three will be based on Ada class corvettes but will have more weapons like VLS. That is why i called these "something between Ada Class Corvettes and Istanbul Class Frigates". To explain it further, in my view, these first three corvetts will be larger length, only slightly more displacement and with a VLS as well as a different CIWS. It will be interesting to know which AAW missile PN goes for with the VLS.

For the fourth ship, the one to be designed and developed here in Pakistan, i do not think it will exactly be an Istanbul class frigate. By the time we reach construction phase of that ship Turkey most probably would have complete one or two (at least) Istanbul class frigates and will be working on technology evaluation for the FT-2000 AAW frigates which are envisioned as the third phase of project Milgem. So at that time, this fourth boat is likely to be something between Istanbul class and FT-2000


LY-80N may be too big and heavy for these ships. Should PN consider LY-60 based on SD-10 for this? Wont that make sense? Anyway, i think PN will decide to get non-Chinese weapon and sensors with these ships to keep the western or other option open!
CAMM-ER will be excellent choice but the question is $$ and availability. I think the Turkish Hisar can be a good option. A new system, one that can be used on future ships too (as it is likely that these four wont be the only ones we build with Turkey). HOWEVER, that may not be possible too because even Turkey is likely to go for Mk 41 in their first Istanbul class frigates indicating the Turkish VLS for Hisar is not ready.

@ANMDT @cabatli_53


Absolutely agreed! We do not more ASW Helicopters. Ship borne as well as some with extra range so these can be operated from shore bases as well. Western option is most likely to be pursued. I do feel that PN wont want Chinese tech with the ships we are going to build with Turkey. It will be a smart thing to do as well.

For the J-Class' AAW, there are basically three options:

1. LY-80N -- likeliest.
2. CAMM-ER
3. Umkhonto EIR / Umkhonto ER (Marlin)

I'm not too worried about the LY-80N's weight, if the PN told AFSAT/Turkey that it was a contender, then the OEM likely did the tests beforehand to see if it's workable.

The Italian gov't only started funding the CAMM-ER again because it said Pakistan was interested, so I think it's available. It is a high-cost system, but Italy can offer a credit line/loan to back it.

The Umkhonto EIR / ER / Marlin can come with ToT.

 

[YeBeWarned]

For the J-Class' AAW, there are basically three options:

1. LY-80N -- likeliest.
2. CAMM-ER
3. Umkhonto EIR / Umkhonto ER (Marlin)

I'm not too worried about the LY-80N's weight, if the PN told AFSAT/Turkey that it was a contender, then the OEM likely did the tests beforehand to see if it's workable.

The Italian gov't only started funding the CAMM-ER again because it said Pakistan was interested, so I think it's available. It is a high-cost system, but Italy can offer a credit line/loan to back it.

The Umkhonto EIR / ER / Marlin can come with ToT.

Wasn't CAMM-ER was Proposed along with SPADA-2000 Mobile version back in 2016 ? I have had a vague memory of noticing that on their section at Ideas .

Yes I think AW139 is a good choice

a medium sized not too expensive European helicopter, we dont always need to buy everything Chinese

4 x Jinnah class + 4 x Type 054A + 2 x OPV we have 10 new warships

we need 24 x AW139 split into two squadrons, they are around $15 million each it will cost about the same as a warship but that would be a price worth paying

lets just say we had to buy another Type 054A and it came in the form of 24 helicopters but our capability will be enhanced many fold

4 Upgraded F-22P's , you missed that ..

I have been saying this before, PN Helicopter fleet is in a dire state. Alouttes are finished, Sea King, even with upgrade, is very old. Also too big for Corvette. Z-9C is OK, but maybe not compatible with Western systems. Ideally we need SH-60 Seahawk but this is US so PN will not go for it. My guess is they will try and Navalise a version of AW139 that PAF has

AW139 would make much of the sense as the recent purchase by the Army for SAR, we know we operate a good amount of them in Pakistan with a logistical support structure already in place, maybe we can get some sort of Production rights with a good enough order for the navy, but that is too much Sheikh chilli thinking ..

Pakistan's Jinnah class, the pumped up version of the Milgem, just short of the Istanbul class. I can't wait for this ship to be built and unveiled.

For some reason I believe that Jinnah Class will not be based on ADA, it might keep a haul or other structural Similarities but i think if they will come up with a different design , somewhere which kinda reflect the ADA+Type54's of PN .

 

[waz]

For some reason I believe that Jinnah Class will not be based on ADA, it might keep a haul or other structural Similarities but i think if they will come up with a different design , somewhere which kinda reflect the ADA+Type54's of PN .

Based on, as because it is after all the first of its line, but bigger for the requirements needed.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

4 Upgraded F-22P's , you missed that

Don't they have Z9EC?