Confirmation required: BAF to loan one squadron of J-10A.

[eastwatch]

Guys,

What is BD going to do with those planes ?

Why are they required ?

We also wonder why Pakistan needs such a large army and so many planes. Unfortunately, this is causing India to enlarge its forces proportionately. This again poses a problem for India's neighbours with historical enemity.

War or no war, and no one can really predict a war, BD needs to improve its military strength step by step that also include a few sq of 4G planes.

A strong army may work as a deterrence against the possibility of war. So, we are spending billions of dollars to buy peace indirectly in our part of south Asia.

 

[kalu_miah]

An additional information,

Bangladesh may not be able to afford it.

The reason is not upfront cost but massive running costs.

WS-10 Engine need to be replaced after a flight of 500 hrs while comparable Russian Engine lasts for 3000Hrs and Western/US ones last for 6000Hrs. This is the reason that even Pakistanis do not want to buy it even though China is offering soft loans for J-10.

Unless bangladesh wants to ground it's airforce, F-16 would be best option.

@SinoSoldier can you please address the bold part above.

 

[dray]

Why are Indian "friends and well wishers" trying to convince Bangladeshi's that they should not go for Chinese jets?

I think we should go for Chinese jets regardless of costs down the line, because that is where our future is, so we should start developing more relationship with Chinese Aerospace industry.

Russian planes and engines will soon loose their quality edge against the Chinese, its a matter of a decade max and Western tech is out of the question, as it is either too expensive or not available to us due to political considerations of not being a close US/Western ally.

All our future defense purchases should be with the Chinese.

Please go for any jet you fancy!! In any case, convincing some PDF members won't change anything!!

@SinoSoldier can you please address the bold part above.

WS series engines are not ready yet, will take time to mature.

 

[Sinnerman108]

We have two neighbors:

- India, it has a huge air force, army and navy and they surround us from all sides
- Myanmar, it has a few hundred mile long border in the South and a maritime space in Maritime Economic zone

India is no match for us, so just like Pakistan, Bangladesh wants to raise its level of relationship with China so eventually we can become a part of security partnership like eastern NATO (SCO extended to South East Asia), to balance the threat from India.

Myanmar is close to China as well, so there is little possibility of major conflict, as both nations are close to China, but yet we have some minor issues like Rohingya, Maritime border (which has been settled in UNCLOS arbitration) etc. So we need to make sure that our forces maintain superiority over Myanmar forces to guard against any adventurism from them.

By the way, Yzd mentioned you are Saudi national, why do you have Pakistan flag, is it ok to ask? Do you live in Pakistan?

Fine .. OK.
But BD's current diplomatic stance is pro india.
The BD government has made sure it is on India's right side; and after the foot hole that India will get in BD politics
I doubt any subsequent BD government will stray from this line.

We also wonder why Pakistan needs such a large army and so many planes. Unfortunately, this is causing India to enlarge its forces proportionately. This again poses a problem for India's neighbours with historical enemity.

War or no war, and no one can really predict a war, BD needs to improve its military strength step by step that also include a few sq of 4G planes.

A strong army may work as a deterrence against the possibility of war. So, we are spending billions of dollars to buy peace indirectly in our part of south Asia.

What is wrong with you ?

 

[Akasa]

@SinoSoldier can you please address the bold part above.

The truth is there is not one single credible source on the Internet that actually has any of flight hours; however, the fact that they are in service with the J-11B implies that its service life should be sufficient.

WS series engines are not ready yet, will take time to mature.

