Cold Start Doctrine, explained in a video.

[Leader]

Pakistan is very well prepared against India at any given day, any stupid adventure by indian army will be responded with a a befitted response. make no mistakes about it... and its better that both countries dont take this road.

 

[Rain]

Let me bring another side into discussion:
If India is making good progress on economic field, will it risk a War with Pakistan which she is sure can not win outright.
Half fought war has more dangers for agressor then the agressed ones.
Secondly PA army is busy in actual war for last 5 yrs. This experience is too much important for a new war. bu tmost of arm chair general ignore it.

Fault line with Pak War Planers at least who r here. they bank on International community to bail them out of war. That is not realistic as Intl community has its own interests and Pakistan interests do not coincides with any other country. whereas indian's intersts coincides with west at the moment.

If war occured It will benefit Pakistan in long term scenario. As war wont go Nuclear as India will not dare to loose it 50 yrs of hard work. limited scale war will put Pakistan on right course and they will come out of lethargical inertia that they are in right now.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Under no circumstances will China ever intervene directly in an Indo-Pak war, much less for a highway.
Generally Pakistani's tend to keep peddling these among numerous other fantasy flights to feel more secure.

Calm Down

There is no sane Pakistani here who thinks that China or for that matter any country will intervene on behalf of Pakistan. Frankly, Pakistan does not need a foreign power to intervene because it has enough firepower to crush anything India can throw against Pakistan, thus frankly we are quite secure . The best way to gauge Pakistan's response against Indian aggression is to see how Pakistan simulates and fights its enemies in war games.

Genesis, please take a look at what your own journals and think tanks have said and the history of Chinese actions.
Then look at the topography, whether even if China intervenes directly, would it have an impact in the time period that is required to make India go from offense to defence.

Now ask the question again and you will get your own answer.

The Chinese have made it quite clear to Senior Pakistani Strategists that China will not intervene militarily in an Indo-Pak conflict. They have also made it clear that although they will not intervene militarily, they will supply Pakistan with weapons and frankly that is all Pakistan needs. After the Mumbai attacks, arms were shipped to Pakistan on an emergency basis.

 

[illusion8]

Rogue extremist? I guess you do't follow politics much do you.

Russia had hundreds of years of international victory with the greatest being WW2, and today it is trying to reclaim the title of super power.

US had the Spanish American war and WW2 as well. They won the cold war and begin to contain with violence and sanctions whoever don't obey them. Saddam was trying to change status quo, so is Iran, African nations got destroyed, not for HR abuse, there's plenty of that in American sponsored states, but because they are not protectorates of the US.

Today US is shipping troops to East and South Asia to combat China on our rebirth.

US has bases everywhere and wants a few in India has one in Deigo Garcia. Russia has a few in other countries and wants more.


This is the game of great powers, if you can't stomach it close your eyes.

One needs to be dense or overly confident to talk war with a nuclear armed country, by your postings you appear to be naive - one, check out what the CCP has to say about relations with India before you propose a war with India. Secondly winning a war against India is not that easy as you naively seem to imagine in your day dreams.

 

[OrionHunter]

Pakistan is very well prepared against India at any given day, any stupid adventure by indian army will be responded with a a befitted response. make no mistakes about it... and its better that both countries dont take this road.

Gimme a break. You're talking from the top of your head when you don't even know the ground realities, for which you need to have served in the army which you haven't. As a civilian who is clueless on military affairs, it's better you don't make a fool of yourself by your ignorant comments.

Thanks!

 

[indiatester]

Calm Down

There is no sane Pakistani here who thinks that China or for that matter any country will intervene on behalf of Pakistan. Frankly, Pakistan does not need a foreign power to intervene because it has enough firepower to crush anything India can throw against Pakistan, thus frankly we are quite secure . The best way to gauge Pakistan's response against Indian aggression is to see how Pakistan simulates and fights its enemies in war games.

Is there any reputed public source where I can read more about it?

 

[Lil Mathew]

100 billion? I don't think it's there yet, but even then it's not a big deal.

China and India has disputes, this might solve it.

But above all China needs a signature victory to declare to the world, China has arrived on the world stage. India would seem perfect for that just strong enough for us to be recognized but not strong enough to pose much of challenge. The numbers and tech doesn't favor India.

