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COAS Gen Asim Munir losing Army's confidence with nepotism

"Good things come to those who wait", so do read the whole post, you might learn something.

I heard the whole video. It makes a nice subject for analysis.

Lets go by headings this time, shall we :happy:

The Utterly Confused Wajahat

This isn't the first specimen of a confused character that I am witnessing in Pakistan, not just a biased reporter again. Like I said, media is supposed to be unbiased, its job is to bring the news, not takes sides and not start pointing fingers through blaming, instead asking questions and looking towards the viewers/nation to answer those questions, instead of answering those themselves.

WSK failed miserably at all fronts, but why and where did he fail ? No its not just his biased media production of this video, there is more.

We know the series he covered on Pakistan Army, "We are Soldiers". He mentions in video that according to him there are some 250 battalions in Pakistan Army and out of those, he has interacted with more than 100 on the frontlines. He categorically mentions jawans and soldiers. Now two questions arise here.
a. Wajahat didn't know how Pakistan Army goes on and about when he was conducting the series "We are Soldiers" ?
b. The news, the plans, the discussions, the table talk, the planning, the execution - everything happens in HQ, not frontlines.

Lets start elaborating now.

a. Wajahat roti ko bhi chochi bolta hay na ? All the martial laws, all the political involvement by Army and other blames that Army carries have been there since 1947, so why did hypocritical WSK not speak about them when he was conducting the series "We are Soldiers". Why did he take up the job when he mentions martial law of Ayub Khan in the video which occured before he was born, he knows how MQM came into being when he was in school and how Musharraf overthrew N-league, where were his brains then ?

The answer is, he is an opportunist hypocrite, all these incidents were infront of him, so why turn on Army now ? He could have plainly told the Military press that because of such and such that had happened where Army did such and such, he would refuse to cover the series, instead he would make a channel and talk all about that Army had been doing.

The coward and hypocritical WSK chose to look another way. I always said that public is corrupt, yes he as a bloody civilian is another product of hypocrite public of Pakistan showing true colors just when it suits him.

In this video he used a sentence,"Pak Foj jo harkatien karti hui aa rahi hay".....Imagine a journalist not knowing this before he started earning money and enlisting in series "We are Soldiers". Greedy for money, making connections, forgetting that his job as a journo is to investigate - but the low IQ journo closed his mind and kept on conducting series even when he as a journo knew better than public.

Just another hypocrite journo of Pakistan !


b. In military, HQ holds the most value, take down the HQ and an entire formation can cease to exist as a fighting force, because all orders, all fire support, all reinforcements, all plans etc come from the HQ. Standing between troops j frontlines gives what information ? Terrain, weaponry, enemy, defenses, strategic deployment, etc. It doesnt tell you what the brass is doing and thinking, because all standing the in the frontlines are combatants. They will take orders and execute.

The information, the news and the policy comes from the HQ, not the frontlines. Sure he made a lot of contacts in the Army who will be posted in different HQs to tell him what's happening in the Army, but then again he is getting news through their POVs, some will take in favor of the topic at hand, others will oppose it, so WSK will then deduce from their words, which he mentions in the video and then tell it to the public.

Now for a bit of more fun and reality lets come towards members of PDF.

Members of PDF who used to Love Army- Another breed of Dumb Public

I see threads popping up, omg i used to love army, i would go kiss tanks, i would salute soldiers, but it was IK who opened up my eyes, and now I loathe Army coz actually what I am ? A low IQ idiot who has never used an iota of brain in my life.

Once again, just like khota dimagh of WSK, the members who loved Army and now hate it, are in the same boat of Low IQ idiots who even when knew that Army had conducted martial laws, and did what not, even before they were born, had no sense in them to actually sit down one day on their own and think what am I doing ? Now they raise hands like brains less morons, hey i used to love army too just like you and now i hate army just like you. Yes, you are made for each other in love and hatred lol.

So what is proved ?

The public, WSK and the members of PDF have no brains of their own. They need to be slapped on their behinds to tell them that hey Army did this and this, did you ever realize on your own ? Of course not, coz you are a produce of an emotional public who lacks brains of all sorts. This time it was IK who slapped them, and now they have been" enlightened ". Their teachers taught them Pak studies, even they didnt have brains to think that Army has taken over the country so many times, should the path of an emotional brat be chosen or should once a rusty brain should be used to analyze. No credit to teachers here, these members have wasted their half lives thriving in love of the Army.