WS-10A is already in service with the J-11B, and are used to test the J-15, J-16, and J-10B prototypes. You NEVER use an unreliable engine to test prototypes, and the fact that they did use the engine to test them is more than enough proof of its merit.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

see, the point is, every country has their own threat perception.... we have respect for the perception of Pakistan.... and there's no debate that you know about Pakistan's threat perception better than us, as that is logical..... perhaps you should also take the perception of Bangladeshis seriously, as we live in this country and we deal with India and Myanmar on a daily basis... our perception says that we need to keep a deterrent whether we have a pro-India government or Pro-Any-other-country government in power.... our military aims have hardly changed over the years even through many political changes.... the arms procurement is suggested by the military and planned for years, whereas civilian govt. decides whether they can allocate the money for it or not or whether its diplomatic consequences are favourable.... the point is, the threat perception doesn't really change.... we have two neighbours and these two neghbours will be there whether the current government is in power or not.... btw, there is every possibility that the current government may not stay in power for long.....

What is wrong with you ?

 

[Sinnerman108]

see, the point is, every country has their own threat perception.... we have respect for the perception of Pakistan.... and there's no debate that you know about Pakistan's threat perception better than us, as that is logical..... perhaps you should also take the perception of Bangladeshis seriously, as we live in this country and we deal with India and Myanmar on a daily basis... our perception says that we need to keep a deterrent whether we have a pro-India government or Pro-Any-other-country government in power.... our military aims have hardly changed over the years even through many political changes.... the arms procurement is suggested by the military and planned for years, whereas civilian govt. decides whether they can allocate the money for it or not or whether its diplomatic consequences are favourable.... the point is, the threat perception doesn't really change.... we have two neighbours and these two neghbours will be there whether the current government is in power or not.... btw, there is every possibility that the current government may not stay in power for long.....

You know BD better than I do, and for the last 3-4 posts that is what I am trying to find out.
Please tell me What threat BD perceives, and which countries are involved.
If they are going to get J-10s, then there must be a role and use already defined for them ...
what is that use ? and how will this force be used in future?

 

[Zabaniyah]

Why wouldn't the J-10B meet or exceed it? It has a 1152 module AESA radar, RAM, composites since 50% of its wings alone are composites by mass, IRST, new cockpit, next generation ECM, and a new 132 kN engine.

AESA > PESA. True.

But just because an aircraft uses AESA, doesn't literally mean it is wholly superior to a one using PESA.

The Eurofighter Typhoon for example is a very powerful system, and yet the Europeans haven't fully implemented AESA modules on the EFT platform. There are many things that go into the design.

But, we shall see regarding the J-10B. A very interesting plane.

 

[eastwatch]

The truth is there is not one single credible source on the Internet that actually has any of flight hours; however, the fact that they are in service with the J-11B implies that its service life should be sufficient.

WS-10A is already in service with the J-11B, and are used to test the J-15, J-16, and J-10B prototypes. You NEVER use an unreliable engine to test prototypes, and the fact that they did use the engine to test them is more than enough proof of its merit.

WS-10A is fitted in J-11B and some other planes. But, it does not prove the reliability of this engine. It takes a century to mature a complex jet engine. Western world countries have spent cumulative two centuries to develop and bring to maturity their engines. In comparison, China has only a few decades of experience.

I believe, the WS-10A turbofan engines that China has fitted in its many different types of plane, are now being tested for endurance and reliability.

Russian engines are very reliable, but, by contractual obligation the Chinese cannot export planes with Russian engine. So, China is in a hurry to develop its own jet engines that the importing countries will find reliable.

I am of opinion that BAF should rely more on reliable Russian engines fitted in the J-10As, or it buys Russian planes directly from Russia.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

well, I thought the above discussion gave you some insight into the perceived threats, if it doesn't, then I can mention some of those anew....

1. we have border issues with India and there are regular shootings on the border in which many Bangladeshi die on a regular basis.... I'm sure you have the same experience on your borders; so, no need to explain more....
2. we have outstanding maritime border issues with India.... India even captured an island militarily in 1980 that lies close to Bangladesh-India border.... the UN judgment on this comes in 2014..... this is extremely important because the rising importance of the Bay of Bengal as a massive source of hydrocarbon....
3. there had been one serious border clash between Bangladesh and India in 2001 when official statements say 17 Indian BSF personnel were killed while trying to capture a border out post....
4. there had been regular border tension (troops movements, warship movements) with Myanmar regarding Rohingya refugees and maritime border..... though the border demarcation has been settled by the UN court, BD govt. is still closely observing the adventurism strategy followed by the Myanmar junta....
5. Myanmar had been heavily arming, especially their Navy and Air Force during the past 4-5 years.... search the web a little; it will clear out... even the Myanmar Air Force is much stronger than Bangladesh Air Force on paper.... Myanmar Navy has increased their capability several fold within just 4-5 years....

hope this explains a bit....

