COAS and DG ISI reach PM house

[Maula Jatt]

Many people are secret burping? Basically you hold it for a bit before you let it out where the sound gets muffled. It is actually a common practice

 

[ghazi52]

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They are on same page / face ....

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[R Wing]

Members, if the posts are simply targeting the military because of any member's political frustrations, they will be deleted.

Since we are not in the business of deciding what, how much and which kind of critique is appropriate, posts that are abusive, condescending and/or critical of the military/establishment will be deleted from this point on.

Feel free to express your strong views from your personal social media handles.

- On Kaptan's orders!

Why will posts critical of the military be deleted? Criticizing the military isn't possible on this forum? That's news.

 

[blain2]

Why will posts critical of the military be deleted? Criticizing the military isn't possible on this forum? That's news.

Correct. Given the situation unfolding, posts are essentially becoming a gripe-fest with all sorts of unsubstantiated claims being thrown around with abandon about the army.

Also as mentioned earlier, kindly use your own social media presence to espouse such views. Thank you!

 

[R Wing]

Correct. Given the situation unfolding, posts are essentially becoming a gripe-fest with all sorts of unsubstantiated claims being thrown around with abandon about the army.

As mentioned, kindly use your own social media presence to espouse such views. Thank you!

But it's okay to criticize political leaders? Fascinating.

What's the point of a forum if you can't share your views openly, especially if they're backed by relevant argumentation?

I don't always agree with you, but you're better than this - as is this forum. Or maybe not.

My recommendation is that we avoid sacred cow-ing anyone.

 

[blain2]

But it's okay to criticize political leaders? Fascinating.

What's the point of a forum if you can't share your views openly, especially if they're backed by relevant argumentation?

I don't always agree with you, but you're better than this - as is this forum. Or maybe not.

My recommendation is that we avoid sacred cow-ing anyone.

My friend, this is why I stated that we are not going to get in the business of clarifying what is appropriate and what is not.

As stated earlier, the critique has been outright abusive. If members have very strong views, they are free to share those via their own social media presence.

My apologies in advance for deleting your posts but this is the guideline that we will stick to.

 

[R Wing]

My friend, this is why I stated that we are not going to get in the business of clarifying what is appropriate and what is not.

As stated earlier, the critique has been outright abusive. If members have very strong views, they are free to share those via their own social media presence.

My apologies in advance for deleting your posts but this is the guideline that we will stick to.

Sounds scarily like military rule! Tarnish the politicians but not the generals.

Not that democracy is much better, but may I know where this guideline comes from and who makes it?

I will, of course, be deleting my profile here soon as the entire point of a forum is to be able to voice one's opinions freely.

 

[Khanate]

Sounds scarily like military rule! Tarnish the politicians but not the generals.

Not that democracy is much better, but may I know where this guideline comes from and who makes it?

I will, of course, be deleting my profile here soon as the entire point of a forum is to be able to voice one's opinions freely.

Don't leave. Stay.

You are a valuable member and it will be a shame if your emotions got the better of you.

I avoid talking Pakistani politics here because this forum is frequented by servicemen and one must maintain decorum in such company but these are exceptional times.

Today, Imran Khan said, "I want you to NOT criticise the army (including COAS Bajwa)."

There is incredible wisdom and foresight in this statement that many young insafians don't yet realize.

The fight is against the system, not a few people.

If the system succeeds, it will forever taint itself and immortalise Imran Khan in Pakistani history. AND THAT IS THE POINT.

No political movement and ideology emerges without making history.

As for COAS Bajwa, he is a patriot and he is doing what is best for Pakistan.

I've defended COAS Bajwa on this forum, and will, again, do so.

For now, gather your mates and MARCH on the streets. It is a great time to revitalise the spirit of Pakistani nationalism.

May Allah bless our armed forces and the country.

 

[Tamerlane]

One thing about Imran Khan is that he seems happy with working under the current failed system. Although before he came to power he was constantly talking about overturning the status quo, once he became PM he seems content to maintain the same status quo. I haven't heard him demand any radical changes, like the following:

1. New constitution,
2. Presidential system,
3. 30+ provinces, this will provide better administration and break the power of the big parties.
4. Overhauling the judiciary, providing justice.
5. Banning corrupt politicians.
6. Saving Karachi from Zardari's grip

All I see Imran Khan trying to do is save his own government, or to come back to power. He might provide better leadership than the alternatives but no major improvement.

In reality, the current system has failed and any attempt to maintain the status quo is like forcing the country into perpetual corruption and poverty and ultimate failure.

