Churches burnt in India

[Flintlock]

Here is the encyclopedia britannica for good measure:

Brahmagupta --  Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Brahmagupta was an orthodox Hindu, and his religious views, particularly the Hindu yuga system of measuring the ages of mankind, influenced his work. He severely criticized…

 

[Vinod2070]

Not everything Churchill said was wrong. What he said was sometimes correct, sometimes not, but in this case it is a fact what he said is correct..that India was not a country before 1947.

Of course, one can always pick and choose what one likes. But Churchill is not an unbiased person to issue opinions on India. He was actually quite pathetic trying to hold on to India while begging the USA to help him in WW-II. The USA refused to pull his chestnuts out of the fire. He talked of freedom and democracy for Europe while denying it to the people of India. He is an SOB for me.

Now, if you look at the globe today, there are very few countries which were in the same boundaries or had the same name even a couple of centuries back.

One thing that runs thorugh India is the idea of a common heritage of civilization. So people living under different kings or sultans still felt they had a common cultural heritage. This was a common theme from Kashmir to Kanyakumari and east to west.

As for the teaching of pre-Islamic history, or lack of it - where did you get that from. It's being taught now, three chapters of it.

MMA against teaching pre-Islamic history in schools

Good for you, if you have finally recognized that there was a civilization before the barbarian attacks on India and it was not all Jahiliyah. In fact if you see, the regions of Gandhara were such advanced centres of learning in the whole world. Something which was destroyed by the incoming barbarians. See their condition now.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Do you know what musharaf have in his heart against India?.

I very much doubt you know any damn thing about him!

Donot pose like you donot know what Hindu extremism has been doing in India since long. Criticism on Hindu thinking is one thing but not puting eyes and ears on the incidents which are happening against christians is another.

You should be man enough to admit to the fact that what is happening is due to indian hatered for other minorities and nothing else!

All the facts given by all the links are lies?.

What other facts you need?.

Me a Man.... and admit!

Your question whether I know what Muahrraf has in his mind about India is a very infantile question.

I know as much as possibly any other person who has not met him, but has observed his intent.

I am sure you are not a buddy of his to know any more than me.

Therefore, you posing and posturing is most hilarious.

In so far as terrorism in India is concerned, I am well aware of the foreign sponsored one since I have intimate experience in handling this issue. However, as far as "Hindu terrorism" is concerned, suffice it to say, that as far as the Christian community is concerned, I have more knowledge than you. You can guess why. So, spare me your crocodile tears.

Your dislike for anything India has been pockmarked this forum and so what you have to say is totally immaterial.

But remember, Hate is too great a burden to bear. It injures the hater more than it injures the hated.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Implying Something,.......... VINOD?.

Your favourite line?

 

[Vinod2070]

But remember, Hate is too great a burden to bear. It injures the hater more than it injures the hated.

Hats off to this. Indeed a topical advice for some here.

 

[roadrunner]

This is hopefully the last post on this topic in this thread. I would urge you to stop lying Stealth Assasin.

Brahmagupta (c. A.D. 598-c. 665)

Your link - "A Hindu astronomer and mathematician who became the head of the observatory at Ujjain "

Nowhere does it say where he was born in your link, just that he worked in Uijjain here.

BRAHMAGUPTA

Your link - "Astrónomo y matemático indio. Es, sin duda, el mayor matemático, de la antigua civilización india. Desarrolló su actividad en el noroeste de la India y resumió sus conocimientos astronómicos en un libro escrito en el año 628, en el que rechazaba la rotación de la tierra. El rasgo más importante de esta obra es la aplicación de métodos algebraicos a los problemas astronómicos. Los matemáticos indios rindieron un gran servicio al mundo, ya que alguno de ellos, posiblemente Brahmagupta ideó el concepto y el símbolo "cero". "

This link is in Spanish which you obviously cannot read. It says nothing about where he was born, just refers to "India" which at the time was the whole of Pakistan for the main part.

Brahmagupta's Theorem

This link does not even say anything about where he was born or where he worked.

http://www.college.hmco.com/mathematics/alexander/elementary_geometry/3e/students/brahma.html[/URL]

This link also does not say anything about where he was born or where he worked. Quote it me exactly what it says. It just makes you seem like a stealing leech otherwise.

A History of Geometrical Methods - Google Book Search

This link also does not say anything about where he was born or where he worked. Quote it me exactly what it says.

Matemáticas Educativas - www.edumat.net

Your link - "Brahmagupta vive entre los años 598 y 665 en la India central"
Translation - Brahmagupta lived between the years 598 and 665 in central India.

We know this to be incorrect. Brahmagupta lived in the Northwest fringe of modern India, definitely not central India. A poor link from a weak non-academic site.