You know BD better than I do, and for the last 3-4 posts that is what I am trying to find out.
Please tell me What threat BD perceives, and which countries are involved.
If they are going to get J-10s, then there must be a role and use already defined for them ...
what is that use ? and how will this force be used in future?

 

[kalu_miah]

Fine .. OK.
But BD's current diplomatic stance is pro india.
The BD government has made sure it is on India's right side; and after the foot hole that India will get in BD politics
I doubt any subsequent BD government will stray from this line.

Currently Awami League govt. is in power for another few weeks, their rule ends in Oct. 24 or 25, then we have an election in Jan. 2014. 90% Muslim Bangladeshi's are pro-China, even most Awami League supporters are, only some brain dead morons are pro-India and their days are numbered. They will have to escape with their lives one day, it is a matter of when, not if.

I am not sure if you are Pakistani or Saudi national, what I noticed is that a lot of Pakistani's are feeling kind of childish jealousy if Bangladesh is seeking closer relations with China or even Saudi Arabia. My advice to people like that would be that this should work to Pakistan's advantage in the bigger picture. It will enhance Pakistan's security not diminish it. China or Saudi Arabia having close relations with other Muslim countries is better for all Muslim countries. Let all Muslim nations work for Sino Muslim alliance so we can extend this influence in the rest of the countries in South East Asia, Central Asia and Africa. We can do it together and by avoiding petty infighting among ourselves.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Fine .. OK.
But BD's current diplomatic stance is pro india.
The BD government has made sure it is on India's right side; and after the foot hole that India will get in BD politics
I doubt any subsequent BD government will stray from this line.

The Chinese aren't that narrow-minded mate.
Country-Commodity Wsie Import payments

Heck, we even issue LC's for clients wanting to import stuff from Taiwan. No biggy.

And besides, even if the Indians do try to check out the J-10A by looking and going by joy rides, there's very little that they can gain. There's really nothing too special about it either. Capability-wise, quite similar to the JF-17 and F-16 block 40/42.

One genius here stated that they can use satellites to "spy" on J-10's flight characteristics (LOL).

As far as J-20 and J-31 go, yes those are sensitive.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Currently Awami League govt. is in power for another few weeks, their rule ends in Oct. 24 or 25, then we have an election in Jan. 2014. 90% Muslim Bangladeshi's are pro-China, even most Awami League supporters are, only some brain dead morons are pro-India and their days are numbered. They will have to escape with their lives one day, it is a matter of when, not if.

I am not sure if you are Pakistani or Saudi national, what I noticed is that a lot of Pakistani's are feeling kind of childish jealousy if Bangladesh is seeking closer relations with China or even Saudi Arabia. My advice to people like that would be that this should work to Pakistan's advantage in the bigger picture. It will enhance Pakistan's security not diminish it. China or Saudi Arabia having close relations with other Muslim countries is better for all Muslim countries. Let all Muslim nations work for Sino Muslim alliance so we can extend this influence in the rest of the countries in South East Asia, Central Asia and Africa. We can do it together and by avoiding petty infighting among ourselves.

I am 100% Pakistani. But living in Saudi Arabia.
There is no part of jealousy amongst Pakistanis as you quoted.
Jealousy is a childish sentiment at best.
What we may have ... is some grievances on the issue of BD's submission to INDIA.
no matter what played out in history, but we and BD were together against India.
All the BD people I meet are on the same page as I am, as far as Indians are concerned.
But when we look at what the BD gov is doing, we are perplexed and thus the grievance.

