COMAC ARJ21 Regional Jet

[The SC]

The leasing companies wouldn't have ordered the airplanes if they had no demand from Indonisia in the first place..

 

[TaiShang]

The leasing companies wouldn't have ordered the airplanes if they had no demand from Indonisia in the first place..

In my opinion, placed orders means more than some internet perception. Virtual reality does not correspond with world reality, obviously.

 

[Indos]

Low cost carrier seems to look on this plane. Indonesia Air Asia or Lion Air might have interest on the plane.

If there was no 1997-8 Asian financial crisis, Indonesia would be the first in Asia to make and market this type of plane. Search N 2130 aircraft (should have had its maiden flight in 2004)

 

[AMCA]

Definitely. That's quite a difference from Indian quality.

***

Edit: Looks like more orders are coming to the way of India.

Quite a difference indeed!! We have this trend of Low cost airlines picking up and why not, if China can offer Aircrafts that are cheap, Private airlines are open for quality compromises.

 

[TaiShang]

Quite a difference indeed!! We have this trend of Low cost airlines picking up and why not, if China can offer Aircrafts that are cheap, Private airlines are open for quality compromises.

As long as ARJ21 makes money, the way customers rationalize their purchase will not be a concern, I believe. Everybody will have their own particular way of seeing things.

ARJ21 is still a very modest initiative. C919 will have a greater ambition.

***

ARJ21, short for Advanced Regional Jet for the 21st Century, is a new type of turbofan short/medium range regional jet that is designed and manufactured in China with our own independent intellectual property rights. The range of the standard ARJ21 is 2,225 km, which is mainly for meeting the operation requirements of hub-spoke routes, ie from central cities to neighboring medium and small cities. The maximum takeoff weight of the aircraft is 40,500 kg, the maximum operating altitude 11,900 m, and the maximum range 3,700 km. Two CF34-10A engines are mounted on the rear of the aircraft. There are 78 seats in a dual-class configuration and 90 seats in a full economy class configuration. Its economic life is designed to be 60000 flying hours/20 calendar years.

 

[AMCA]

As long as ARJ21 makes money, the way customers rationalize their purchase will not be a concern, I believe. Everybody will have their own particular way of seeing things.

ARJ21 is still a very modest initiative. C919 will have a greater ambition.

***

ARJ21, short for Advanced Regional Jet for the 21st Century, is a new type of turbofan short/medium range regional jet that is designed and manufactured in China with our own independent intellectual property rights. The range of the standard ARJ21 is 2,225 km, which is mainly for meeting the operation requirements of hub-spoke routes, ie from central cities to neighboring medium and small cities. The maximum takeoff weight of the aircraft is 40,500 kg, the maximum operating altitude 11,900 m, and the maximum range 3,700 km. Two CF34-10A engines are mounted on the rear of the aircraft. There are 78 seats in a dual-class configuration and 90 seats in a full economy class configuration. Its economic life is designed to be 60000 flying hours/20 calendar years.

Like I said, I am happy for the fact that the western Monopoly in high tech engineering is fading away and China has had a big role to play in it. I personally may or may not like China for what it has done to us but China has knowingly or unknowingly helped developing nations with low cost high tech solutions.

Sometimes quality does not matter, purpose does.

 

[TaiShang]

Like I said, I am happy for the fact that the western Monopoly in high tech engineering is fading away and China has had a big role to play in it. I personally may or may not like China for what it has done to us but China has knowingly or unknowingly helped developing nations with low cost high tech solutions.

Sometimes quality does not matter, purpose does.

Quality matters because in most cases you cannot repeat a mistake. If the ARJ21 is enjoying, albeit quite humbly, yet, it is because the standards reached so far has at least been met. This is not like a mobile phone made in India that, if something goes wrong, the consequences would be only minor.

 

[kaka404]

The leasing companies wouldn't have ordered the airplanes if they had no demand from Indonisia in the first place..

I think you misunderstand a little. The demand for commercial jet plane of this class is high in this country. The market is there. But it doesn't mean that this specific one is the only one that gonna enter the market. It also have to compete with others.
And when talking about quality, keep in mind for airliners it's not just about quailty of the product. If the product already enter market it means that the quality is already good. What matters are quality and accessibility of the service. Just Imagine if one owns an airline for indonesia domestic flight but to get the fleet service they have to go to a far away country....
Hence again i would say good luck

 

[Beast]

Do these plane already certified in indonesia!!??
If not, good luck trying to leased it here, btw indonesian passenger still had bad image abaut chinese made aircraft, i wonder which airline will operate chinese made airplane, a suicidal decision for the airline!!

Good luck to Indonesia. Notorious air traffic control and poor pilots. Plunging a Chinese made MA-60 due to pilot error and then blame the Chinese plane?

