Comparing India and Pakistan 2010

[deckingraj]

I really admire the economic growth of India. And solely on humanitarian ground. The country is home to the biggest democracy and the biggest poverty in the world. Hundreds of millions of people can't find enough to eat and cloth...let alone the luxuries of health and education. And unless india develops economically and huge portion of humanity is going to live under poverty. India has shown tremendous economic growth, though not dispersed equally among its people, though not indigenous... but fact of the matter remains that india is now getting its kitty filled. But its irrational to consider india US or UK or china even.... not yet.
I am sorry but this is how economist think:

"Among the massive problems that confront Indians are unemployment, poverty, inequality, environmental pollution, resource management, unplanned education, health hazards, women deprivation, impact of globalisation and liberalisation and so on. Though topics covered range over a wide field of economic and social issues, there is a continuity in their presentation, which gives an individuality of its own. In fact all these issues are discussed in such an elegant style that the readers can have an opportunity to study the subject all by themselves and at their own pace while deriving benefit of a vast range of real situations both at home and abroad. The published book would be a valuable addition to the current stock of knowledge on the subject. The book would be of immense help to the academicians, researchers, students, statesmen, bureaucrats, policy-makers and general public interested on the latest development of the Indian economy." (jacket)

Source: Indian Economy and Socio-Economic Transformation : Emerging Issues and Problems : Essays in Honour of Professor Baidyanath Misra/edited by S.N. Misra

You would have saved yourself lot of time if youj had even an iota of idea of what is being discussed here ....


I am not even refuting any of your claims but tell me do you see in any of my post or any members post that deny these claims???? We are comparing India and pakistan so tell me from that perspective rather than detailed theories which do not even consider what so far has been achieved....Whatever India has achieved in past two decades is quite amazing....As far as Economic Super Power is considerd than you are living in a different world buddy...We are improving but we still are a nation plagued with poverty....Having said it we have done quite a lot and still lot has to be done...



Anyways nice links...Now can you please do the honour of telling us where Pakistan standon all these problems that has been accounted for India????

 

[Hang em High]

Wait a minute buddy...Did you care to read my reply....Let me repeat...

DONT HAVE FLAME BAITS IN YOU MESSAGE AND EXPECT A MEANINGFUL REPLY

Son I cannot shelter anyone from the harsh realities of the world;
If I mind people telling me that there are terrorist camps in Pakistan i am mad because there are!!!
If Americans and Russians mind people telling them that they have brought the world to brink of destruction.... they are mad because they have.
If you mind people telling you that your growth is yet not sustainable ...you are mad because it is not.

Learn to appreciate the reality. You cannot grow untill you learn to accept your weaknesses. And i am sorry if i have hurted your national pride in any way... IT WAS PURELY UNINTENTIONAL.

 

[deckingraj]

By the way read Freakonomics by Steven Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner, they will clear up some of the delusions we normally hold. And secondly compare figures with independent sources such as World Bank, IMF, CIA, ROBO Bank etc. all the data provided by state banks is molded pose a rosy picture. And the doctors and engineers you are talking about sends remittances, which for indian are US $30 billion....a very small share in the whole pie....don't you think.

The doctors and Engineers that i was referring to was against your claims in your preious posts

"or the indian scholars reached the critical level of genius all together"Here you are implying that whatever we have achieved is because western world want us to be used agasint China???


"Or the West looked around to see who can act as a balancing power to China, so they started pumping Indian economy. "

What a naive assertion

Anyways got to go...I will try to reply as soon as i can..

Have a good night...

 

[Hang em High]

Anyways nice links...Now can you please do the honour of telling us where Pakistan standon all these problems that has been accounted for India????

If you want me to write the research paper for you....let me do the HONORS.

 

[Hang em High]

Sleep tight son. And you have left me with a week of figure crunching here lolzzzzz

 

[deckingraj]

Learn to appreciate the reality. You cannot grow untill you learn to accept your weaknesses. And i am sorry if i have hurted your national pride in any way... IT WAS PURELY UNINTENTIONAL.

No you have not because not even for a second i refuted any of those things...How can i ignore that 200 million people in my country sleep without food every day...but again you have joined this thread a little late...This d!ck comparison is not my cup of tea but thread starter was simply attacking my country by sharing distorted and doctored facts showing India as the worst place to live....