The Chinese aren't that narrow-minded mate.
Country-Commodity Wsie Import payments

Heck, we even issue LC's for clients wanting to import stuff from Taiwan. No biggy.

And besides, even if the Indians do try to check out the J-10A by looking and going by joy rides, there's very little that they can gain. There's really nothing too special about it either. Capability-wise, quite similar to the JF-17 and F-16 block 40/42.

One genius here stated that they can use satellites to "spy" on J-10's flight characteristics (LOL).

As far as J-20 and J-31 go, yes those are sensitive.

That is what doesn't settle.
See when any one country changes it's power posturing, it's neighbors and perceived adversaries react to it.
What I wanted to understand is exactly what prompted the BD Air Force to upgrade or enhance it's power projection.
and weather or not it will have a reaction from other countries in that region (India).

 

[kalu_miah]

I am 100% Pakistani. But living in Saudi Arabia.
There is no part of jealousy amongst Pakistanis as you quoted.
Jealousy is a childish sentiment at best.
What we may have ... is some grievances on the issue of BD's submission to INDIA.
no matter what played out in history, but we and BD were together against India.
All the BD people I meet are on the same page as I am, as far as Indians are concerned.
But when we look at what the BD gov is doing, we are perplexed and thus the grievance.

That is what doesn't settle.
See when any one country changes it's power posturing, it's neighbors and perceived adversaries react to it.
What I wanted to understand is exactly what prompted the BD Air Force to upgrade or enhance it's power projection.
and weather or not it will have a reaction from other countries in that region (India).

That's good to know bro. Our Awami League traitors came to power with the help of some traitor officers in our Army, India, RAW and 9% Hindu's of Bangladesh. We are a country full of clueless people, so some idiots voted for them and the rest they rigged ballot boxes with help of the traitor Army officers. They are planning to do the same in next election, lets see if they succeed and our clueless people take it lying down or rise up and throw them out for good. By Jan. 2014 things will become clear.

We did not support formation of Pakistan in 1947 if population of Bangladesh were pro-Hindu and pro-India and we both know what happened in 1947-1971, its a bitter and sad story. But its all in the past now, it is time to move on for the future.

In the future, I see all Muslim nations, specially Sunni Muslim nations forge a stronger alliance with China and work together to extend our influence to other non-Muslim nations. We should identify all Chinese enemies and adversaries as our own adversaries and downgrade our relationship with them in economic, defense and all spheres. In Asia, these nations are Japan, S. Korea and India and perhaps Vietnam and Philippines. The last two we have limited engagement with, so we don't need to bother about them, but where ever Japan, S. Korea and India is involved, we should choose China instead. China soon will have all technology these 3 nations have and more. Pakistan already enjoys great relations with China, which Bangladesh should achieve in the future. In addition, both Pakistan and Bangladesh should put Japan and S. Korea in the same category with India, as these 3 nations are ganging up to become Asian lackeys of Uncle Sam to confront China.

 

[Zabaniyah]

That is what doesn't settle.

Sure it does

See when any one country changes it's power posturing, it's neighbors and perceived adversaries react to it.
What I wanted to understand is exactly what prompted the BD Air Force to upgrade or enhance it's power projection.
and weather or not it will have a reaction from other countries in that region (India).

Since when did I say the Bangladesh wants to be a regional power? It doesn't have any such ambitions. I have been very clear about that. BAF is a very small force with a force of only 8 MiG-29's and a handful of F-7's. It needs to expands its air force to keep its skies secured.

We are not a land-locked state like Nepal or Bhutan.

This part of the world isn't exactly the most stable in the world. It's a volatile region where anything can happen at anytime. Be it coming from India or Myanmar.

Why do countries like Malaysia spend on defense despite being in a much more stable region than ours? Does it mean that they shouldn't even have those Su-30's and F-18's? Why do they even bother considering the Rafale? Is that supposed to make sense?

And please, let's not go into poverty **** now.