Congressi Propaganda: Hindu Majority provinces and Muslim Majority provinces can't live together

[adwityagrata]

Mr.Gandhi's idea of secularism was flawed in some way. He splendidly failed to understand the sentiments of Muslim educated class inspired by the life of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan. The Muslim upper echelons who were at the forefront of dividing the Subcontinent were very much inclined towards a Pakistan within India.This class abhorred the Muslim reactionaries,the faction which once issued fatwa to kill Sir Syed when he started his quest for a different world for Indian Muslims.

Gandhi along with other leaders like Maulana Azad, Zafar Ali Khan,Saukat Ali etc completely overlooked the absurdity of Khilafat movement (which demands a separate thread for itself).Congressi leadership, overwhelmed by the super flux support in the country disastrously ignored the hidden but swift flow of antagonism of the educated,liberal professional class among the Muslims.Their ignorance about the liberal,democratic and tolerant Islam had grave and monumental consequences which finally led to partition.

Gandhi understood Syed Ahmed and his kind of muslim elite. But he also recognized that the real strengths came from the teeming masses who Syed Ahmed did not represent.

Gandhi did not care about what secularism meant. He had accepted that muslims is much more intolerant and aggressive than the Hindus and worked that into this equation to formulate a mass movement. He was a classic Baniya, in a manner of speaking. His objective was to gain popular support that will strengthen demands for the british to quit India. He supported Khilafat because that is what was required to gain muslim trust and support of the muslim masses. He was a canny politician. People fail to recognize the political face of Gandhi in order to glorify him and his philosophy.

This is also why he quietly agreed to the partition of India. He was fist and foremost a politician with his ears to the ground and what he heard had convinced him not to fight against the tide.

I think you are confusing two things.

1. --- Hindutva and Congress behavior specific to 1947 Hindu Majority Provinces (HMPs)
2. --- Political stubbornness of Hindutva and Congress brigades specific to 1947 Muslim Majority Provinces (MMPs).

#1 is easy to explain. Obviously you are just keeping large majority happy and small minority pliant and quiet.
#2 is the issue of this thread. When Congress and Hindutva totally and utterly failed to grasp even the basic understanding.

You first need to explain what is your definition of Hindutva.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Gandhi did not care about what secularism meant. He had accepted that muslims is much more intolerant and aggressive

Yeap. Gandhi made mockery of secularism. Gandhi supported Khilafat Movement while Jinnah opposed this $tupid movement.

All the Mullahs the sole owners of "faith" were in Gandhi's camp.

Congress in its stupidity accepted Mullahtic faith and reject the secular minded Muslims.

Hope you understand this time.

You first need to explain what is your definition of Hindutva.

Start reading from the fountain head named Savarkar.

Thank you

 

[adwityagrata]

Yeap. Gandhi made mockery of secularism. Gandhi supported Khilafat Movement while Jinnah opposed this $tupid movement.
All the Mullahs the sole owners of "faith" were in Gandhi's camp.
Congress in its stupidity accepted Mullahtic faith and reject the secular minded Muslims.
Hope you understand this time.

What is there to understand. you are quoting me and agreeing with me or visa versa.

If you are saying that the congress did not have a principled stand, then I agree. The bigger fight was against the British and so certain principles got bent to gain allies.

Gandhi was a democratic politician first and then a social reformer. His attempts at social reform was secondary to his political goal and in fact was to support his political goal. He did not have the responsibility to reform muslim society or even Hindu society for that matter. He did whatever little he could but left it at that. That should have been jinnah's job.

But Jinnah too was a politician first and no social reformer. So he hankered after power leaving the muslim masses without any genuine leader. This much is accepted and understood.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....The bigger fight was against the British and so certain principles got bent to gain allies.

AGain you are trying to fit history into your preconceived notions.


Three round table conferences of 1930s were clear proof that Brits wanted to leave. They were begging all the big name politicians including Gandhi to quit their drama bazi and figure out a way to form an inclusive government in Dilli.


Gandhi in particualr and Hindus in general were saying we don't care about inclusive government in Dilli.

you Brits give us power and we will straighten these Musalmaans in no time.

Now you should know where the real fight was. It wasn't against Brits.

New thing for you.


Right?

 

[Nair saab]

That would be pathetic. Won't it?

NS dear,

if you read OP, no one is blaming the failure or success on Hindus or Muslims.

The thread is about mainstream leaders who advocated kicking out Muslim Majority Provinces (MMPs) from cutting them off from Hindu Majority Provinces (HMPs)


Hope you understand.

Look today i am happy that Partition happened ... what ever be the case... or who ever is the reason behind it ... who really cares

 

[adwityagrata]

AGain you are trying to fit history into your preconceived notions.
Three round table conferences of 1930s were clear proof that Brits wanted to leave. They were begging all the big name politicians including Gandhi to quit their drama bazi and figure out a way to form an inclusive government in Dilli.
Gandhi in particualr and Hindus in general were saying we don't care about inclusive government in Dilli.
you Brits give us power and we will straighten these Musalmaans in no time.
Now you should know where the real fight was. It wasn't against Brits.
New thing for you.
Right?

