COAS and DG ISI reach PM house

[RIP Pak LAW]

My mqm friends are literally cursing Khalid Maqbool on my WhatsApp group lol. To them, PTI over PPP any day. Saying only establishment can make them vote for PPP against IK. They are more in shock than pti supporters.

 

[blain2]

Disagree. PTI supporter is mostly middle and upper class.

Then you only speak of the PTI supporters in larger cities. They did not win the PTI the elections.

 

[Ssan]

Even knowing the exact date is not a big deal. Once something is known to more than very few people, it gets known widely and such things happen all the time, sometimes even in richer countries. And here we are talking about Pakistan.

I still think this is opportunism for money and gaining seats in the next elections. Those politicians, who are on shaky grounds, wouldn't mind getting a huge chunk of money, especially when their terms are almost ending.

But even if Imran Khan is toppled via NCV and some other guy is elected--how long before that person will have to face another elections?? Not long even if the current assemblies run their tenure.

In short, this is another quick money making opportunity for some politicians. Happened before in Pakistan's history.

However, by presenting this as foreign conspiracy in a convincing way, this time it is going to be different. I really don't see how the opposition parties going to benefit long term.



Of course Lahoris should be ashamed. I was giving an example. But MQM, as a block, has been doing these political blackmailing since 1988--go read today's Dawn editorial about MQM.

Okay no fair point- that they get 4 seats is too many - i agree - it’s shameful- I edited my response as well

 

[Tamerlane]

Imran Khan can't do anything, he doesn't have the numbers in parliament. That's what the problem has been for the past 3.5 years. His coalition parties are all opportunists who are/were with him because of their own self interests. They are all product of and beneficiaries of this corrupt system. None of them want to make any reforms or changes and have not let Imran Khan do what needs to be done.

This no confidence vote is unfortunate but I am hoping Imran will come back stronger and with a 2/3rd majority. If he loses he really does need to bring people put on the streets and lock the country down. Force an election. People see the wolves for who they are.

I don't think there's any point in having another election under the existing failed system. The same electables will come back, and there's no chance of PTI winning a 2/3 majority. They probably won't even get a simple majority.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” Albert Einstein

Pakistan needs major reforms, and if they don't do it then there's nothing to prevent complete failure. Economically Pakistan is a basket case anyways. At what point will the establishment come to their senses?

 

[Thinker3]

Some brief history of first regime change by US in Pakistan which is the reason behind creation of Bangladesh and our sad state of affairs today, also some insight into current situation by Orya Maqbool Jan.

 

[AgnosticIndian]

okay. after witnessing all the drama, my conclusion: all this was 4D chess by the establishment to skyrocket Imran Khan's popularity. they got the opposition good. well played.

 

[blain2]

My mqm friends are literally cursing Khalid Maqbool on my WhatsApp group lol. To them, PTI over PPP any day. Saying only establishment can make them vote for PPP against IK. They are more in shock than pti supporters.

MQM would not be told by the "Establishment" to side with PPP. MQM have to decide what they were going to get from PTI and then the PPP. They are already thinking about the next elections and all they have to show for themselves right now is a non-effective MQM reduced to sloganeering due to PPP's chokehold on Karachi. Thus the decision to bail what they see as the Titanic and take what they can from a deal with the PPP/Opposition.

MQM's case is not that of the PTI's own lotay. They were and are free to set their own path as their ideology and politics are different otherwise MQM/PTI would have merged.

In my view, all that the so-called "Establishment" has done is to take a step back from the fray.

 

[SaadH]

That's likely where the "gap" is for people. Could it be that it's mostly the middle class and upper class who are benefitting from the economy under the PTI?

The PTI isn't making in-roads with the blue-collar world, but that's where most of our actual population is. However, the system as a whole is failing most Pakistanis, if not repressing them. PTI hasn't cracked or reined this system; rather, it's working through it and, as a result, isn't dealing with the core issues but potentially continuing them.

If we live in a world where the likes of PPP or PML can always "come back" we know something's fundamentally wrong.

No blue collar person votes anywhere in the world...there is no point pandering for their vote...

MQM's blue collar vote bank was actually it's sector and unit incharge armed with TT...