Don't worry, I will talk about myself also later but boy am I glad this member tagged me, my points just get proven repeatedly.

The Video

Lets go with headings again for easy understanding.

1. The Role of an Intel Officer

He mentions about a Lt Col who nabbed yadav and was then given a task to keep an eye on PTI activities in the UK. This has many sides to it and I will talk on them all.

Firstly lets try to understand the intel structure and role of an intel agency in foreign countries. Every embassy, every consulate is attached with intel officers, WSK mentions LO (Liaison officer, but there are other officers too. Their foremost job is security of embassy against terror and other incidents along with internal auditing and surveillance of employees of embassy, then is the observation of the host country and its political dynamics.

WSK mentioned keeping an eye on Pakistani diaspora of UK. one of the jobs of intel agency is to report on sentiments of own nationals in that country. It doesn't always include forming a team and creating a propaganda cell, that usually happens in a state of war with another nation. The foremost job is to report. The LO is assigned tasks to do and he is supplanted by junior and senior officers. He and his team are allowed to recruit locally if need be and he and his team are given funds to do so.

Secondly, WSK went far ahead saying that "Uk is the most important listening station for Pakistan Army". NO, this is where is utterly wrong and not just here, he is wrong about UK in most things that he mentioned that will be covered in next points. The most important listening station is India, some countries of ex-eastern bloc, USA, Iran and other countries surrounding Pakistan and India.

Another thing, since WSK is sitting in UK so it becomes a places of interest suddenly and whatever future of Pakistan is, has to be decided in UK, lol, yeah sure try and take all the importance WSK. On top of that he portrays UK as almost an enemy country with which Pakistan is at war, cut the noise please, Pakistan has other enemy countries, not UK.

Thirdly, the LT Col he mentions was not a one man show who apprehended Yadav, it was whole team of many agents and officers who had kept an eye on Yadav for more than two years and this was being reported up to DG ISI level and orders were trickling down from intel's top brass how to apprehend Yadav and the top brass succeeded in apprehending him. This 3rd class hypocrite journo starts portraying that Lt Col did everything on his own, good propaganda to bring some spice in the story so it looks meaningful.

Fourthly, as an officer on duty, Lt Col had to perform any duty that was assigned to him, refusal means being sent back home. No surprises here, however, the way WSK has mentioned it is doubtful that it happened that way. WSK heard from others and then said in video, what is the real story we might never know or maybe someday it comes out. Some other officer will be sent at his place and the job will get done.

2. The Postings

In Pakistan Army, at any given time roughly 65% of officers are never contended with their postings. Everybody thinks he should have been posted at a better place. Yet even then Ms Branch listens to the officers and sometimes asks them where they wanted to be posted, it usually occurs with ranks who have spend much time in "hard areas", "ops areas", or are about to be retired or have never been posted to a major cantonment. Usually, postings and even promitions change at the last minute. Orders get cancelled and orders are re-written, this happens all the time.

I like the way how WSK has made all this spicy by mentioning officers known to COAS and Ex Coas and their postings in UK, how would the video get likes and comments otherwise, good on you WSK.

Lets break it down again.

Firstly, an officer doesn't have access to another officers OEI (Officer Efficiency Index), 80+ is a sure shot general usually, 70+ is average, the below ones retire sooner. So WSK can hear from another officer about COAS's SIL posted to UK, but he cannot verify the OEI either. There is no way to say that the officer deserved the posting or not.

WSK mentions Ayub's son failing PMA test. Even I have seen Lt Gen son, Maj Gen sons, and Brig's sons failing ISSB and no sifarish was made, today they have civilian careers. Offences in PMA were not pardoned for general's sons also.

I have also seen most useless officers making it to captain or major, but retiring soon, even if their father's were serving. I have a coursemate who retired before his father (retired recently) and we still make fun of him, as his dad decided not to back him up. So lots of examples out there.

WSK says that Army should have such officers when he gave Gen Ayub's son example when he mentioned nepotism, they do exist, he has blinded himself intentionally.

Secondly, like i mentioned that a considerable number of officers are never happy about their postings, they always think they deserve better, even in any case is WSJ hinting that COAS's SIL has been sent there to UK perform another duty, I cant say, but I have myself seen also officers complaining that I was more capable than that officer but I am posted here and he is posted at such n such post which I think I deserve.