Anyways enough of explanation you are more than welcome to think what you want to think....

 

[toxic_pus]

Learn to appreciate the reality. You cannot grow untill you learn to accept your weaknesses.

And yet most of the links you have posted lead to INDIAN authors.

You are saying, what exactly?

 

[jbond197]

This is for your infrastructure problems:
Roads are the lifelines of an economy. The Rakesh Mohan Committee on Infrastructure highlighted several facts and issues. The public sector outlay for road development in the First Plan was 6.7 percent. It dropped down to a mere 3 percent in the Eighth Plan. Investments in NHs went down from 1.4 percent of the total outlay to 0.6 percent in the same period.

While in India the road development doesn’t have any strong lobby, the automobile industry has gone for an overkill. The present limited road space with an unbalanced growth of vehicles can only be ignored at a great cost to the economy. The backbone of Macro Logistics is the roads. Unless the anticipated growth of vehicles is accompanied by super highways, NHs and SHs, the economy will get a set back as the basic logistics of both Micro and Macro will be at a snail’s pace. The Rakesh Mohan Committee estimated that the economic cost of bad roads ranges from Rs.20,000 crore2 to Rs.30, 000 crore annually.

In India, hardly 30 to 40 percent of the revenue realized from roads are thrown back into road development. In advanced economies like U.S., Switzerland and Japan, the entire amount is thrown back into road development. These countries realized that the expenditure on roads is an investment leading to accelerated growth in every other sector. The roads in India have become cash cows. It is estimated that the transport sector pays Rs.4500 crore every year to various state governments as taxes. The present practice of taxation in the road transport sector was the practice during British India when the government wanted to protect Railways in which the British had financial interests. There is certainly a need to rethink the entire taxation on the road transport sector if the government wants the road and freight transport infrastructure to support Macro Logistics in India.

Source: Impact of transportation infrastructure on logistics in India Business Logistics & SCM

Infrastructure is a bigger problem in Pakistan

Development of our country’s road network remained very slow in the past. According to the economic survey of Pakistan, roads (both high and low types) which were 229,595 km in 1996-97, increased to 264,853 km only by 2007-08 with a continuous decreasing percentage change in length from 5.2 in 1996-97 to 1.2 in 2007-08As a result, the value of road density, which is a common indicator for the development of a country’s road system, is only 0.32 km / km2. This is very low as compared to other South Asian countries like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and India.. Low road density retards the ability to move freely goods and people and acts as a barrier to trade.

Not only is the road network in Pakistan poor, but most of the roads are not even paved. Out of the total road network of the whole country, only 60 per cent is paved. The 10,849 km long national highway and motorway network carries approximately 80 per cent of Pakistan's total traffic. The national highway network basically consists of low capacity roads. About 75 per cent of national highway roads are 2-lane. Due to low lane capacity and poor quality of roads, speed of raw materials’ carriers (truck, containers etc) and passenger buses remain at 40 to 50km per hour only and the entire journey takes 3 to 4 times longer than that in developed countries.

Poor quality of transport is provided at high fares with uncomfortable seating arrangements for the large number of passengers. Violation of safety rules, driving without a license is common that causes road accidents and leads to increase in the fatality rate. During holidays when the burden of passengers increase, transporters raise the fare rates to double digits even, which further puts an additional burden on the already suffering population. This also reduces people’s savings and adversely affects their working abilities.

Business & Finance Review

More over on Global Competitiveness Index, India ranks 49th whereas Pakistan stands at 101 out of 133 countries. One of the main pillar of GCI index is Basic Infrastructure and India ranks 76th and Pakistan ranks 89th out of 133 countries

http://www.weforum.org/pdf/GCR09/GCR20092010fullreport.pdf

Though nobody can deny that India has challenges on Infrastructure development front but Pakistan has much bigger challenge

 

[toxic_pus]

^^ Another important component of infrastructure that our Pak friends deliberately forget is India's massive railway network. It alone handles about 30% of cargo traffic.

Railway in Pakistan is, well.......

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Bhai aur Bhenoo!

Agar bura na manaien to thori dar kay lia is thread ko bhool jian. These kind of thread leads to members getting banned. Moreover, no can prove who is better...