 

[lightoftruth]

its not a formal meeting, diplomats document informal communications too. This is how real world is and it is very common. Imran Khan had no problem with it till 27th March, now he is getting removed so he is trying to use sentiments to win support.

He is not a sharp politician he has burned all his bridges Army ,US, Media, Judiciary etc

He is on his way out.

He just ensured further meltdown of Pakistan-US ties with naming America today in his speech, very undiplomatic/unprofessional.

 

[Kharral]

No..

A man is a man. A coward is a coward. A Munafik is a Munafik. A lion is a lion. A pig is a pig. A Muslim is a Muslim. A donkey is a donkey. A traitor is a traitor. A loser is a loser. A drone bomb is a drone bomb.. no dynamics here.

I say.. India just just take Pakistan and break it up... Just give Pakistani a house in LONDON.

After independence Indian Polity chopped its Raj Loyalist Army to size.
Where as our army chopped everything to size and took power.

 

[SaadH]

He is not a sharp politician he has burned all his bridges Army ,US, Media, Judiciary etc

He is on his way out.

He just ensured further meltdown of Pakistan-US ties with naming America today in his speech, very undiplomatic/unprofessional.

So when you Indians were accusing IK of being Army's puppet all these years as opposed to your favorite NS who was fighting against them, you were engaged in some next level psyops???

 

[blain2]

Let’s not try to white wash what it really is. Far worse has been said and is said on policy matters. Here the point was to let the regime change happen or else.

So now a new precedence is being set that Pakistan regime change is a matter of few million dollars in funding and a threat at an under secretary level.

Banana republics are better than this.

This is not whitewashing. Let's realize that throughout the 90s and early 2000's, the USG support was sought by each inbound government. We set the precedence of obeisance with the Americans and it continues with mixed results now.

If the threat did come, the assistant secretary was just the mouthpiece. The POTUS would not threaten Pakistan directly so calling out the position of the US official is immaterial. Our sensitivities would be hurt the same whether it is this secretary or the POTUS saying the same to Pakistan.

 

[Goenitz]

He just ensured further meltdown of Pakistan-US ties with naming America today in his speech, very undiplomatic/unprofessional.

Somewhat true as Biden as US extablishment person with deep alignment with Pentagon. However, US have many lobbies and stance changes there over night. Like, when Trump was in power, US was in good terms with Putin.

 

[PakLeader]

Yea, but only if the hospitals are serviceably good and/or there's no excessive wait time.

Unfortunately, the corrupt system leaves our hospitals (and other infrastructure) in poor condition. The federal government can promise free education, but what good is it if Sindh gov't (PPP) gets its hands on the money? Likewise, what good is a Sehat card if PML-N doesn't fund and maintain hospitals and clinics.

We can keep saying, "well stop voting for PPP and PML-N," but that's the problem. The system ensures that these PPP, PML, MQM, etc guys can stay and keep coming back regardless of their immorality and corruption. In fact, we could have 10-15 years of great government (think 1960s-style), but the system always keeps a Bhutto around to basically undo all of the good work prior.

We're in a situation where our critical institutions are literally stopping our country from progressing. Forget PTI. I don't think any good political party or government will be able to do any permanent good in our country unless they fundamentally change the system.

Agreed...the whole system needs to go. Just need to find someone with the courage and balls to change the system

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

MQM would not be told by the "Establishment" to side with PPP. MQM have to decide what they were going to get from PTI and then the PPP. They are already thinking about the next elections and all they have to show for themselves right now is a non-effective MQM reduced to sloganeering due to PPP's chokehold on Karachi. Thus the decision to bail what they see as the Titanic and take what they can from a deal with the PPP/Opposition.

MQM's case is not that of the PTI's own lotay. They were and are free to set their own path as their ideology and politics are different otherwise MQM/PTI would have merged.

In my view, all that the so-called "Establishment" has done is to take a step back from the fray.

Mqm are still in a search for the identity after Altaf exit. Their politics has been anti Sindhi always but now siding with Sindhis against their own cousins (PTI - Urdu speaking) they have betrayed entire mahajir community actually. Urdu speaking community was already fedup with mqm hence they will not take this lightly.