Having said that a war between Pak and India seems unlikely at this point, especially with the economic situation both are in. But if it does happen, watch out.

cold start is a strategy to bypass pak's nuclear deterrent and to avoid a full blown war..
You must be a dreamer.. China joining India Pak war.. Signature victory over India.. Not much challenge from India.. Numbes and tech.. Thus solving dispute.. Easy victory.. Then for what pupose we are maintaining a very big army?? For what we are spending billions? For what we are making nuclear wepons??
Cold start is not for a victory over Pakistan.. It will be only a strategic response against Pak's proxy terror war..

 

[Leader]

Gimme a break. You're talking from the top of your head when you don't even know the ground realities, for which you need to have served in the army which you haven't. As a civilian who is clueless on military affairs, it's better you don't make a fool of yourself by your ignorant comments.

Thanks!

so you in military ???

 

[oFFbEAT]

....It is also widely believed that the next war will be between the common Pakistanis and Trained Indian army.

why, the 'trained' Pakistani army will join Indian army or what.....or will they be obliterated by 'untrained' Taliban by the time the next Indo-Pak war happens.....

 

[Commander T]

The thing is while India and China conduct cost benefit exercises before undertaking actions.
Pakistani's dont understand these things.

All it takes to fool Pakistani's are words - 'Saudi will intervene, China will intervene'. They tend to take these things seriously..and never learn from history.

In any case, the topography of Indo Chinese border precludes mass engagement. Its a border skirmish, and it would be ugly causing more damage to China's reputation than benefit. The same reason why China has never intervened till now.

the problem is indians too often overestimate themselves.....war is game in which you have to have a buddy........ for india it is russia and for pak its china..... today indians are dare to speak so loudly because pakistan is in a weak position and has been facing existential threats for last 30 years from super powers...while india, comparitively in russian safe hand managed to grow it,s economy during that time....but you forgets that time never remains the same....today we are weak tommorow we will be strong.....and when you say pak hopes that china will intervene, why do you forget 1965 when your PM ran to USSR and begged them to intervene.......despite having unparallel relation with saudia and china, nobody will intervene otherwise to protect her own intrests.....and nobody does neither pakistan as a country ever expected.......leave everything else....even if today, china takes army on indian border, i can bet that your PM will again run towards USA and RUSSIA....so stop saying that pak expects this or that.....everybody has allies and everybody takes help, even USA and Russia do, so what is india or pakistan....

 

[GR!FF!N]

cold start is a strategy to bypass pak's nuclear deterrent and to avoid a full blown war..

well,thats one objective...

see,India don't want to cross nuclear threshold,or going on and on and occupy as much land as it wishes and thus force Pakistan to retaliate with Nuclear weapons,which is their declared policy in case of too much "Loss of Land to India".but,India doesn't want to fight a defensive war too.thus,probably India will seek a quick and decisive war with few thousand sq km of captured land which will work as leverage during negotiation.

true,there is no "Cold Start" doctrine.no professional army just relies on a single plan.there exists a series of contingencies as well as various maneuvers and offensive based on Opponent's maneuvers.but what India is seeking is validating "Offensive using Highly Mobile Strike Corp in Network Centric warfare".thats the main objective,starting an offensive within short time using Corp size Battle Groups,capturing strategic lands as well as limited destruction of enemy in the process.short,but sharp response.

 

[rockstar08]

in war there will be no winners so lets hope for that there wont be any other war, but if happens both armies know their enemies very well, so Indians members here think and show themselves as supa powa should realize that your army generals know if we go for such adventure what pak is capable of giving them back in return , this rule also apply to Pakistan as well ...either Indians have any doctrine or not war is never a solution

 

[MilSpec]

Nature of warfare has changed..... It might be productive to stop chasing unicorns...

 

[SQ8]

Nature of warfare has changed..... It might be productive to stop chasing unicorns...

Unicorns are useful. On both sides. They provide a reason for continued funding scales that would otherwise be called into question.

In my view The Cold Start was an Idea among pragmatic elements in the IA staff... perhaps not even called cold start as the whole history on that is very murky...or rather two ideas..also.. it has little to do with 2008 other than people finding out about it then. It most likely had to do with Op Parakaram.

1. Improve mobilization times..which was pretty administrative rather than anything else.

2. Find ways to initiate conflict with Pakistan to inflict "psychological defeat" of the PA mostly and force the Pakistani establishment to stop terror attacks in return for them saving face in front of the nation.

3. Do not let the conflict go nuclear.

However, number 1 is not a process that is undertaken in months.. it takes 5 years or more and is still in progress in some form but I sense is facing difficulties.