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/crew-inexperience-led-to-merpati-ma60-crash-ntsc-371525/

ARJ-21 is plane made according to all FAA requirement. Something Indonesian made plane has no way to match that standard in another 10years time.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Do these plane already certified in indonesia!!??
If not, good luck trying to leased it here, btw indonesian passenger still had bad image abaut chinese made aircraft, i wonder which airline will operate chinese made airplane, a suicidal decision for the airline!!

It may not have anything to do with the airliners itself. The problems may have something to do with the Indonesian volcano (volcanic ashes) or its pilots. Whether it is the Boeing, Airbus, etc they all experience the same problems while flying over Indonesia.

The world's least safe airlines for 2016 revealed

A total of 10 airlines, all from Nepal, Indonesia or Surinam, qualified for just one or zero stars for 2016:

1) Batik Air

2) Bluewing Airlines

3) Citilink

4) Kal-Star Aviation

5) Lion Air

6) Sriwijaya Air

7) TransNusa

8) Trigana Air Service

9) Wings Air

10) Xpress Air

 

[Beast]

It may not have anything to do with the airliners itself. The problems may have something to do with the Indonesian volcano (volcanic ashes) or its pilots. Whether it is the Boeing, Airbus, etc they all experience the same problems while flying over Indonesia.

The world's least safe airlines for 2016 revealed

A total of 10 airlines, all from Nepal, Indonesia or Surinam, qualified for just one or zero stars for 2016:

1) Batik Air

2) Bluewing Airlines

3) Citilink

4) Kal-Star Aviation

5) Lion Air

6) Sriwijaya Air

7) TransNusa

8) Trigana Air Service

9) Wings Air

10) Xpress Air

Precisely, why Indonesia will continue buy Chinese made plane. Quality and standard far superior than Indonesia themselves.

Given the track record of their airline and pilots plus the maintenance crew. I can bet most of Chinese plane defect is due to Indonesian themselves trying to cut corner and save a few bucks by not applying the standard procedure. Or save a few session of pilot training to maximize profit.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

 

[jhungary]

The leasing companies wouldn't have ordered the airplanes if they had no demand from Indonisia in the first place..

Actually, may be not

Depends on the least term of the leasing company, they buy aircraft so that they can dry lease or wet lease them to a local service provider. Dry list usually involve airline where they have their own maintenance and crew ready, wet lease are usually more into a charter company where they have to lease the entire crew with the aircraft.

Both Dry and Wet Lease would mean they are decided by the company, and usually Leaser like GE Aviation Service will bulk buy most of the aircraft type from factory and to suit the demand, they may or may not have any demand from Indonesia, this is simply what they do.

If ARJ21 does not have the proper certificate for Indonesia, they cannot lease them dry to Indonesia, which mean the only market they have is for charter. And I don't really think there are trained technician that can service ARJ21 outside China now. So, I am going to venture and guess all these 90 aircraft is for Wet Lease.

China's ARJ21 gets largest single commercial order, leases to Indonesia
(CRI Online) 07:39, July 13, 2016

　　Undated photo shows an ARJ21 aircraft taking off.

A domestic regional aircraft ARJ21 has received its largest single commercial order at the 50th Farnborough International Air Show in the UK.

The Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China, Ltd. (COMAC) got the order of 90 ARJ21 aircrafts on Monday.

A tripartite cooperative agreement was signed by COMAC, China Aircraft Leasing Group (CALC) and Friedmann Pacific Asset Management Limited (FPAM).

CALC will purchase 60 ARJ21-700 series aircrafts from COMAC, and will act as an aircraft lessor to provide leasing solutions to an Indonesian-based airline company, which is subordinate to FPAM, in building its ARJ-21 fleet, according to the agreement.

At the same time, Avic Leasing Company will also purchase 30 ARJ21 aircrafts from COMAC.

This is the largest order of ARJ21 aircrafts for COMAC since its commercial operations on June 28 this year.

COMAC General Manager He Dongfeng said the company is now actively exploring the market both at home and abroad.

While Executive Vice President of CALC Liu Wanting also said they will work together with FPAM for ARJ21's entering into international market.

Till now, the number of ARJ21's client companies has been up to 18 and the total orders of ARJ21 have reached 308.


***

@Daniel808 , @CAPRICORN-88 , @cirr , @ahojunk , @AndrewJin

90 order is not really big, this news come out today

Airbus tops Boeing as F-35 roars across Farnborough

European planemaker Airbus took top honours at the Farnborough Airshow on Tuesday, winning a vast $12.5-billion jets deal from AirAsia, as the F-35 stealth fighter screamed across the skies in a stunning display.

Malaysia's low-cost airline AirAsia placed the blockbuster order for 100 single-aisle fuel-efficient A321neo jets, worth the equivalent of 11.3 billion euros at list prices, delivering the airshow's biggest deal so far in a major blow to Airbus' fierce US rival Boeing.

