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Collapse of Turkey’s Middle East policy

So no, Iran is for Turkey far more important than all the Arab countries. As it is the other way around.

Not true. In terms of sharing things in common, Iran has a lot more in common with our immediate Arab neighbour (Iraq) then we do with Turks. Turkey also has much more in common with former Ottoman Arab countries, then they do with Iran.

Best thing for future of Middle East is to just stay out of each others way.
 
Not true. In terms of sharing things in common, Iran has a lot more in common with our immediate Arab neighbour (Iraq) then we do with Turks. Turkey also has much more in common with former Ottoman Arab countries, then they do with Iran.

Best thing for future of Middle East is to just stay out of each others way.

what do we share with Iraqis? Just shia Islam.

I've hung around Iraqis and Turks. With the Turkish girl that I know from college, I've noticed that we share a looooot of things from food to customs and even words in our languages. I felt like I was around an Iranian that grew up outside Iran and didn't know Persian. On the other hand I shared NOTHING with the Iraqi guy. He might as well been a wahabi saudi.

But yeah, we should stay out of each other's affairs. Totally agree with that one.
 
what do we share with Iraqis? Just shia Islam.

I've hung around Iraqis and Turks. With the Turkish girl that I know from college, I've noticed that we share a looooot of things from food to customs and even words in our languages. I felt like I was around an Iranian that grew up outside Iran and didn't know Persian. On the other hand I shared NOTHING with the Iraqi guy. He might as well been a wahabi saudi.

But yeah, we should stay out of each other's affairs. Totally agree with that one.

Shia Islam, subjectively speaking we look similar. Our food is very similar (rice with yoghurt and meat). Also people exchange. There are many Iranians living in Iraq and vice versa. Language wise, Mesopotamian dialect of Arabic (spoken in Iraq) has a lot in common with Persian.

Turks share a lot with Fertile crescent Arabs. Halloumi cheese, bellydancing etc...
 
Shia Islam, subjectively speaking we look similar. Our food is very similar (rice with yoghurt and meat). Also people exchange. There are many Iranians living in Iraq and vice versa. Language wise, Mesopotamian dialect of Arabic (spoken in Iraq) has a lot in common with Persian.

Turks share a lot with Fertile crescent Arabs. Halloumi cheese, bellydancing etc...

We look similar with Turks, Indians, Arabs and some even with Europeans. That's not a good reason. Every Iranian can be mistaken for a person from one surrounding country.

I don't know, I've felt very close to the only Turk I've known and felt like I was talking with an Iranian.
 
Shia Islam, subjectively speaking we look similar. Our food is very similar (rice with yoghurt and meat). Also people exchange. There are many Iranians living in Iraq and vice versa. Language wise, Mesopotamian dialect of Arabic (spoken in Iraq) has a lot in common with Persian.

Turks share a lot with Fertile crescent Arabs. Halloumi cheese, bellydancing etc...


Turkish people like that delicious combo too. And yoghurt is playing an important role in Turkish cuisine. Actually as far as i know, yoghurt is a Turkish word.

It is good to see you thinking you have a lot more common with Arabs though...
 
We look similar with Turks, Indians, Arabs and some even with Europeans. That's not a good reason. Every Iranian can be mistaken for a person from one surrounding country.

I don't know, I've felt very close to the only Turk I've known and felt like I was talking with an Iranian.

Look at history... Mesopotamia and Persia have had a very, very long and shared history. Look at all the Iranians in government today, like 50% of them where born in Iraq.

Turkish people like that delicious combo too. And yoghurt is playing an important role in Turkish cuisine. Actually as far as i know, yoghurt is a Turkish word.

It is good to see you thinking you have a lot more common with Arabs though...

Turks don't seem to eat rice as much as Iranians/Iraqis. Also your rice is different, it is short grained if I remember correctly. It is quite similar to the italian risotto rice. Yeah yoghurt originated in central Asia, wether it was Tajiks or Turkics who invented it nobody knows.
 