Number 2 was even more difficult. Not because it could not be achieved, but because its actual success lied in a slice of Pakistani mentality where they would be left harangued but not enough to have them use the nuclear option. Air Strikes were much better suited but in their limited nature were quite likely to fail in achieving anything meaningful with the PAF around(regardless of its technological and numerical inferiority.. the PAF would still be fighting over its turf where it can leverage more assets in a shorter time against a limited air attack).This option was immedietly put on the table and activated in the wake of the 2008 bombings... and I stand by my statement(besides the press reports) that there was an Indian Incursion with the intent to both send a message and probe defenses in 2008.

A major air attack would likely lead to all out war... and the all out war.. in which meeting objective 2 while meeting 3 was as difficult for the Indian Military as is asking a one armed man with poor eyesight to thread a needle without his glasses. In other words, the probabilities and possibilities did not add up. Plainly because the Indian Military knew about the Nasr way before the Pakistani public ever did and the doctrine(or rather the lack of it as such) regarding Tac Nuclear weapons in Pakistan.

Which is not long around 2010.. number 2 was rehearsed and then put into the cabinet for ideas barring Pakistan losing its nuclear weapons or Indian efforts on the diplomatic fronts to pressurize Pakistan not working out. In that case its not cold start ..just all out war leading to a hot end. What the idea did achieve, was taking the air-land asset synergy worked out in the Sunderji Doctrine and updating it to the 21st Century. That is all that cold start was about in the end.
Taking the Indian military machine out of the late 80s and 90's mentality.. and bringing it into the 21st Century. Be it a conflict with Pakistan.. or China.

 

[MilSpec]

Unicorns are useful. On both sides. They provide a reason for continued funding scales that would otherwise be called into question.

In my view The Cold Start was an Idea among pragmatic elements in the IA staff... perhaps not even called cold start as the whole history on that is very murky...or rather two ideas..also.. it has little to do with 2008 other than people finding out about it then. It most likely had to do with Op Parakaram.

1. Improve mobilization times..which was pretty administrative rather than anything else.

2. Find ways to initiate conflict with Pakistan to inflict "psychological defeat" of the PA mostly and force the Pakistani establishment to stop terror attacks in return for them saving face in front of the nation.

3. Do not let the conflict go nuclear.

However, number 1 is not a process that is undertaken in months.. it takes 5 years or more and is still in progress in some form but I sense is facing difficulties.

Number 2 was even more difficult. Not because it could not be achieved, but because its actual success lied in a slice of Pakistani mentality where they would be left harangued but not enough to have them use the nuclear option. Air Strikes were much better suited but in their limited nature were quite likely to fail in achieving anything meaningful with the PAF around(regardless of its technological and numerical inferiority.. the PAF would still be fighting over its turf where it can leverage more assets in a shorter time against a limited air attack).This option was immedietly put on the table and activated in the wake of the 2008 bombings... and I stand by my statement(besides the press reports) that there was an Indian Incursion with the intent to both send a message and probe defenses in 2008.

A major air attack would likely lead to all out war... and the all out war.. in which meeting objective 2 while meeting 3 was as difficult for the Indian Military as is asking a one armed man with poor eyesight to thread a needle without his glasses. In other words, the probabilities and possibilities did not add up. Plainly because the Indian Military knew about the Nasr way before the Pakistani public ever did and the doctrine(or rather the lack of it as such) regarding Tac Nuclear weapons in Pakistan.

Which is not long around 2010.. number 2 was rehearsed and then put into the cabinet for ideas barring Pakistan losing its nuclear weapons or Indian efforts on the diplomatic fronts to pressurize Pakistan not working out. In that case its not cold start ..just all out war leading to a hot end. What the idea did achieve, was taking the air-land asset synergy worked out in the Sunderji Doctrine and updating it to the 21st Century. That is all that cold start was about in the end.
Taking the Indian military machine out of the late 80s and 90's mentality.. and bringing it into the 21st Century. Be it a conflict with Pakistan.. or China.

Very well said, On CSD on various threads I have made my views clear about IBG and Air support.

But on a different note, i seriously think low intensity conflict will be counter productive to India, India will have larger losses, Instead, a full fleeted air interdiction blitz, with multiple IBG's within limited time would play to the advantage.

Another issue is objective, if the objective is to cause grave damage to military structure, why should India make any ground incursions into pakistan to hold any territory.

Swift air interdiction, with limited ground movement, and recall should be more than enough, spontaneous localised escalations followed by negotiations... If India puts a division anywhere near lahore, there is no holding back pakistan from detonating it's mini atomic hathiyaar, as it can fall back on the claim , we told you so....

Thus instead of holding territory, attack ground radars, military, pwer and transportation network. Keep away from civilians and draw pakistan into border conflict..