COAS and DG ISI reach PM house

[maithil]

Paraphrasing Desmond Tutu..

If you are neutral in situations of national security crisis, you have chosen the side of the .......

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Meengla]

Lots of things are said in conversations with foreign governments. Based on what I read and saw on some of the shows, it seems the point that was communicated was that US/Pakistani trajectory is on divergent path and there would be repercussions for Pakistan. Is that news? I don't think so. Staying on FATF grey list, blocking of T-129 purchase etc. were already pointing to a rocky road ahead.

As far as the no-confidence motion being mentioned in the talks is concerned, perhaps that was below the belt by any outsider. But why the assumption that the NCV was prompted by this conversation given the talk of NCV by opposition was going on for weeks even before the Pak-US ambassadorial meeting with Donald Lu (Assistance Secretary of State for South Asia)?

While the outsiders will try to influence Pakistani politics for their own interests, IK and PTI then need to make sure that their allies stay in their corner.

Good analysis.
There is only circumstantial evidence to link the NCV with some foreign power. The NCV has been in the discussing for a long time and every Tom, Dick and Harry knows that in Pakistan and so would foreign powers. Active financial sponsoring of the NCV by some foreign power is unlikely, some 'letter' or not. There are plenty with deep pockets inside Pakistan itself to sponsor the NCV. While it would suit America to have a more pliant govt in Pakistan or at least a govt which would be careful in public posturing, I don't think any new govt in Pakistan will be too pliant on core Pakistani interests.

This whole drama, IMO, is political and financial opportunism of compromised politicians. Such politicians, while getting a chunk of cash right now, would also try to benefit in the future elections against a weakened PTI. MQM-P is a a vivid example of that. People of Karachi should put to shame such Haramkhors!!

 

[yusufjee]

Good analysis.
There is only circumstantial evidence to link the NCV with some foreign power. The NCV has been in the discussing for a long time and every Tom, Dick and Harry knows that in Pakistan and so would foreign powers. Active financial sponsoring of the NCV by some foreign power is unlikely, some 'letter' or not. There are plenty with deep pockets inside Pakistan itself to sponsor the NCV.

But it seems like the NCV was mentioned by date as in they knew when that will happen so that is a game-changer for me. If anything ever comes out of it, I believe PPP is the party that is responsible for colluding with the USA.

Also, the establishment has finally accepted the threat is real. 24 din say soye huay that?

 

[Ssan]

Good analysis.
There is only circumstantial evidence to link the NCV with some foreign power. The NCV has been in the discussing for a long time and every Tom, Dick and Harry knows that in Pakistan and so would foreign powers. Active financial sponsoring of the NCV by some foreign power is unlikely, some 'letter' or not. There are plenty with deep pockets inside Pakistan itself to sponsor the NCV. While it would suit America to have a more pliant govt in Pakistan or at least a govt which would be careful in public posturing, I don't think any new govt in Pakistan will be too pliant on core Pakistani interests.

This whole drama, IMO, is political and financial opportunism of compromised politicians. Such politicians, while getting a chunk of cash right now, would also try to benefit in the future elections against a weakened PTI. MQM-P is a a vivid example of that. People of Karachi should put to shame such Haramkhors!!

MQM has 4 seats from Karachi - PTI has 15-16 seats from Karachi - meanwhile PML-N has 7 seats from Lahore and PTI has only 4 seats from Lahore- I don’t understand shudnt people in Lahore be responsible to do more of the shaming?

MQM has 4 seats from Karachi - PTI has 15-16 seats from Karachi - meanwhile PML-N has 7 seats from Lahore and PTI has only 4 seats from Lahore- I don’t understand shudnt people in Lahore be more ashamed?

My point being that it does not make good sense to be ethnic or regionalistic about this

 

[Meengla]

But it seems like the NCV was mentioned by date as in they knew when that will happen so that is a game-changer for me. If anything ever comes out of it, I believe PPP is the party that is responsible for colluding with the USA.

Also, the establishment has finally accepted the threat is real. 24 din say soye huay that?

Even knowing the exact date is not a big deal. Once something is known to more than very few people, it gets known widely and such things happen all the time, sometimes even in richer countries. And here we are talking about Pakistan.

I still think this is opportunism for money and gaining seats in the next elections. Those politicians, who are on shaky grounds, wouldn't mind getting a huge chunk of money, especially when their terms are almost ending.