Medieval Mathematicians in India

Your link - Brahmagupta was born in 598 in Rajasthan, in northwest India. He wrote his masterpiece, Brahmasphuta Siddhanta, which means The Opening of the Universe, in 628.

This is your only link so far which says that Brahmagupta was born in Rajasthan, Northwest India. We know this is wrong, though he might have worked there. But this is your only link.

Brahmagupta

Your link - "Nasceu em 598, tendo vivido e trabalhado em Ujjain"
Translation - Born in 598, he had lived and worked in Ujjain.

Again, this does not tell of where he was born, just that he lived and worked in Uijjan.

Conclusion - Out of your EIGHT links, only ONE link says what you are saying. This is technically known as misinformation, or lying

Now let's examine this link more closely.

Medieval Mathematicians in India

Two sources are given for Brahmagupta.
____________________________
First source: Brahmagupta

Where does it say where he was born in this article? NOWHERE

_____________________________

Second source: Brahmagupta biography

Acceptable source.. St Andrew's University..What does it say..

"Born: 598 in (possibly) Ujjain, India"

______________________________

Conclusion: You have one academic source in your list of EIGHT links that says Brahmagupta was POSSIBLY born in Uijjain, India.
______________________________


I will now beat that with just ONE link from Strasbourg University!

Brahmagupta

"Né en 598 au nord-ouest de l’Inde, à Multan, aujourd’hui au Pakistan"
Translation: "Born in 598 in Northwest India, in Multan, today in Pakistan."

Here is another reference for you showing he was a Multani as stated by CORNELL UNIVERSITY, USA!

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/math/pdf/0203/0203289v2.pdf

"“Exponentiation and Euler measure,” is reminiscent of an interesting
“mistake” made by Brahmagupta of Multan in his 6th century treatise
Brahmasphutasiddantha."

I can quote more credible neutral sources if you like.

 

[roadrunner]

On the subject of Brahmagupta's religion, I would say it is highly unlikely he was Hindu. More than likely he was a Buddhist (since that was the predominant religion in Multan at the time and there were many Buddhist "Gupta" names there). Saying he was Hindu is just an assumption by some poorly researched articles.

Once again, I have quoted two credible, neutral universities, one Strasbourg University, the other Cornell university, that say Brahmangupta was a Multani. Are these universities both wrong, and you right?

 

[Vinod2070]

And his being Hindu or Buddhist makes a difference. How?

And of course you are not giving any proof of his religion either. Not that it makes any difference.

And if he was born in Multan and worked in Ujjain, what does it point to? At least not that Multan looked towards Persia or Arabia. Or he would have gone and worked there.

 

[Flintlock]

This is hopefully the last post on this topic in this thread. I would urge you to stop lying Stealth Assasin.

Rest assured, this is not the last post on the topic.

Your link - "A Hindu astronomer and mathematician who became the head of the observatory at Ujjain "

Nowhere does it say where he was born in your link, just that he worked in Uijjain

It says that he was a Hindu who lived and worked in Ujjain. Do you dispute that?

Your link - "Astrónomo y matemático indio. Es, sin duda, el mayor matemático, de la antigua civilización india. Desarrolló su actividad en el noroeste de la India y resumió sus conocimientos astronómicos en un libro escrito en el año 628, en el que rechazaba la rotación de la tierra. El rasgo más importante de esta obra es la aplicación de métodos algebraicos a los problemas astronómicos. Los matemáticos indios rindieron un gran servicio al mundo, ya que alguno de ellos, posiblemente Brahmagupta ideó el concepto y el símbolo "cero". "

It ways he was born in India. It refers to modern india and not ancient.

This link does not even say anything about where he was born or where he worked.

I believe it says that he was a hindu.

This link also does not even say anything about where he was born or where he worked. Try reading it. Where does it say Brahmagupta was born in this link?

Again, it says that he was a hindu I believe.

Your link - "Brahmagupta vive entre los años 598 y 665 en la India central"
Translation - Brahmagupta lived between the years 598 and 665 in central India.

We know this to be incorrect. Brahmagupta lived in the Northwest fringe of modern India, definitely not central India. A poor link from a weak non-academic site.

Central india probably refers to Ujjain, where he famously worked with other Hindu astromers.

Your link - Brahmagupta was born in 598 in Rajasthan, in northwest India. He wrote his masterpiece, Brahmasphuta Siddhanta, which means The Opening of the Universe, in 628.

This is your only link so far which says that Brahmagupta was born in Rajasthan, Northwest India. We know this is wrong, though he might have worked there. But this is your only link.

You want more links? I can get you more links. Better ones. For now, this seems credible enough doesn't it?

Your link - "Nasceu em 598, tendo vivido e trabalhado em Ujjain"
Translation - Born in 598, he had lived and worked in Ujjain.

