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Confirmation required: BAF to loan one squadron of J-10A.

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I doubt it'll ever happen..if we review Aircraft purchase by both Bangladesh and Mayanmar,both country is preferring Russian Aircraft over Chinese Aircraft.Mayanmar chose Mig-29 SMT over J-10.now,if any malpractice hasn't happened,J-10 is inferior in some terms than Mig-29 SMT,which BD already uses..but hell,even Mig-29 isn't so called preferred aircraft,which is overpriced and a 30-40 years old fighter.if that can win Mig-29 SMT,then I think J-10 is not so great what some guys think it is..


anyway,dig out an old article on J-10's first overseas loss....



On 23rd December 2009 a significant event took place which sadly went under reported. When inane drivel were making its way to the news, the event which established the superiority of a fighter over another went largely unnoticed. It was on that very day the first news regarding results of a competition came out in the open. The Myanmar Air force(Tatmadaw Lei) chose the MiG-29SMT Fulcrum over the much hyped China's J-10, and its smaller cousin which was rejected by China itself- the JF-17 Thunder.

This competition was like no other. On one hand the fulcrum was facing setbacks everywhere. First it was in Malaysia where due to endemic corruption and the interference of Middle men, the spares for the MiG-29s were ridiculously over priced by the time it reached the end user. This prompted Malaysia to retire its MiG-29s prematurely. The second setback was on the Algerian front, where another corruption involving Russian middle men lead to sourcing inferior parts for upgrading the MiG-29s. This lead Algeria to cancel the order, which left the Russians in deep soul searching. Just recently the middle men were arrested and criminal cases initiated against them. There were also wild rumors of Myanmar's MiG-29s being grounded due to poor after sales service(which got proved wrong). Plus SMT Fulcrums are basically mothballed MiG-29S fresh out of factory(during the 1990s but never got inducted into the Russian Air Force because of the poor economic condition of Russia) and is re-sold with SMT upgrades to various countries. The Chinese fighters on the other hand had no such setbacks. In addition to the fact that Myanmar is in China's backyard, the Chinese fighters, especially the J-10 was marketed as "ultra modern" and was even offered highly advantageous price and payment conditions.

However the results of that tender was dramatic.

The J-10 is a product of widespread assistance by the western powers during the years of the Cold war. During the cold war, the U.S encouraged Israel to help the Chinese boost their capabilities against what they considered as the "Evil Empire" which was giving the whole western world & China quite a challenge. China and the Soviet Union were at each other throats after the Soviets refused to bow down to china's demands to return "their" land. After many bloody skirmishes, where the Chinese suffered enormous causalities on the hands of the vastly superior Red Army, there was much bad blood between them. The western powers capitalized on this and began to rub shoulders with the Chinese. The Chinese too sold them J-7s to be used on the U.S DACT(Dissimilar Air Combat Training) simulating Soviet fighters. In the midst of this Honey moon, Israel starting sharing their technology with the blessings of Washington. And on top of that list(and a prime candidate since that project was stopped and was not in active service), was the Israeli Lavi.

However before Israel can offer full assistance, the Tienanmen massacre led to an abrupt halt to the help. However the Chinese still retained all the blueprints and even a Lavi mock-up. It was only natural for the Chinese Aerospace having done nothing but copying and reverse engineering fighters for the past 4 decades, to continue reverse engineering the Lavi. The cold war ended and China found itself partnering with its former enemy to ask for help. The Russian engineers who came out in the open reported several blueprints of Lavi in Hebrew! Russians who were cash strapped at this point agreed to help and also offered their engine. After a lot of reverse engineering and a few prototype crashes, J-10 finally flew. The Chinese fan boys were instantly captivated by the "beautiful" Israeli fighter and began over hyping its performance. The fighter was so secretive that only recently did china accept its existence. The first battle for this fighter was against the JF-17 which was a cheap project built on the Super-7(Super J-7) project. The J-10 clearly came out winning on the specs, which lead the PLAAF putting all its money on J-10 and ditching the JF-17, which at this point was referred as Junk Fighter -17 by the aviation community. After the triumphant domestic win, J-10's first real competition outside its motherland was in its neighborhood, Myanmar. There it was pitted against the MiG-29, Soviet Union's First Fourth Generation Fighter.