But even if Imran Khan is toppled via NCV and some other guy is elected--how long before that person will have to face another elections?? Not long even if the current assemblies run their tenure.

In short, this is another quick money making opportunity for some politicians. Happened before in Pakistan's history.

However, by presenting this as foreign conspiracy in a convincing way, this time it is going to be different. I really don't see how the opposition parties going to benefit long term.

MQM has 4 seats from Karachi - PTI has 15-16 seats from Karachi - meanwhile PML-N has 7 seats from Lahore and PTI has only 4 seats from Lahore- I don’t understand shudnt people in Lahore be more ashamed?


My point being that it does not make good sense to be ethnic or regionalistic about this

Of course Lahoris should be ashamed. I was giving an example. But MQM, as a block, has been doing these political blackmailing since 1988--go read today's Dawn editorial about MQM.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Even knowing the exact date is not a big deal. Once something is known to more than very few people, it gets known widely and such things happen all the time, sometimes even in richer countries. And here we are talking about Pakistan.

I still think this is opportunism for money and gaining seats in the next elections. Those politicians, who are on shaky grounds, wouldn't mind getting a huge chunk of money, especially when their terms are almost ending.

But even if Imran Khan is toppled via NCV and some other guy is elected--how long before that person will have to face another elections?? Not long even if the current assemblies run their tenure.

In short, this is another quick money making opportunity for some politicians. Happened before in Pakistan's history.

However, by presenting this as foreign conspiracy in a convincing way, this time it is going to be different. I really don't see how the opposition parties going to benefit long term.



Of course Lahoris should be ashamed. I was giving an example. But MQM, as a block, has been doing these political blackmailing since 1988--go read today's Dawn editorial about MQM.

I think the point @Ssan is making that Karachiites support PTI, not MQM. So, whatever MQM's doing is irrelevant as far as Karachiites are concerned.

 

[Darth.Vad3r]

Terrorism

Like this has not been done in past?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Can IK declare emergency based on the genuine threat to national security and put those who collaborated under military trial courts?

Ofkeyle kalkan zarala oturur - He who stands up with anger sits down with loss....

Please note the following:

• It's a political problem enveloped by security, so face it with politics enveloped by security
• IK has established an emotional attachment with the common folks. It's the prime mover of the domestic changes and international opinion
• Mass movement is the best way to bring about the legitimate change
• Elections are the safety valves to release the pressure in democracies
• Direct military intervention weakens the national security
• As for the USA, they want to re-negotiate the "new normal" with Pak given the fast changing geo-political/financial/economic realities that are exponentially going against the US interests. The USA has no way to decelerate it. They want to figure out how far the Pak Deep State wants to go
• Don't lose hope on the Pak Deep State. They have won you many stuffs many a time
• Keep your cool. It's the best response to your enemies who want you to get agitated
• The paramount is the Veka-i Devlet

 

[SQ8]

I think the point @Ssan is making that Karachiites support PTI, not MQM. So, whatever MQM's doing is irrelevant as far as Karachiites are concerned.

MQMs hold is with either die hard supporter(those who were active on the front lines since the 80s) or with the lower middle class slumpartment inhabitants (will catch flak for using that term)

 

[Hulk]

A letter from a foreign country (USA) will change the PM of Pakistan ?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1509096819866968073

So it’s Pakistan government own letter.

 

[PakFactor]

 

[lightoftruth]

So it’s Pakistan government own letter.

Notes of meeting between pakistani diplomats and their American counterparts.

 

[truthseeker2010]

MQMs hold is with either die hard supporter(those who were active on the front lines since the 80s) or with the lower middle class slumpartment inhabitants (will catch flak for using that term)

What MQM did now by siding with PPP is the last nail in their coffin. NCV has definitely made PTI stronger in karachi.

 

[blain2]

MQMs hold is with either die hard supporter(those who were active on the front lines since the 80s) or with the lower middle class slumpartment inhabitants (will catch flak for using that term)

Can you also elaborate on the kind of supporters the PTI's hold is on? I smell snobbery. Otherwise how are the PTI supporters in the slums of Peshawar or those of the PPP's in the interior Sind or those of PML-N in the lower classes of Punjab any different? The core of any political party are the lower income, less educated masses because they buy into the party's pitch. Just wondering why is Karachi and MQM any different?