In a centrepiece to this year's airshow, the US military's supersonic F-35 warplane -- the most expensive in history -- made its Farnborough debut in a deafening roar, having already delighted the crowds at the Royal International Air Tattoo last weekend.

The F-35 -- whose programme has a ballooning price tag of almost $400 billion -- was supposed to fly here in 2014 but was grounded due to an engine fire.

The AirAsia deal was meanwhile unveiled on the second day of the airshow by its boss and founder Tony Fernandes and Airbus president and CEO Fabrice Bregier.

AirAsia, the region's biggest budget carrier by fleet size, added the fuel-efficient A321neo would seat up to 240 passengers, while enjoying greater capacity and the lowest operating costs in the single aisle category.

"The A321neo will help us to meet ongoing strong demand as well as further reduce our cost per available seat kilometre across the group, which will translate to lower air fares for our guests," Fernandes said.

"We would like to congratulate Airbus for producing the state-of-the-art A321neo aircraft that meets our requirements for efficient operations."

On Tuesday alone, Airbus won a firm orders for a total of 129 aircraft worth $15.6 billion at catalogue prices.

Airlines typically negotiate sizeable discounts to catalogue prices so the actual cost of aircraft is likely to be lower.

Airbus had already scored big on Monday, when it clinched a Virgin Atlantic order for 12 wide-bodied A350-100s worth $4.4 billion.

On Tuesday, Germany's Germania also ordered 25 single-aisle fuel-efficient Airbus A320neos worth $2.6 billion.

Berlin-based Germania Group flies to destinations in Europe, North Africa and the Middle East from mainly German, Swiss and British bases.

Iceland's low-cost carrier WOW then agreed to buy four A321s worth $460 million.

Indian budget carrier Go Air signalled its intention to buy another 72 Airbus A320neos worth $7.7 billion.

Boeing fought back Tuesday with a volley of deals for the sale of its commercial aircraft -- with particularly keen demand from China.

Chicago-based Boeing -- which celebrates its centenary this year -- finalised an order with German travel giant TUI Group for ten single-aisle 737 Max 8 jets plus the option for a long-haul 787-9 Dreamliner, worth a total of $1.4 billion.

TUI, the world's largest tourism group, said it was seeking to expand its long-haul holiday programme to offer more choice of flights and destinations.

Air Lease Corporation meanwhile doubled an order to six 737 MAX 8s worth a total of $660 million.

Turning to emerging markets, the US planemaker added upbeat news from Asian powerhouse China.

China's Kunming Airlines has indicated an interest in purchasing ten 737 MAX 7 airplanes with a value of $902 million.

Boeing added that another unnamed Chinese carrier has signed a commitment for 30 737 jets worth in excess of $3.0 billion. The planes are a mixture of 737 MAX and Next-Generation 737s.

This year's Farnborough airshow has been partly overshadowed by Britain's shock referendum decision last month to leave the European Union.

Some analysts claim that Brexit will damage medium-term demand for aircraft, but others argue the broader sector enjoys solid growth in passenger traffic -- particularly from emerging markets like China.

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In 1 day.

Airbus sold 250 order while Boeing sold more than 70 new order.......

 

[Tshering22]

Do these plane already certified in indonesia!!??
If not, good luck trying to leased it here, btw indonesian passenger still had bad image abaut chinese made aircraft, i wonder which airline will operate chinese made airplane, a suicidal decision for the airline!!

ARJ-21 is already certified by FAA and EASA, which means that it has equivalent safety standards to that of its competing aircraft namely the A319 from Airbus and Boeing B737.

While it may not be neck to neck in terms of technology, it is certainly meeting the international standards.

There won't be any orders if they weren't certified.

 

[jhungary]

Low cost carrier seems to look on this plane. Indonesia Air Asia or Lion Air might have interest on the plane.

If there was no 1997-8 Asian financial crisis, Indonesia would be the first in Asia to make and market this type of plane. Search N 2130 aircraft (should have had its maiden flight in 2004)

I think it is on the contrary, LCC does not usually operate Regional Jet for 2 reasons

1.) It have less pax/flight ratio, more pax more money, Regional Jet is 1/3 the size of a Commuter Jet (Such as A321 or Boeing 737 Max) You want more passenger per plane to put cost down, not less passenger per plane, hence, they don't usually use regional airliner.

2.) Regional Airliner have less cycle. Meaning you will have to put more service time in between flight. Each cycle was timed by each take off and landing, LCC usually use their aircraft like a bus, so they will do multiple Take Off and Land in a single day, which put the mileage on the cycle. Which mean it reaches C/D Check sooner, which mean you have to pull the aircraft out of service to perform those check.

LCC like A321neo or 737MAX, it gave them more pax config and more cycle between check. Regional Jet usually used to connect between two flight or use it in remote location.