If i talk to my coursemates and I am told that a coursemate whose ranking was very low has been posted on career posts, or in premier formations or at lucrative post which others wanted or deserved more, even I get surprised. And then I hear all the whinging from others that he didnt deserve it, we did.

Whenever a general's son got posted somewhere at a good post, everyone would say yeah coz his dad is a general so this occurred. Nobody thinks other is better than him to be assigned a good post.

Same old story of postings.

Thirdly, WSK portrays UK posting of COAS's SIL and Bajwa's relative as a post like " Jannat ka phal". As if this is theeee most lucrative post in the whole world for an officer of Pakistan Army , NO its not. The lucrative places for studying and teaching are USA, China, Australia, Malaysia, KSA, UAE etc, These are places where Army officers actually want to go for courses and teaching. Actually in cadet cadre, it's sandhurst in UK, then ADA in Canberra and the one in USA (forgot name), which are famed, but cadets route is different than officers.

Fourthly, DS (directing staff) is still a junior post which covers the point in career. Its like this that an officer has to pass three roles at certain ranks - a command position of CO, a staff position in a HQ and an instructor position in a military school. The important post of instructor is CI (Chief Instructor) which is above than DS (or Lt Col rank). A CI's post may lead him to be HOD (head of dept) or even Commandant of the institution.

Infact, its Brigadier and above rank that some officers went abroad at certain posts of instructors or students of war courses and then made it to Maj Gen or Lt gen rank, but even then the 2 star or 3 star isn't guaranteed. A posting of major or Lt Col as DS or student holds far less value in over all career.

It's not like, hey this officer was DS in UK, so he should be promoted while other was DS in USA and he wont be promoted.

The Public Relations and existing Bajwa Doctrine

Army has been short of officers since early 2000's, the estimate in mid-2000's was 15,000 deficient, which was made up through 4th Batt in PMA. Still, the recruiting of officers has not stooped, the recruiting standards have not relaxed and the induction goes on without any hinderance. Pakistan Army shows presence in natural disasters and the troops are the first responders, so public knows that even if nobody will reach them, soldiers will. That is what keeps the public and military strong and ongoing.

Now about forcefully linking up Munir and Bajwa. They are both from different backgrounds where as any policy, any SOP which needs to be inculcated with in the Army may take time or it maybe adopted quickly, depending upon necessity of the situation. Army has been bad mouthed by PTI, well not just Army, even other institutions, yet Army is considering not to deploy troops at Polling stations, which maybe a different course if exercised in reality. Bajwa's name in a story keeps the story spicy and alive, since people look for answers as IK has completely bad mouthed him after his exit from PM seat while IK was all praises for Bajwa when in PM seat. Its a ripe porridge made by IK to keep himself relevant since remember the influence of the Ex-COAS diminishes with time.

WSK is trying his best in video to show that so much is happening and that it may have long lasting effects on Pakistan and Army, but it wont. He himself mentions there wont be a mutiny, even I know there wont be one, coz postings are just routine in Army, changing of posting orders at last moment is also something that military officers get used to as the career progresses.

PPP and N league both existed since decades and both have been on the war front with the Army. WSK calls N league another strong establishment, but he misses out that Zardari is biggest player of all, unmatched with anyone in N league or PTI. Where IK's mind stops working, Zardari's mind starts thinking from that point. That is the level of difference that even low IQ WSK cannot fathom.