At what point will the establishment decide to fix Pakistan? Aren't there enough proofs of failure? The economy is stunted. Pakistan GDP is $260 billion while Bangladesh is $360 billion. The Bangladeshi taka is 86/dollar while the Pakistani rupee is 183/dollar.

Successful countries take bold steps to improve themselves. Pakistani rulers seem to have a cowardly tendency to avoid anything risky even if it means staying dirt poor. No wonder Pakistan is one of the poorest and most backward countries in the world.

Pakistan needs to try to save Imran Khan, but saving him is still not enough. We need radical change.

 

[ghazi52]

I am ready ......... coming

 

[A1Kaid]

One thing about Imran Khan is that he seems happy with working under the current failed system. Although before he came to power he was constantly talking about overturning the status quo, once he became PM he seems content to maintain the same status quo. I haven't heard him demand any radical changes, like the following:

1. New constitution,
2. Presidential system,
3. 30+ provinces, this will provide better administration and break the power of the big parties.
4. Overhauling the judiciary, providing justice.
5. Banning corrupt politicians.
6. Saving Karachi from Zardari's grip

All I see Imran Khan trying to do is save his own government, or to come back to power. He might provide better leadership than the alternatives but no major improvement.

In reality, the current system has failed and any attempt to maintain the status quo is like forcing the country into perpetual corruption and poverty and ultimate failure.

At what point will the establishment decide to fix Pakistan? Aren't there enough proofs of failure? The economy is stunted. Pakistan GDP is $260 billion while Bangladesh is $360 billion. The Bangladeshi taka is 86/dollar while the Pakistani rupee is 183/dollar.

Successful countries take bold steps to improve themselves. Pakistani rulers seem to have a cowardly tendency to avoid anything risky even if it means staying dirt poor. No wonder Pakistan is one of the poorest and most backward countries in the world.

Pakistan needs to try to save Imran Khan, but saving him is still not enough. We need radical change.

He has admitted this has been very difficult to do in past 4 years, so I don't think he is happy with that. You can't just call for these things, it's all step by step. IK needs more time to improve the system that was built in past 65+ years.

 

[IceCold]

Once we respond militarily, be ready for Pakistan's military capability being destroyed in a significant manner

The last time Iran responded militarily to the US, was its capability destroyed? No!
Why would it be different for Pakistan? A military response to military aggression is justified under UN. After that if the US decides to declare war on Pakistan, that is another thing but then again it is easy said than done. US cannot declare war on another nuclear-armed country.

 

[blain2]

The last time Iran responded militarily to the US, was its capability destroyed? No!
Why would it be different for Pakistan? A military response to military aggression is justified under UN. After that if the US decides to declare war on Pakistan, that is another thing but then again it is easy said than done. US cannot declare war on another nuclear-armed country.

Maybe and maybe not. Did Iran shoot down a US aircraft and/or kill US military personnel? They shoot around but never kill for this very reason because of the US reaction.

What do you see going on in Ukraine/Russia? Isn't the US aiding a war against another nuclear armed country? What if the US responds by aiding Baloch nationalists etc. and possibly supporting India even further?

We have to think through the end game here. Unless we are ready like the Vietcong or the Turks in the times of Ataturk with a "come what may" attitude, there are a lot of way the US can hurt Pakistan.

Cooperation with the US/China is the way forward for the foreseeable future.

 

[R Wing]

I feel that our drawing-room discussions default to addressing sideshows (e.g., the parties, the generals, etc) and not the underlying problem, i.e., the system. The system we're seeing now is the result of 70+ years of development. It has matured...into a regressive and corrupt reality. No one wants to confront that fact because it forces us (as a society) to critically examine ourselves and admit where we (as individuals, families, tribes, ethnic sub-groups, etc) all went wrong.

Yet we Pakistanis generally don't self-reflect and accept, "my bad." I literally argued with an uncle who thought the shahadah/kalimah wasn't one of the 5 pillars. Guy replaced it with jihad. When I showed him the textual evidence, his response was, "so are you saying what I was taught in my childhood was wrong?" I'm standing there thinking, "what. the. frig." That's the thought process of our nation.

Perfectly put.

Can we please create a thread or private group message with the few of us who are able to see this reality?

Can't stand the fanboy-ism here anymore. @SQ8

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

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They are on same page / face ....

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These scums will fight one another to the death! As per the KITAP, extreme hatred goe each other is instilled into their hearts.....