Ankara needs to rethink its relations with all its neighbours — Syria first among them
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The Arab Spring will undoubtedly go down in history as an important moment in the liberation of the Arab people from tyranny. But, like most major political upheavals, it has had a number of unfortunate and largely unforeseen consequences.
The economies of Egypt, Tunisia and Yemen have suffered serious damage; Syria’s ongoing civil war has resulted in heavy — and mounting — civilian casualties and material destruction; in the Sahel, violence and chaos have followed the overthrow of Libya’s Muammar Al Gaddafi, especially in Mali where Tawareq rebels backed by Islamist groups have seized a great chunk of the country; sectarian tensions have sharpened across the region causing all minorities to feel less secure; the Palestine cause has been consigned to the margins of international attention, while Israel, fully backed by the US, proceeds undisturbed with its land grab.
Turkey is yet another victim of the unforeseen consequence of the Arab Spring: its ambitious Middle East policy has collapsed. Two years ago, Turkey could claim to be the most successful country in the region. Its economy was booming. Its charismatic Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in power since 2002, enjoyed popularity at home and respect abroad.
The Turkish combination of democracy and Islam was hailed as a model for the region. Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, an academic turned statesman, was credited with devising a peaceful regional order, based on the principle of ‘zero problems with neighbours’.
A key pivot of Davutoglu’s new regional order was a Turkish-Syrian partnership, both commercial and political, which soon expanded into a free-trade zone embracing Turkey, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. Visas with these countries were abolished. Meanwhile, Turkish construction companies were active in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, as well as in Gaddafi’s Libya (where contracts were estimated at some $18 billion for roads, bridges, pipelines, ports, airports and much else besides.)
Buoyed by these successes, Turkey set about seeking to solve some of the region’s most obdurate conflicts. It tried hard to bring Syria and Israel to the negotiating table. Together with Brazil, it made what seemed a promising advance towards solving the problem of Iran’s nuclear programme. In Afghanistan, Turkish troops were the only foreign forces welcome, which seemed to presage a role for Ankara in negotiating a settlement with the Taliban.
In addition, Erdogan had hopes of reaching an entente with Turkey’s old rival, Greece, and of making peace at last with Armenia (a country still smarting from the harsh treatment of Armenians by the Ottoman Turks.) Above all, Erdogan seemed ready to make major political concessions to the Kurds of eastern Anatolia in a bid to end, once and for all, the long and violent struggle with the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), which has claimed tens of thousands of lives.
Then the whole thing fell apart.
The deal which Turkey and Brazil negotiated with Iran over its nuclear facilities was rejected by Washington. Turkey’s overtures to Armenia got nowhere: the border remains closed. Turkey quarrelled violently with Israel when Israeli commandos boarded a Turkish ship, the Mavi Marmara, in international waters, and killed nine activists, most of them Turks, who were trying to break Israel’s cruel siege of Gaza. Israel has refused to apologise for its brutal behaviour.
Turkey’s hopes of better relations with Greece were dashed by Greece’s economic collapse. Moreover, having quarrelled with Turkey, Israel hurried to embrace Greece, as well as the Greek-speaking Republic of Cyprus, joining with it in the exploitation of gas finds in the eastern Mediterranean, to the anger of Turkish-speaking northern Cyprus and of Turkey itself.
On the commercial front, Gaddafi’s overthrow put an end to several big Turkish contracts in Libya, while Turkey’s expanding business with Saudi Arabia and the Arab Gulf states was dealt a harsh blow by the disruption of road traffic across Syria due to the uprising there.
Turkey’s once friendly relations with Iran suffered because they now found themselves on opposite sides of the Syrian conflict, while Turkish relations with Iraq suffered because of Turkey’s close ties with the autonomous Kurdish Regional Government in northern Iraq (including providing the KRG with facilities to export oil direct to Turkey, to the fury of Baghdad.)
Instead of ‘no problems with neighbours’, Turkey is now beset with grave problems on almost every front. Inevitably, Davutoglu’s star has waned. No longer the master strategist, he is seen as an amateur politician struggling to survive.
The real turning point was Turkey’s impetuous decision to back the Syrian rebels against President Bashar Al Assad’s regime. At a stroke, Turkey’s partnership with Syria collapsed, bringing down the whole of Turkey’s Arab policy. Instead of attempting to resolve the Syrian conflict by mediation — which it was well placed to do — Turkey took sides.
It provided house room in Istanbul for the civilian Syrian opposition and camps for the Free Syrian Army and other fighting groups. Under Turkish protection, the Syrian rebels now control a narrow strip of territory of some 70km along the Syrian-Turkish border.
Turkey and Syria are virtually at war. In retaliation to Turkey’s role in channelling funds, weapons and intelligence to the rebels, Syria seems to be encouraging the PKK — and its Syrian affiliate, the PYD — to turn up the heat on Turkey. The PYD has occupied five largely Kurdish towns in northern Syria, from which Syrian government forces were deliberately withdrawn. If Syria’s Kurds gain anything like the autonomy already enjoyed by Iraq’s Kurds, then Turkey’s own Kurds are bound to press their claims for political rights and freedoms.
In eastern Turkey, the PKK’s 28-year insurgency seems to be springing back to life with deadly ambushes against military targets, such as last Sunday’s attack which killed a dozen Turkish soldiers. The struggle to put a lid on Kurdish militancy could once again become Turkey’s most painful and disruptive domestic problem.
A real headache for Turkey is the massive influx of Syrian refugees. To stem the flood, Turkey has closed its frontier with Syria for the time being. Syrian refugees in Turkey are said to number over 80,000, lodged in nine tented camps. Five more camps are under construction, which could house another 30,000 refugees. Turkey says it cannot realistically take in more than about 100,000, without help from other countries and international organisations. Hosting the refugees has already cost Turkey an estimated 135 million euros (Dh624.1 million) — and no doubt will cost a great deal more.
Should Turkey revise its Syria policy? Instead of joining in Washington’s (and Israel’s) war against Tehran and Damascus, Ankara might be well advised to revert back, step by step, to a more neutral stance. Lakhdar Brahimi, the new UN peace envoy, needs Turkey’s help in his difficult task of mediating a peaceful resolution of the Syrian conflict. That would be the way to restore Turkey’s Middle East policy to its former glory. Turkey needs urgently to rethink its relations with all its neighbours — Syria first among them.