India is good in its own way.
Pakistan is good in its own way.

 

[desiman]

deckinraj,

With due apologies to a few reasonable Indian posters here, let me say to the rest of you that your personal attacks simply show your total desperation. Your behavior and that of some of your fellow Indian posters who engage in personal abuse and insults does not reflect well on your education and upbringing, or your country.

I know it's very hard for you to digest the reality of India's utter backwardness as a nation (with the exception of a few bright individuals), and abject deprivation of the vast majority of its people when you have been taught by a broken system otherwise.

The only thing I can conclude from many of the comments here so far is that you and some of your cohorts are a product of a system of rote learning that does not encourage any reasoning or independent thinking. It's really sad.

I am not impressed at all with you, your fancy English and clever words do not change anything. Do not ever question our upbringing or education system again as I can guarantee you that it is much better than what brainwashing you went through. Your post's are nothing but a mirror to your immaturity and do not command any respect. You post wrong articles and manipulated statistics and then claim that Indian members insult you. You have never answered one question constructively and continue to use very inflammatory language when you post anything. What is really sad is that even after living in a liberal country like the United States, your point of view is so backward and your thinking remains so conservative. Your posts and your blog are nothing but ways for your to somehow gather a few fans who enjoy somehow trying to pick out the negative and multiplying it many times to satisfy their little egos. The utter backwardness of your thinking raises doubts on how you were brought up and your mindset can be compared just another brainwashed terrorist and nothing else. What I can conclude from your post is that you are an extremely insecure person who needs to indulge in petite blog posting to keep his moral high. I could really respected you as a person with the experience your way of talking and rhetorical posting has probably made you the most hated person on this forum. I feel sad for Riaz Haq, very sad indeed.

 

[toxic_pus]

Meanwhile...

With clouds of suspicion already lurking, Pakistan's economic crisis are likely to worsen as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has plans to delay the fifth tranche of $1.2 billion, Business Recorder has reliably learnt.

"This tranche could be further delayed for another two months", says a source privy to the issue. Pakistan's name in the list of probable case discussion in IMF Board was first placed on March 24, which was rescheduled for March 31. But the latest scheme of things does not feature Pakistan on any future IMF Board schedules.

Business Recorder [Pakistan's First Financial Daily]

So if IMF funds don't arrive timely, economy in the candyland takes a tumble.

Ah, things you learn everyday.

 

[karan.1970]

BRICs have always had 50% of humanity...and yet India, China and Brazil have been nobodies for a long long time.

The BRIC hype has been started by none other than Wall Street Bankers in Goldman Sachs out to make a few bucks....remember, these guys almost went out of business and had to be rescued by American taxpayers.

Do remember that many more times than once, Pakistan almost went out of business and had to be rescued by the same American taxpayers (indirectly though). Does that mean that anything Pakistan establishment or intelligentsia says is nonsense?? No...In the same way, not every thing that US's capital system has done in last 50 years is unreliable..

btw the Goldman Sachs you mentioned, despite the Financial crisis, generated revenue which is almost equal to the whole 2009-10 budget of Pakistan and manage assets (despite the downturn and erosion of asset values) worth $ 779 billion.. i.e 50 times the reserves that Pakistan has in its treasury.. So making discrediting statements simply to prove your point is as lame as it gets..

As to your knowledge of Maoists insurgency in India, the less said the better. It seems you know nothing other than what you read in the shallow Indian media reports that are nothing but urban legends.

Are you in touch with these guys and know more??

 

[RiazHaq]

Infrastructure is a bigger problem in Pakistan

Development of our country’s road network remained very slow in the past. According to the economic survey of Pakistan, roads (both high and low types) which were 229,595 km in 1996-97, increased to 264,853 km only by 2007-08 with a continuous decreasing percentage change in length from 5.2 in 1996-97 to 1.2 in 2007-08As a result, the value of road density, which is a common indicator for the development of a country’s road system, is only 0.32 km / km2. This is very low as compared to other South Asian countries like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and India.. Low road density retards the ability to move freely goods and people and acts as a barrier to trade.