In the end now, I said up there somewhere I would talk about myself. I had an opportunity to be uniformed and I didn't avail it because I had my reasons, one of them was about taking orders. If I was in so much love with Army (as I am judged repeatedly on PDF), I would have joined it. But unlike utterly confused WSK and the ex-lovers of Army made up of confused lot of PDf members, I knew what i will be getting at without use of emotions. Even after being told by many that you would have been a sure shot Maj General, you wasted the seat of a 2-Star general, I replied I would have retired a major as I can't take orders from some officers, even when they are few and far between, while under the command of a good officer is a privilege. I had claim over 2 artillery regiments and 2 infantry regiments. I knew that the technical side of things will help me stay float with bosses as they can't deny the technical aspects of things which come as facts on science. In such a case, even artillery would have been a good choice as it uses technical calculations and trajectories, not that Signals was bad, but whether in Signals or Artillery, there would come a time when I would be posted on staff position in any HQ and I wouldn't be able to take orders from a senior officer who would have his own insecurities and complexity issues. Like I always mention two things - KNOWLEDGE and INFORMATION. These two should be put in practice, rarely emotions coz we are humans after all. Similar thing in civilian career, no boss could refute the results of a software tool or the calculations of radio waves for communication. I stuck to the technical side in career and stood away from BS of bosses pushing me around, using technical analysis to put forth my findings.
I have read your entire post 3 times before responding. Nevertheless, stick to the topic of Nepotism and feel free to point out if I have missed any salient points in your response.
  1. The issue isn't Wajahat et al or their antics or love for fame.​
  2. The issue isn't whether the posts which he discussed in his vlog are the most lucrative or second or even third tier in terms of prestige or career enhancement​
  3. The first issue is that any foreign posting in UK carries with it some prestige.​
  4. The second issue is have the Brother-in-Law of Bajwa (former Chief) and Son-in-Law of Munir (current Chief) been posted?​
If 3 & 4 are factually correct then without transparency it can be termed as nothing but Nepotism, it is the very definition of it & stinks of Favoritism.

Your post is a clumsy attempt to derail the issue, detract from the subject and inject superfluous points so the meaningful discussion on the issue of Nepotism in Pak Army can be avoided.​
 
I have read your entire post 3 times before responding. Nevertheless, stick to the topic of Nepotism and feel free to point out if I have missed any salient points in your response.
  1. The issue isn't Wajahat et al or their antics or love for fame.​
  2. The issue isn't whether the posts which he discussed in his vlog are the most lucrative or second or even third tier in terms of prestige or career enhancement​
  3. The first issue is that any foreign posting in UK carries with it some prestige.​
  4. The second issue is have the Brother-in-Law of Bajwa (former Chief) and Son-in-Law of Munir (current Chief) been posted?​
If 3 & 4 are factually correct then without transparency it can be termed as nothing but Nepotism, it is the very definition of it & stinks of Favoritism.

Your post is a clumsy attempt to derail the issue, detract from the subject and inject superfluous points so the meaningful discussion on the issue of Nepotism in Pak Army can be avoided.​
Even after reading 3 times, you couldn't pick out why officers are generally not satisfied with postings. Read it 3 more times again but if result is same then don't bother.

This reminds me, there is also another component for good ACRs from CO that needs to be by-passed in a lucid manner. A CO cannot give Alpha (grade A) to every officer in the unit, young officers can make mistakes in duties, reports are made and some reports can be dangerous to the career earlier on.

One way of by-passing this to choose a unit wisely, especially where a claim is not made, then the options lie open usually. A unit which is claimed by son of a General, will obviously get the son as officer in that unit and then there are multiple pathways. General will tell the son, its my unit, be very careful so the son as officer is under pressure from day one. He is poised to get Alpha on ACRs. If a General's son gets Alpha, the general consensus is again - favoritism, it may exist, it may not exist.

Depends on CO and all COs are different. Also depends upon on courses which keep coming in the unit and the officers have to attend them. A CO may send an officer to any course, and has the reports to defend his stance.

The defining of career has started. So basically, for those officers who know that son will be going to a unit, the planning of selection of unit starts. The options maybe:
1. Choose a newly raised unit.
2. Choose a unit where its easy to get Alpha due to zero or less competition with young officers.
3. Choose a unit which has been diluted of its officers to raise another unit.

Another notion is that going into infantry has bright chances of becoming a Lt Col at least, or with some effort a Brigadier, since the units and brigades are far more, actually same goes for artillery.

The CO knows that General has to retire within a few years, even if he takes a decision to send General's son on a sidelined course or duty. MS Branch knows the same. There are roughly 200 Generals in Pakistan Army, favoritism can occur for how many ? a few maybe, not majority.

Personality clashes, personal differences, personal grudges, etc they exist. I remember a case arrived where a Colonel under command of a Major General was sidelined upon personal differences. He complained. He was told by concerned panel to stay quiet for two years. The Major General retired after two years, and this Colonel became Lt General eventually.