Patrick Seale is a commentator and author of several books on Middle East affairs.

Collapse of Turkey
Patrick seale is an agent of syrian regime, he used to wrote pro assad dirt and has written a bio of the dead father.
Turkey would be remembered as a country who stood by syrian people and will be rewarded when the shia minority extremist regime will fall.
 
They must rethink the whole situation. The problem in the foreign policy is coming from the roots of the Republic, tradition of diplomacy is something new for Turks. (I mean, we really don't understand a damn about diplomacy. Search Suleiman's letters to Habsburgs)

For a healthy foreign policy, you need to learn target countries' traditions, language etc. Many of Turkish diplomats only learn French and English.
Another problem is intel. MİT doesn't have the ability to go operations etc. All they can do is gathering intelligence. Other kind of operations are conducting by ÖKK personnels. MİT needs structural reform.
Turkish policymakers are one of the best in the world, especially in foreign policy and in economics. The problem is in inner bureucracy. We need a change. A big change.

This has nothing to do with diplomacy because the fact that Anatolia always on target and the plans are based on this. What happening now is already planned 100 years ago. The point is that we dont have a independed willpower that holds our own national benefits on first place. Turks have already prooven to be a nation that has one of the best organize possibilities. And about intellegence, we are the one that learned jews intellegence but as i said earlier our organisations are not independent. Although MIT showed some action in Syria some 15 years ago with a carbomb and another operation in Italy to capture Ocalan.

Before I join this forum I had great respect and love for Turkey and it's people, but after dealing with many Turks here, I realized that the respect was not mutual, and I even got skeptical about Turkish real intentions behind it's current policy, as I believe Turkish members thoughts here reflect, albeit proportionally, of what Turkish people, in general, think of us. Nevertheless, if I drop the emotional side of me I would say:

I believe there was nothing wrong with Turkish foreign policy which was welcomed with pleasure by both people of the region and regimes, however, Turkish new foreign policy emerged in the worst times in the region dealing with the most sadistic and evil regimes and terrorists who belong to the same block. So, the problem wasn't in Turkish policy at all but unfortunately, all the odds turned against it at once. The writer should have differentiated between the regimes of Syria and Iraq and the people of the whole region as well as the Arab regimes, except for those two, who have great appreciation for it's heroic stances. As you know, the future is with the people not regimes, and people will always remember Turkey as the country that embraced their dreams of freedom and dignity. Thank you Turkey, thank you Ardogan...

Sorry to say this brother but you are non trustable. Before Syria you gave me many points and good comments but after my opinions about Syria you changed your acts towards me. This because i have different opinions about the situations? First you supported Erdogans policy about Syria but now suddenly you have no respect to Turks anymore? Weird.
 
bravo

If we didn't have oil, Iran would be like Turkey now. Because of oil every foreign power has tried to control Iran and everything that happened in the last century is purely because of that. Anyway, these mullahs will go, Iranians will remain. As you said, we have nothing to do with arabs. Billions of dollars of Iranian oil money has gone to arabs when it should have gone to our Persian brothers in Tajikestan, Afghanistan and Uzbekistan (there are a lot of Tajik Persians in Uzbekistan). Turkey should also focus on Central Asia. The future of the region is in Central Asia. Arabs can continue with their tribal and secterian in fighting till judgment day. Our mullahs and Erdogan can get a one way ticket to arabia and join them.

During the Sassanid Byzantium wars, Turkic tribes help the Persians lay seige to the walls of constantinople (626)..
 
626? I thought the Turks where still in Central Asia back then...
Turks spreaded over rhe caspian into Avar lands. Avar Turks Slavs and Persian led the invasion of Anatolia. It failed because the Avars never got the Naval supply promised by the Sassanids. But turks attacked The walls of constantinople by cavalry charge but got burned by greek fire.
 
Look at history... Mesopotamia and Persia have had a very, very long and shared history. Look at all the Iranians in government today, like 50% of them where born in Iraq.