Inspite of the other advantages heaped on the Chinese fighters, the result is that only the superior fighter wins.
J-10 with its single engine was more risky compared to the twin engined MiG-29. It looses out on Thrust to Weight ratio to the MiG-29SMT. Its G-limits are unknown, as is its range, while Mig-29SMTs data is well known(9Gs and 1800kms without drop tanks). It shares 95% commonality with MiG-29UPG & can share or have a constant flow of spares & after sales support with the Indian Air Force's spare parts vendor. Its stall performance and recovery is unknown, while MiG-29 is known for breath taking stall maneuvers... hence getting out of a stall for a MiG-29 is a piece of cake. It has 7 hardpoints which can be increased to 11 with multi locks and can carry atleast 6 BVR missiles, while J-10 has 7 Weapon Hardpoints(and few pod station hardpoints which can only be used for pods, and less-than 100kg dumb bombs). Out of the 7, it can carry BVR missiles on only 2 hardpoints with dual racks, so a total of only 4 BVR missiles. It can carry 5 tonnes in weapon tonnage while J10's unknown. However some Chinese fan boys claim 4.5 tonnes and some even 6 tonnes. In avionics, there is the clear Russian superiority over Chinese copies. Taking all these facts into consideration, it's no wonder that the MiG-29SMT fulcrum was chosen over a Chinese plane. Apart from the desperate and poor PAF, which has no reliable & cheap suppliers, it seems there is no one else who is willing to take this Chinese fighter yet.

There is little doubt now that the Chinese J-10 has suffered a blow to its prestige with its very first overseas defeat to the MiG-29SMT Fulcrum.

China's J-10 suffered its first overseas defeat to the MiG-29 Fulcrum

That's an opinion piece, and from angelfire no less. Don't take anything it says seriously.

Excellent, gettin a BAF pilot to defect to India with a J-10 should be the next RAW mission.

Which is why this will never happen. If regular Indian members on an internet forum know what's going to happen, we can be damn sure the Chinese do too.
 
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He has a point, no matter how poorly worded it may be. BD's current gov is too pro-India for China to risk their technology falling into the hands of India.

Most of the sensitive tech that the J 10 uses is actually also used by India in some shape or form(both being Russian allies)......His concern would be much more fitting if China was giving us the J-31....well it is not...and the J-10 is not that sensitive of a tech.And our civilian administration does not control our military complex.So no even if Sonia gandhi was our Prime Minister India wouldn't be getting anything from us.
 
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China J-10 Jet Fighter: How Much Do We Know? (Part-1)
by Richard Fisher, Jr.
Published on January 16th, 2007

Since late December 2006 China has been rolling out its Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) Jian-10 (Fighter-10, or J-10) multi-role fighter, with some publicity. We have seen unprecedented video[1] and print press coverage[2] of the fighter and interviews with prominent members of the CAC design team.[3] The purposes seem to be, first, to demonstrate to Chinese and foreigners alike that China can build her own "indigenous" aircraft itself, without relying on foreign help, and second, that as a responsible "rising power," China has nothing to hide from the world (the theme of the National Defense White Paper of December 29, 2006).

But the whole exercise has also been conspicuous for what it lacks. First, no official data have been provided regarding the actual capabilities and performance of the J-10. And second, we have heard little or nothing from the many Israeli and Russian engineers who helped make this aircraft possible.

From the early 1990s to the present period the J-10 has been viewed by government and non-government analysts as a key indicator of Chinese military potential, and as such, has been an object of intense scrutiny and speculation. In 1997 the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence produced speculative artist imagery of the J-10 (an honor previously reserved for mysterious new Soviet combat aircraft) estimating that an eventual twin-engine version would fly off a future Chinese aircraft carrier. But at about the same time, many U.S. government and non-government analysts regarded the J-10 (and the idea of Chinese aircraft carriers) as far-fetched.

American Estimates: In 1997 the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence produced speculative imagery of a twin-engine J-10 flying form a future Chinese aircraft carrier, which at that time, was an estimate viewed by some U.S. analysts as 塗umorous. Credit: Office of Naval Intelligence
The J-10 program started in the 1960s with the J-9, a canard (horizontal stabilizer in front of the wing) fighter (like the J-10) which resembled the Swedish JA-37 Viggen. The J-9 was conceived of then, in the years of the Sino-Soviet confrontation, as short take-off and fast climbing interceptor to ward of invading Soviet aircraft.

Work started at the Shenyang Aircraft Company, but was switched to CAC. As time passed, however, with no plane, the concept of the J-10 evolved into that of a full multi-role fighter. The Chinese would like the world to believe that the J-10 is "designed and made entirely in China."[4] However, over the course of its development the J-10 required substantial technical and consulting inputs from Israel and then Russia. The J-10痴 basic configuration has clear influences from the Israeli Aircraft Industries Lavi,-- an aircraft program, never completed, that was largely paid for by the United States.[5] These include its underslug air intake and slightly anhedral delta wings. What appears to be a likely early concept for the J-10 even copies the Lavi痴 vertical stabilizer.

