Comparing "Democracy" and "Dictatorship" Performance in Pakistan

[Al Bhatti]

dictatorship is slavery !

That slavery is better than a democracy where the nation does not develop.

What is important is how the nation develops and how the standard of living of the common man goes up not democracy or dictatorship, or one party rule or monarchy or waht ever form of government.

One size does not fit all.

If numbers and statistics show dictatorship was having positive results to the development of the nation then i am for dictatorship.

If numbers and statistics show democracy was having positive results to the development of the nation then i am for democracy.

Numbers and statistics are important not blind allegiance to a certain form of government.

 

[RiazHaq]

You are a true example of a traitor, a coward, a slave-minded Pakistani who is loyal to a subservient philosophy of Western supremacy which is so heavily promoted by the buzzdil Pakistani military during it's 3 tyrannical military rules. I am shocked and truly appalled by your munafaqat.

I leave you with a thought, that during the Korean War after World War II, the United States also wanted to nuke North Korea and China into submission but despite millions of deaths they still carried on fighting for with honour and dignity for their lands and their ideologies. This is why China is today the second largest economy on Earth and another Super Power.

Brother Riaz Haq, you make me sick. Enjoy your samosas.

You sound like the militant Jihadis who are the greatest curse for the Muslim world today.

Instead of focusing on peace, security, economy and building up your strength, you want to start a worldwide jihad with little capability other than killing innocent people in your own countries. Your kind has brought nothing but death and destruction to humanity. Shame on you and your fellow Jihadis.

Haq's Musings: Jihadis Growing in Tenth Year of Afghan War

 

[Al Bhatti]

You don't reap from the tree before seeding and nurturing it properly... The child does not take birth before the women is pregnant.

It takes time to grow the tree of democracy, you don't start reaping it on day 1... Democratic system itself eliminates all the errors to make it close to perfect. Dictatorship on the hand is the rule of personal wills and preferences, it can be both good or bad for the country depending upon the dictator. Democracy on other hand is the safest way to ensure stability in the country's policies, economy and long term planning.

Well as per your saying we should stick to democracy and wait for the fruits after maybe 100 years from now. Will Pakistan survive by that time given the good and patriotic track record of all the politicians and their relatives in Pakistan without exceptions

 

[RiazHaq]

This is stupidity of the highest order.

Hundreds of millions of Indians have been lifted from poverty and mass poverty in India will soon be history.

We hope the same for all poor people all over the world. We don't let any pathetic self loathing come between the empathy we feel for fellow human beings anywhere who may be living a life of deprivation because of poverty.

That is the difference between us and that is the reason your country and much of Ummah is in the state it is. More than the self blowing kind, it is these supposedly literate haters who are responsible for this state of affairs in your country.

Indian economy is already the third biggest in the world in terms of PPP from 10th when we started our economic reform. This is a stupendous achievement by any objective measure. We see the same trend by nominal GDP where we will start crossing the large 4 European economies one by one in this decade.

Though obviously people who feel threatened by Indian success are not expected to be objective. They mistakenly link their raison d'etre to hating India and Indian achievements and feel any Indian success invalidates their existence.

Nothing can be further from the truth. We don't have anything to do with you guys at all. We are in a different league, being an economy in a different order of magnitude and having the kind of scientific achievements like the Moon and Mars mission. None of this has anything to do with Pakistan, yet many of you feel it necessary to comment on the issue betraying just pettiness and frankly stupidity.

Some example of this pathetic obsession and denial.

Comparing a 60 KM range missile to MOM!

An obscure irrelevant source but yet another stupidity of an obsessed person scavenging for anything he can find to try to remain in denial.

Though the same person will likely jump for joy if his own nation could accomplish even 5% of this despite all poverty. His own nation even claims to be the fort of Islam! Is that not delusion?

The only response to your open bigotry is to show you reality of "democracy" in India.

Haq's Musings: New Index Finds Indians Poorer Than Africans and Pakistanis

 

[Al Bhatti]

Well when was the democracy ever green a chance? There were some grey patches of Democracy when the public was fed up of dictators. The situation of Pakistan is very similar to India so how far they have gone in democracy.

Most of the democratic nations pro world war II are thriving.. This is now the only way forward unless you can come up with better alternative. The era of dictatorship was over after the countries got freedom, dictatorship is more like placing a king/pawn on your nation and dictate terms wherever you want

That is because the leaders there were patriotic towards their nation which we lack

 

[Hyde]

Well as per your saying we should stick to democracy and wait for the fruits after maybe 100 years from now. Will Pakistan survive by that time given the good and patriotic track record of all the politicians and their relatives in Pakistan without exceptions

If you notice most of the wars which took place pro-World war II were against non-democratic states. At least one of them mostly being non-democratic

 

[chhota bheem]

democracy is like cooking rice in a pot and dictatorship is like cooking rice in pressure cooker.
To get it right in pressure cooker you have to get the amout of rice,water and how long you want to keep it on fire right,other wise it will be mess.
And in a pot you can always have chance to get it right provided you keep a watch.
There must be a reason they dont cook free flowing tasty biriyani in cooker.