Turks don't seem to eat rice as much as Iranians/Iraqis. Also your rice is different, it is short grained if I remember correctly. It is quite similar to the italian risotto rice. Yeah yoghurt originated in central Asia, wether it was Tajiks or Turkics who invented it nobody knows.

Early Persians did "steal" quite a lot from the Mesopotamians. The Achemenids were borrowers like Romans. They took things from the lands they conquered and made it better, from culture to architecture to... But that was Mesopotamia. They're long gone. Iraq today is an arab country. They speak arabic, their culture is arabic and nothing from the Sumerians and Mesopotamians exists (in flesh, blood and soul). The only things that remain are ruins.

And yeah, a lot of the ppl in the govt were born in Iraq (not 50 percent though), but that's because Iraq is the center of shia Islam. During the times of the Pahlavis they spent their times across the border for obvious reasons. That doesn't mean much though. Hassan Nasrollah has spent many years in Iran. Maliki lived in Iran close to a decade. Others in the Iraqi regime also live in Iran for many years. That doesn't mean anything either.

I always feel very uncomfortable around arabs b/c I don't even share Islam with them. Turks though are all secular, they're not tribal (like us), they're not secterian, there is none of this animosity that there is b/in Iranians and arabs ("ajam/fireworshipper"-"soosmar khor-arab boogando" etc...). I feel like if Iran was a secular country like Turkey, we would be huge trading partners and very comfortable around each other. Can't say the same about Iraq. Their sunni arabs are pretty much identical to wahabis from saudi arabia. Their kurds are very hard to deal with and are extremely fanatical. Their shias only like us because we are shia too. Remove this commonality and we're back to "you stupid fire worshipping ajam" and "you stupid lizard eating daughter burying suicide bomber."
 
@Abii, you yourself just said that Iranians and Arabs spend a lot of time in each others countries, from top government officials all the way down to regular people. That in itself speaks volumes.

Now Iran has been Shia for 500 years, and Islamic for much longer then that. Wether you like to admit it or not, that has left a big footprint on our country. A lot of Iranian identity is based off of Islam and Shiaism. So that alone would account for quite a bit of similarity between ourselves and Iraq. Also while Iraqis are Arabs culturally and linguistically, they are the same people as the Mesopotamians by blood. You can see this by even looking at them. Compare Nouri Maliki for example with a peninsular Saudi Arab, you can straight away tell the difference.

Now while this whole debate is subjective and neither you or I can be proved right or wrong. I will say that I have been to both Turkey (Ankara, Istanbul, Marmaris) and Iraq (Najaf, Karbala, Arbil) and can say I was very surprised about how close Iraq is to Iran.
 
@Abii, you yourself just said that Iranians and Arabs spend a lot of time in each others countries, from top government officials all the way down to regular people. That in itself speaks volumes.

Now Iran has been Shia for 500 years, and Islamic for much longer then that. Wether you like to admit it or not, that has left a big footprint on our country. A lot of Iranian identity is based off of Islam and Shiaism. So that alone would account for quite a bit of similarity between ourselves and Iraq. Also while Iraqis are Arabs culturally and linguistically, they are the same people as the Mesopotamians by blood. You can see this by even looking at them. Compare Nouri Maliki for example with a peninsular Saudi Arab, you can straight away tell the difference.

Now while this whole debate is subjective and neither you or I can be proved right or wrong. I will say that I have been to both Turkey (Ankara, Istanbul, Marmaris) and Iraq (Najaf, Karbala, Arbil) and can say I was very surprised about how close Iraq is to Iran.


That last bit is something I haven't done, so I guess I would need to back off from here on. I will get back to you in a couple of decades when I visit both those countries lol
 
Erdogan did wrong, The only thing he did was destroying Turkish relationship with her powerful neighbors Iran and other neighbors. and nowadays Pkk are getting more strong.beside, erdugan let alqaede and Taliban and other extremist Islamist terrorist groups come to Syria-turkey border. and i'm sure in future they start some activities against turkey like what Pkk is doing and also their culture in south part of Turkey will get change. let's look at the Pakistan-Afghanistan border,that will happen for turkey.
and i am sure asad will stay at power, because majority of Syrian people are pro him and asad accepted reforms and it's not an dictatorship anymore and iran and russia are behind syria. the only way to change current regime in syria is an military invading by USA. the only looser in this Game was Turkey that destroyed her relationship with her neighbors and make pkk more strong and brought extremist Islamist terrorist around her borders.
other Turkish politicians know it very well and they are blaming erdugan.

Erdo is no fool.....this was all set up from beginning with good relations with Syria and Iran. Turkey has achieved exactly what she was send to achieve. Mission accomplished and Turkey will be rewarded handsomely. Everything is as planned boys and girls.

Edit: everything is as planned but one thing that was underestimated by these powers was the level of support Syria would get from Russia and Iran, I don't think it was expected to be this much.

I have no proof for what I say....just observation.
 
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