The J-10 is furthermore completely "fly by wire," or computer driven, an achievement probably to be credited to Israeli consultants, who in turn may in turn have relied on their exposure to U.S. technology associated with the pioneering fly-by-wire Lockheed-Martin F-16. Chengdu did develop its own system, however, which it tested on a modified JJ-6 training aircraft.

Finally, the J-10 was developed in considerable secrecy. Planned debuts in previous years were evidently canceled. The aircraft has been unveiled just now not as a prototype but as an aircraft already in production and serving with the PLA air force. What do we know about it?
 
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Most of the sensitive tech that the J 10 uses is actually also used by India in some shape or form(both being Russian allies)......His concern would be much more fitting if China was giving us the J-31....well it is not...and the J-10 is not that sensitive of a tech.And our civilian administration does not control our military complex.So no even if Sonia gandhi was our Prime Minister India wouldn't be getting anything from us.

I do not think the talks should be India-centric or how India will steal J-10A technology. Any way, it is your choice. But, if Indian posters are given too importance in this thread the discussion will change its course, or has it not already?
 
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Most of the sensitive tech that the J 10 uses is actually also used by India in some shape or form(both being Russian allies)......His concern would be much more fitting if China was giving us the J-31....well it is not...and the J-10 is not that sensitive of a tech.And our civilian administration does not control our military complex.So no even if Sonia gandhi was our Prime Minister India wouldn't be getting anything from us.

It's not the stealing part that China is worrying about. If India has a chance to inspect the J-10s, they can effectively find it's strengths and weaknesses through a thorough examination. It's similar to what happened to the Mig-25 foxbat when Viktor Belenko, a Soviet pilot, defected to Japan with the plane. The US already had similar technology, if not superior, but the chance to inspect the plane gave the US valuable insight into Russia tech philosophy and doctrine. This helped them build better weapons to counter the Soviet threat.
 
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There have been persistent rumors that BAF is interested in J-10 B. Nothing beyond that rumor. To appease BAF, F-7BG was acquired. We here are discussing whether China will be willing to provide the J-10 to BAF. But the real question here is: will Delhi allow BAF to seek this offensive weapon? For her survival, Hasina has outsourced BD's defense and foreign affairs to Delhi.
 
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BD already has 8 Mig29 (including 2 trainers), that's a time-tested potent weapon, I think BD should increase that number to a meaningful one and should also focus on upgrading them. Buying a new platform involves creacting entire infrastructure for its maintanance; a total waste of money and creating further complications in logistics. Exploiting the existing platform to its full potential is better.
 
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BD already has 8 Mig29 (including 2 trainers), that's a time-tested potent weapon, I think BD should increase that number to a meaningful one and should also focus on upgrading them. Buying a new platform involves creacting entire infrastructure for its maintanance; a total waste of money and creating further complications in logistics. Exploiting the existing platform to its full potential is better.

Bd also has China made F-7 jets, too. Point here is BAF will shortly start induction seriously. It will enlarge its fleet from now on. If BAF really purchases the J-10As these will not be its last induction. There will be perhaps a total of nine sq. of planes in the immediate future. So, by the time it buys more developed ones of the same series in the future, BAF has already built a strong platform by then.
 
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First, whether China willing to export J-10 to a 3rd country. Certainly they do and they have export version for that too. If so then where would they export that toy to other than Pakistan? Bangladesh is the 2nd biggest importer of Chinese weapons after Pakistan.
 
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BD already has 8 Mig29 (including 2 trainers), that's a time-tested potent weapon, I think BD should increase that number to a meaningful one and should also focus on upgrading them. Buying a new platform involves creacting entire infrastructure for its maintanance; a total waste of money and creating further complications in logistics. Exploiting the existing platform to its full potential is better.

Sorry dray but the mig 29s are essentially 70s tech, even though they have been constantly upgraded, they were designed to take on early versions of the F16. On top of that they are actually very expensive to maintain for what they are even Malaysia found that to there cost, are hardly fly any of them, infact considering the capability of the mig 29s and the far more capable SUs the maintenance costs aren't that much more.

It is actually a good option, if true to lease a squadron of these J10s and wait until our economy expands to $250bn in the next 5-10 years and our defence expenditure almost triples. By which time the J31 exports will be available and affordable.
 
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