My own coursemate, son of JCO (subedar), below average ACRs but did well in Staff course, his career has taken a new height, which was once thought to be doomed. A senior of mine, son of Lt General, and son in law of another Lt General, all ACRs Alpha graded, top of his course in every course, retired as major after top graded in staff course, but one fault ruined his career and 2 x Lt Generals (both family as mentioned above) couldn't save him.

Numerous examples out there.
 
Even after reading 3 times, you couldn't pick out why officers are generally not satisfied with postings. Read it 3 more times again but if result is same then don't bother.

This reminds me, there is also another component for good ACRs from CO that needs to be by-passed in a lucid manner. A CO cannot give Alpha (grade A) to every officer in the unit, young officers can make mistakes in duties, reports are made and some reports can be dangerous to the career earlier on.

One way of by-passing this to choose a unit wisely, especially where a claim is not made, then the options lie open usually. A unit which is claimed by son of a General, will obviously get the son as officer in that unit and then there are multiple pathways. General will tell the son, its my unit, be very careful so the son as officer is under pressure from day one. He is poised to get Alpha on ACRs. If a General's son gets Alpha, the general consensus is again - favoritism, it may exist, it may not exist.

Depends on CO and all COs are different. Also depends upon on courses which keep coming in the unit and the officers have to attend them. A CO may send an officer to any course, and has the reports to defend his stance.

The defining of career has started. So basically, for those officers who know that son will be going to a unit, the planning of selection of unit starts. The options maybe:
1. Choose a newly raised unit.
2. Choose a unit where its easy to get Alpha due to zero or less competition with young officers.
3. Choose a unit which has been diluted of its officers to raise another unit.

Another notion is that going into infantry has bright chances of becoming a Lt Col at least, or with some effort a Brigadier, since the units and brigades are far more, actually same goes for artillery.

The CO knows that General has to retire within a few years, even if he takes a decision to send General's son on a sidelined course or duty. MS Branch knows the same. There are roughly 200 Generals in Pakistan Army, favoritism can occur for how many ? a few maybe, not majority.

Personality clashes, personal differences, personal grudges, etc they exist. I remember a case arrived where a Colonel under command of a Major General was sidelined upon personal differences. He complained. He was told by concerned panel to stay quiet for two years. The Major General retired after two years, and this Colonel became Lt General eventually.

My own coursemate, son of JCO (subedar), below average ACRs but did well in Staff course, his career has taken a new height, which was once thought to be doomed. A senior of mine, son of Lt General, and son in law of another Lt General, all ACRs Alpha graded, top of his course in every course, retired as major after top graded in staff course, but one fault ruined his career and 2 x Lt Generals (both family as mentioned above) couldn't save him.

Numerous examples out there.
I appreciate your time to respond.

I read your earlier post and I read this post multiple posts. You are discussing generalizations and your experience but you have yet to discuss the issue at hand which is as follows:​
  1. The first issue is that any foreign posting in UK carries with it some prestige.​
  2. The second issue is have the Brother-in-Law of Bajwa (former Chief) and Son-in-Law of Munir (current Chief) been posted to UK?​
We are not talking about relatives of random generals but relatives of former & current COAS simultaneously!

If 1 & 2 are factually correct then without transparency it can be termed as nothing but Nepotism, it is the very definition of it & stinks of Favoritism.

If 1 & 2 are factually incorrect please set the record straight. If you are unaware of these postings or cannot comment on the specifics of these two postings please clearly state that you are unaware or unable to comment.

You keep writing in circles giving random examples but are unable or unwilling to discuss the Raison d'être of why the charges of Nepotism & Favoritism are being leveled.

1944 Simple Sabotage Field Manual (CIA)

Those who don't know take a look at the two posts by Siganlian and then look at points 2 & 4 of the CIA manual.


Satobtage1-2.png


I am not saying that he is doing it intentionally but the end result is the actual issue at hand will be lost and people will marvel at the length of the posts and auxiliary issues, examples & anecdotes which are inserted into the dialogue and everyone will forget that the specific case of posting (to UK) of relatives of former & current COAS simultaneously which is highly unusual at face value and requires consideration.

People get easily distracted and start discussing Adil Raja, Haider Mehdi & Wajahat Saeed Khan instead of the role of the Army in bringing a country to its knees within a year and how it can be reformed and prevented. I was not around in the 1970s but I am sure that similar tactics were used to take the attention of the Nation away from the debacle of 1971, breakup of East-Pakistan & formation of Bangladesh.