 

[RiazHaq]

Here is a part of my post from another thread:
"Last year's Punjab's education budget was 182 billion. Budget 2013-14: Despite higher allocations, education still not a priority – The Express Tribune

This year's allocation for Education is 50% more. This is a very serious increase. Seems as though PML-N is setting its sights on 4% of GDP for education.

I can only be sure of their commitment once I see actual spending. But going merely by figures, this is serious stuff."

Dictator lovers must be a bit upset about increased revenue generation in Punjab. See, the 2014-15 budget is focused on infrastructure development and there is a sharp increase in Education spending.

What are the dictator lovers going to do when the results of this spending makes itself felt?

Dictatorship addicts should try something in the next year, otherwise they will totally loose any relevance which they manage to dig from skewed historical narratives. Once a few mega-projects come to fruition, these people will have nothing to show in comparison.

Results speak louder than your lies in support of PML (N).

And the results come from real significant investment, not paper budgets from Sharif brothers.

To get 6% GDP growth, Pakistan needs to invest 24% of GDP that happened during Musharraf years...neither before nor after him.

Haq's Musings: Declining Investment Hurting Pakistan Economic Growth

Similarly, human development comes from significant real investment, not paper budgets.

Pakistan's HDI grew an average rate of 2.7% per year under President Musharraf from 2000 to 2007, and then its pace slowed to 0.7% per year in 2008 to 2012 under elected politicians, according to the 2013 Human Development Report titled “The Rise of the South: Human Progress in a Diverse World”.


Source: Human Development Report 2013-Pakistan



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3E8bXbEGY.../afg6ptzMyJE/s1600/Pakistan+HDI+2000-2011.jpg
At 0.515, Pakistan's HDI is lower than the average HDI value of 0.558 for South Asia which is the second lowest among the various regions of the world tracked by UNDP. Between 2000 and 2012, the region registered annual growth of 1.43% in HDI value, which is the highest of the regions. Afghanistan achieved the fastest growth (3.9%), followed by Pakistan (1.7%) and India (1.5%), according to the United Nations Development Program.


Overall, Pakistan's human development score rose by 18.9% during Musharraf years and increased just 3.4% under elected leadership since 2008. The news on the human development front got even worse in the last three years, with HDI growth slowing down as low as 0.59% — a paltry average annual increase of under 0.20 per cent.

Who's to blame for this dramatic slowdown in the nation's human development? Who gave it a low priority? Zardari? Peoples' Party? Sharif brothers? PML (N)? PML (Q)? Awami National Party? Muttahida Qaumi Movement? The answer is: All of them. They were all part of the government. In fact, the biggest share of the blame must be assigned to PML (N).

Sharif brothers weren't part of the ruling coalition at the center. So why should the PML (N) share the blame for falling growth in the nation's HDI? They must accept a large part of the blame because education and health, the biggest contributors to human development, are both provincial subjects and PML(N) was responsible for education and health care of more than half of Pakistan's population.

Going further back to the decade of 1990s when the civilian leadership of the country alternated between PML (N) and PPP, the increase in Pakistan's HDI was 9.3% from 1990 to 2000, less than half of the HDI gain of 18.9% on Musharraf's watch from 2000 to 2007.

Haq's Musings: Who's Better For Pak Human Development? Musharraf or Politicians?

 

[Vinod2070]

The only response to your open bigotry is to show you reality of "democracy" in India.

Haq's Musings: New Index Finds Indians Poorer Than Africans and Pakistanis

Such pathetic self loathing and bigotry in this ripe old age does sound strange to me.

Anyway, as I said you and your ilk don't matter to us. We will march on with our hard work and your kind will keep on wallowing in your self loathing.

 

[RiazHaq]

The system takes time to develop if you keep on stopping the development. The bad will never get out as you cut the process of before the bad can be exposed and people realized not to vote for them again. So you fooled your population by putting in military rule and didn't let the bad people proper exposure. So you turned the bad ones victims and they turned like good ones in people's eyes. That means, people would suffer yet one or two more times (5 years each time) before the bad will finally get exposed (this is realizing the next a couple of times, the system won't be cut off like before). So who blindsided the people? didn't let the people who is bad for their vote and who is true to the country......the military!!! Let the chef cook his food and let people determine what tastes better. If the current chef isn't good, people will find out and they'll find another chef. The last thing you can do is to let the chef cook with people's money and right before people can judge if they wasted their money or if it was worth it, you threw the food out by force. Great. You wasted everyone's time, money and the food has to get cooked AGAIN for people to realize if the chef is good of bad.

Results speak louder than all your arguments.

And the results show that no developing country has become developed under democracy since WW II.

Asian Tigers became Asian Tigers under dictators. Democracy came later after they became industrialized with a large educated middle class population.

Haq's Musings: Asian Tiger Dictators Brought Prosperity; Democracy Followed

"Democratic" India remains a mess with the world's largest population of poor hungry and illiterates.