1930 round table conference was about the Simon commission and it clearly showed that British had no intention of leaving India. It was their attempt to somehow make a show of constitution reform and sucker Indians into accepting their terms and conditions to continue their rule in India. Which is why the congress rejected it.

Congress was clear about self rule and Swaraj. Since the conference did not promise that, they rejected it. The fight was and continued to be against the British.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Look today i am happy that Partition happened ... what ever be the case... or who ever is the reason behind it ... who really cares

Hindutva and Congressis of 1940s too were just as happy if not more, with the thought of kicking out

MMPs (Muslim Majority Provinces) and chopping them from HMPs (Hindu Majority Provinces).

It is just that after 1947 they turned around and started printing bad history in the books of little Indian Kids.


peace

1930 round table conference was about the Simon commission and it clearly showed that British had no intention of leaving India. It was their attempt to somehow make a show of constitution reform and sucker Indians into accepting their terms and conditions to continue their rule in India. Which is why the congress rejected it.

Congress was clear about self rule and Swaraj. Since the conference did not promise that, they rejected it. The fight was and continued to be against the British.

OK yaar.

If the sarkari school history books make you happy happy happy.

Then who am I to burst the bubble.

Peace

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Hindutva and Congressis of 1940s too were just as happy if not more, with the thought of kicking out

MMPs (Muslim Majority Provinces) and chopping them from HMPs (Hindu Majority Provinces).

It is just that after 1947 they turned around and started printing bad history in the books of little Indian Kids.


peace



OK yaar.

If the sarkari school history books make you happy happy happy.

Then who am I to burst the bubble.

Peace

You can win arguments with trolls that won't help. The idea that congress wanted to 'bifurcate' the subcontinent right from the start is ludicrous.

 

[FaujHistorian]

You can win arguments with trolls that won't help. The idea that congress wanted to 'bifurcate' the subcontinent right from the start is ludicrous.

Yes obviously it would be ludicrous if you happen to use the standard government approved history books.

That's the point.

 

[adwityagrata]

If the sarkari school history books make you happy happy happy.
Then who am I to burst the bubble.

Your conclusion is amusing.

The simon commission awarded separate electorate for Dalits, Muslims, Europeans, Sikhs, Christians, Ango Indians and Maratha's

The whole point was to fracture Indian polity and render it impotent. To encourage infighting so that the british raj remains safe.

You are extra eager to find ways to shift the blame away from muslims. The reality is that congress represented the Hindus and the muslims in 1930. .... whatever makes you happy happy happy. LOL.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Your conclusion is amusing.

The simon commission awarded separate electorate for Dalits, Muslims, Europeans, Sikhs, Christians, Ango Indians and Maratha's

The whole point was to fracture Indian polity and render it impotent. To encourage infighting so that the british raj remains safe.

You are extra eager to find ways to shift the blame away from muslims. The reality is that congress represented the Hindus and the muslims in 1930. .... whatever makes you happy happy happy. LOL.

Looks like you have nothing to add to the OP

and now delving back into government approved history books.

Sadly

 

[adwityagrata]

Looks like you have nothing to add to the OP
and now delving back into government approved history books.

LOL. What is this govt. approved history books you keep talking about ? You think we are in school ?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Yes obviously it would be ludicrous if you happen to use the standard government approved history books.

That's the point.

lemme see...you have one guy who wants his version of history validated (you) and then you have a rabid right winger whose accomplishments include calling pakistan a small island in arabian sea and ...don't even get me started on test tube baby...both of you will combine for objective history...hmmmm......

 

[Nair saab]

Hindutva and Congressis of 1940s too were just as happy if not more, with the thought of kicking out

MMPs (Muslim Majority Provinces) and chopping them from HMPs (Hindu Majority Provinces).

It is just that after 1947 they turned around and started printing bad history in the books of little Indian Kids.


peace

I dont agree with that part ... in 1947 we Hindu Nationalist where totally against Partition ... and infact that was the main reason y RSS became Anti-Congress...

The Fight became Ugly when one among us Veer Nathuram Godse decided to gun down Gandi for partition and other concession given to Pakistan... ( even today Ashes of veer Nathuram Godse is stored as per his wish that, it will only be immersed when river sindhu flows in India)...

But today most Hindu Nationalist think that what ever happened was good for us... and respect Sardar patel as the real hero cause he managed to grab as much as land and keep India united...


And Congress now and even then had nothing to do with Hindutva and Hindus ... infact most of their leaders where totally against Hindu Nationalist and considered RSS on par with Muslim League even worse...

while very few leaders in congress like Sardar patel was sympathetic with Hindu Nationalist ... But Nehru a Pseudo Socialist and Pseudo Secularist managed to sideline all of these type leaders in congress finally... and net result is a Anti-Hindu Congress today...

Jinnah was a good politician with bad luck... but he kept his loyalty with Muslims... and delivered what he promised to Muslims ...

But Congress ( Nehru and Gandi) never made any promises to Hindus but turned out to be a bad Politician with good luck...

 

[Guynextdoor2]

^^^^ and every now and then we have nair saabji coming into the thread...this is one hell of a discussion