Not only is the road network in Pakistan poor, but most of the roads are not even paved. Out of the total road network of the whole country, only 60 per cent is paved. The 10,849 km long national highway and motorway network carries approximately 80 per cent of Pakistan's total traffic. The national highway network basically consists of low capacity roads. About 75 per cent of national highway roads are 2-lane. Due to low lane capacity and poor quality of roads, speed of raw materials’ carriers (truck, containers etc) and passenger buses remain at 40 to 50km per hour only and the entire journey takes 3 to 4 times longer than that in developed countries.

Poor quality of transport is provided at high fares with uncomfortable seating arrangements for the large number of passengers. Violation of safety rules, driving without a license is common that causes road accidents and leads to increase in the fatality rate. During holidays when the burden of passengers increase, transporters raise the fare rates to double digits even, which further puts an additional burden on the already suffering population. This also reduces people’s savings and adversely affects their working abilities.

Business & Finance Review

More over on Global Competitiveness Index, India ranks 49th whereas Pakistan stands at 101 out of 133 countries. One of the main pillar of GCI index is Basic Infrastructure and India ranks 76th and Pakistan ranks 89th out of 133 countries

http://www.weforum.org/pdf/GCR09/GCR20092010fullreport.pdf

Though nobody can deny that India has challenges on Infrastructure development front but Pakistan has much bigger challenge

The International Bank for Reconstruction and Development would lend $9.6 billion and the International Development Association would make available $4.4 billion of funding, according to India's Financial Express.

Only 30 per cent of India's state highways have two lanes or more, and the majority are in poor condition, the bank said. Electricity generation capacity has grown at less than 5 per cent in the past five years, much slower than overall economic growth of about 8 per cent over the same period.

Haq's Musings: Foreign Aid Continues to Pour in Resurgent India

 

[RiazHaq]

A British writer William Dalrymple, a self proclaimed Indophile who has lived in Delhi for years, visited and compared India and Pakistan on their 60th anniversary described Pakistan as follows:

"On the ground, of course, the reality is different and first-time visitors to Pakistan are almost always surprised by the country's visible prosperity. There is far less poverty on show in Pakistan than in India, fewer beggars, and much less desperation. In many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is much more advanced: there are better roads and airports, and more reliable electricity. Middle-class Pakistani houses are often bigger and better appointed than their equivalents in India. Moreover, the Pakistani economy is undergoing a construction and consumer boom similar to India's, with growth rates of 7%, and what is currently the fastest-rising stock market in Asia. You can see the effects everywhere: in new shopping centers and restaurant complexes, in the hoardings for the latest laptops and iPods, in the cranes and building sites, in the endless stores selling mobile phones: in 2003 the country had fewer than three million cellphone users; today there are almost 50 million."

More recently, Alistair Scrutton filed a Reuters report about Pakistan's infrastructure, particularly its 367 Km long M2 motorway that connects Lahore with Islamabad:

"Indeed, for sheer spotlessness, efficiency and emptiness there is nothing like the M2 in the rest of South Asia.

It puts paid to what's on offer in Pakistan's traditional foe and emerging economic giant India, where village culture stubbornly refuses to cede to even the most modern motorways, making them battlegrounds of rickshaws, lorries and cows.

There are many things in Pakistan that don't get into the news. Daily life, for one. Pakistani hospitality to strangers, foreigners like myself included, is another. The M2 is another sign that all is not what it appears in Pakistan, that much lies hidden behind the bad news.

On a recent M2 trip, my driver whizzed along but kept his speedometer firmly placed on the speed limit. Here in this South Asian Alice's Wonderland, the special highway police are considered incorruptible. The motorway is so empty one wonders if it really cuts through one of the region's most populated regions.

"130, OK, but 131 is a fine," said the driver, Noshad Khan. "The police have cameras," he added, almost proudly. His hand waved around in the car, clenched in the form of a gun.

On one of my first trips to Pakistan. I arrived at the border having just negotiated a one-lane country road in India with cows, rickshaws and donkey-driven carts.

I toted my luggage over to the Pakistan side, and within a short time my Pakistani taxi purred along the tarmac. The driver proudly showed off his English and played U.S. rock on FM radio. The announcer even had an American accent. Pakistan, for a moment, receded, and my M2 trip began."

Haq's Musings: Pakistan's Infrastructure and M2 Motorway