 
I was not around in the 1970s but I am sure that similar tactics were used to take the attention of the Nation away from the debacle of 1971, breakup of East-Pakistan & formation of Bangladesh.
By the way. On the face of it, his stance is that GHQ doesn’t need public support. So it has no need to take anyone’s attention away from anything.

Unless of course all his questions were just rhetorical and just a method to explore the opposite.
 
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By the way. On the face of it, his stance is that GHQ doesn’t need public support. So it has no need to take anyones attention away from anything.

Unless of course all his questions were just rhetorical and just a method to explore the opposite.
Which is true.
British tried but never prioritized public support but it's prime objective was looting the country

GHQ might have tried it but If it interfer with their prime objective a k.a looting the country then it doesn't matter the same way it didn't matter for British when they were looting the country

The playbook is same..British also used religion (by creating peer fakir and even new religion like ahmadis), warfare, interpersonal fighting, poverty, famine etc for control same way army is doing
 
Even after reading 3 times, you couldn't pick out why officers are generally not satisfied with postings. Read it 3 more times again but if result is same then don't bother.

This reminds me, there is also another component for good ACRs from CO that needs to be by-passed in a lucid manner. A CO cannot give Alpha (grade A) to every officer in the unit, young officers can make mistakes in duties, reports are made and some reports can be dangerous to the career earlier on.

One way of by-passing this to choose a unit wisely, especially where a claim is not made, then the options lie open usually. A unit which is claimed by son of a General, will obviously get the son as officer in that unit and then there are multiple pathways. General will tell the son, its my unit, be very careful so the son as officer is under pressure from day one. He is poised to get Alpha on ACRs. If a General's son gets Alpha, the general consensus is again - favoritism, it may exist, it may not exist.

Depends on CO and all COs are different. Also depends upon on courses which keep coming in the unit and the officers have to attend them. A CO may send an officer to any course, and has the reports to defend his stance.

The defining of career has started. So basically, for those officers who know that son will be going to a unit, the planning of selection of unit starts. The options maybe:
1. Choose a newly raised unit.
2. Choose a unit where its easy to get Alpha due to zero or less competition with young officers.
3. Choose a unit which has been diluted of its officers to raise another unit.

Another notion is that going into infantry has bright chances of becoming a Lt Col at least, or with some effort a Brigadier, since the units and brigades are far more, actually same goes for artillery.

The CO knows that General has to retire within a few years, even if he takes a decision to send General's son on a sidelined course or duty. MS Branch knows the same. There are roughly 200 Generals in Pakistan Army, favoritism can occur for how many ? a few maybe, not majority.

Personality clashes, personal differences, personal grudges, etc they exist. I remember a case arrived where a Colonel under command of a Major General was sidelined upon personal differences. He complained. He was told by concerned panel to stay quiet for two years. The Major General retired after two years, and this Colonel became Lt General eventually.

My own coursemate, son of JCO (subedar), below average ACRs but did well in Staff course, his career has taken a new height, which was once thought to be doomed. A senior of mine, son of Lt General, and son in law of another Lt General, all ACRs Alpha graded, top of his course in every course, retired as major after top graded in staff course, but one fault ruined his career and 2 x Lt Generals (both family as mentioned above) couldn't save him.

Numerous examples out there.

What was the fault that caused him to retire as a major?
 
There will be no mutiny, even though most die hard anti establishment fans would hope for.

The tenure is 3 years, but what is more concerning is the rot that has seeped so deep into the military. You had Bajwa, by all counts a pathetic General and encouraged nepotism. Now you have a continuation of Bajwa doctrine in the name of Asim Munir. How did these men come on top? There is something very wrong here.

I tend to look things in a zoom out picture. All these incidents are an effect. The cause is something very deep rooted. That cause is deep rooted nepotism and absence of meritocracy through which you have Generals perpetrating worse kind of human rights violations and keeping up with their mafia like systems.

Forget about the Military enacting a JAG and starting proceedings against the Generals. Forget about PTI coming to the helm and acting against the Generals. If IK can do it, then I’d be very surprised.

Long story short, work on frameworks / processes through which these cucks don’t go up the chain. There are creative ways of doing it without raising alarm bells.
 

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