Haq's Musings: 63 Years After Independence, India Remains Home to World's Largest Population of Poor, Hungry and Illiterates

 

[Vinod2070]

Anyway, typical of the shallow quick fix thinking that passes for "analysis" among such people, the basic premise of this thread is as pathetic as most such rants by the OP.

They all claim to be about Pakistan but quickly jump to the tried and tested (and repeated) rants about India and the pet peeve and self loathing obsession typical of these haters.

Let's take some examples and see if dictatorship is indeed better than democracy.

East and West Germany starting off from the same base after WW-2.

North and South Korea.

Even Pakistan which has been under dictatorship for much of it's existence.

Was China under greater dictatorship under Mao or after him? Which period showed greater economic growth.

Much of Africa is under dictatorship, including the likes of Somalia, Sudan, Sierra Leone.

Which of them are shining example of economic growth and prosperity due to dictatorship?

Dictatorship produces horrible results more often than not.

 

[RiazHaq]

Such pathetic self loathing and bigotry in this ripe old age does sound strange to me.

Anyway, as I said you and your ilk don't matter to us. We will march on with our hard work and your kind will keep on wallowing in your self loathing.

While India ranks at 65 among 79 nations ranked by the International Food Policy Research Institute on its hunger index, North Koreans are considerably ahead at 52 and Pakistanis at 57. The World Hunger data shows that India, which gets a free pass from the western media and active support of western and Russian governments to pursue its nuclear and space programs, is doing a poorer job of feeding its people than the North Koreans. Is this not hypocrisy to cite North Korean hunger as a reason to criticize its space program while lavishing praise on India whose citizens fare worse than North Korean citizens?

Haq's Musings: "Starving" North Korea's Space Pursuit Different From Hungry India's?

 

[Vinod2070]

"Democratic" India remains a mess with the world's largest population of poor hungry and illiterates.

So the dictator ruled Pakistan and other Ummah nations like Libya, Syria, Sudan, Syria, Somalia are doing better?

They are not a mess?

The ranking of failed and failing states seems to suggest otherwise!

While India ranks at 65 among 79 nations ranked by the International Food Policy Research Institute on its hunger index, North Koreans are considerably ahead at 52 and Pakistanis at 57. The World Hunger data shows that India, which gets a free pass from the western media and active support of western and Russian governments to pursue its nuclear and space programs, is doing a poorer job of feeding its people than the North Koreans. Is this not hypocrisy to cite North Korean hunger as a reason to criticize its space program while lavishing praise on India whose citizens fare worse than North Korean citizens?

Haq's Musings: "Starving" North Korea's Space Pursuit Different From Hungry India's?

Again, your pathetic obsession with non Muslim India while not doing anything for your own Ummah doesn't matter to us. Your country is lower in HDI and that should tell you where to focus on.

We will focus on making ourselves better. Haters can wallow in hate in their life and death. We couldn't care less for people who don't matter to us.

 

[RiazHaq]

Let's take some examples and see if dictatorship is indeed better than democracy.

East and West Germany starting off from the same base after WW-2.

North and South Korea.

Even Pakistan which has been under dictatorship for much of it's existence.

Was China under greater dictatorship under Mao or after him? Which period showed greater economic growth.

Much of Africa is under dictatorship, including the likes of Somalia, Sudan, Sierra Leone.

Which of them are shining example of economic growth and prosperity due to dictatorship?

Dictatorship produces horrible results more often than not.

East and West Germany were both industrialized well before WW II.

South Korea became an Asian Tiger under Gen Park Chung He, a military dictator.

China is still a dictatorship of the Communist Party of China.

Comparing Asia and Africa has no relevance here.

There is not a single example of a developing country that has become a prosperous, industrialized nation under democracy since WW II.

South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, all became industrialized and prosperous under dictators before embracing democracy.

Haq's Musings: Asian Tiger Dictators Brought Prosperity; Democracy Followed

 

[Vinod2070]

East and West Germany were both industrialized well before WW II.

South Korea became an Asian Tiger under Gen Park Chung He, a military dictator.

China is still a dictatorship of the Communist Party of China.

The difference between the examples I gave make the story clear. There are no two ways about it.

Comparing Asia and Africa has no relevance here.

Why not?

There is not a single example of a developing country that has become a prosperous, industrialized nation under democracy since WW II.

Dictatorship has fared worse. There are far too many examples of failed states under dictatorship.

South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, all became industrialized and prosperous under dictators before embracing democracy.

North Korea, China under Mao are counter examples. Democracies as a whole have far outperformed dictatorships as a whole.

Selective cherry picking to "prove" a false, shallow premise doesn't work.

Anyway, if you want dictatorship for Pakistan, it is Pakistanis' choice (especially those that did not run away from the country for greener pastures. I would also assume that native Pakistanis should have far more say than any Arains who are supposedly Arabs).

I have nothing to say on this matter as long as it doesn't lead to terror in my country and the region.