Again, this does not tell of where he was born, just that he lived and worked in Uijjan.

He worked in Ujjain. Hence, he was Indian. A Russian scientist working in the US is American, not Russian.

Conclusion - Out of your EIGHT links, only ONE link says what you are saying. This is technically known as misinformation, or lying

OH please, there is no need to be so dramatic.

Now let's examine this link more closely.

Medieval Mathematicians in India

Clearly says that he was born in Rajasthan.

____________________________
First source: Brahmagupta

Where does it say where he was born in this article? NOWHERE

It says he was born in NW India. Isn't that enough? He worked in Rajasthan anyways....so that is clear enough.

A History of Geometrical Methods - Google Book Search

I says he was a Hindu. Thats all.

Second source: Brahmagupta biography

Acceptable source.. St Andrew's University..What does it say..

"Born: 598 in (possibly) Ujjain, India"

I will now beat that with just ONE link from Strasbourg University!

Brahmagupta

"Né en 598 au nord-ouest de l’Inde, à Multan, aujourd’hui au Pakistan"
Translation: "Born in 598 in Northwest India, in Multan, today in Pakistan."


Here is another reference for you showing he was born in Multan from CORNELL UNIVERSITY, USA!

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/math/pdf/0203/0203289v2.pdf

"“Exponentiation and Euler measure,” is reminiscent of an interesting
“mistake” made by Brahmagupta of Multan in his 6th century treatise
Brahmasphutasiddantha."

I can quote more credible neutral sources if you like.

Alrite, here are some more links:

Elementary Number Theory with ... - Google Book Search
(says that he was born in Bhillamala and worked in Ujjain)

The Treasury of Mathematics: A ... - Google Book Search
(Says that he worked in Ujjain)

Mathematics in Society and History ... - Google Book Search
(Says that he worked at Ujjain)

Mathematics and Its History - Google Book Search
(Says that he was the teacher from Bhillamala)

http://www.math.utah.edu/~treiberg/isoperim/isop.pdf
(Says that he was from Ujjain)

Sherlock Holmes in Babylon and Other ... - Google Book Search
(says Brahmagupta of Bhillamala)

I can go on posting more links, but I'm bored now...

 

[Flintlock]

And his being Hindu or Buddhist makes a difference. How?

And of course you are not giving any proof of his religion either. Not that it makes any difference.

And if he was born in Multan and worked in Ujjain, what does it point to? At least not that Multan looked towards Persia or Arabia. Or he would have gone and worked there.

Very true. Good point Vinod.

In any case, even if he was, by some slim chance, born in Multan, the fact that
he traveled east means that his own birthplace did not allow him to commence his studies. Most of these ancient mathematicians worked in some established school of mathematics/astronomy. Brahmagupta went to study at Ujjain, as it was already an established center of astronomy. That makes him an Indian astronomer.

Of course, most sources indicate that Brahmagupta was born in Bhillamala and worked in Ujjain, barring a couple which say that he was born in Multan.

Also, it is undisputed that he was a Hindu. I have yet to find a link which describes him as buddhist.

Another point is that Brahmagupta would be nowhere without the earlier work of Aryabhata, who was from Kerela or Patna.

 

[Vinod2070]

The attempts to separate the history of the parts now comprising the two countries are pathetic for the most part. May not be so for the future though.

It was never a factor when the partition happened, else we won't have had the sectarian violence and the massive migrations and Bangladesh won't be part of Pakistan at partition.

It is an after thought that one has started hearing for the last few years. I don't know why this new justification is required. Is the old justification of Indian Muslims requiring a separate homeland no longer considered enough?

And don't most Pakistanis consider themselves of non-Indian origin (as in of Arab, Central Asian, Afghan or Persian stock). I read an article by a Pakistani writer that there are more Qureshis (supposedly Arab origin) in Pakistan than there are Arabs!

Can they still lay claim to the history of the land before they invaded it and claim that history exclusively!

 

[Flintlock]

The attempts to separate the history of the parts now comprising the two countries are pathetic for the most part. May not be so for the future though.

I agree, and I have always contended that India and Pakistan have a shared heritage and history.

Brahmagupta obviously didn't consider himself Indian or Pakistani, but was only concerned about his work.

However, Pakistanis are loathe to be associated with India, and try find as many reasons as possible to prove that Pakistan was always a separate entity from India.

It was never a factor when the partition happened, else we won't have had the sectarian violence and the massive migrations and Bangladesh won't be part of Pakistan at partition.

Very true. The british simply drew the line based on percentage of muslims and nothing else. They didn't try to separate the country on the basis of ancient history.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The attempts to separate the history of the parts now comprising the two countries are pathetic for the most part. May not be so for the future though.

It was never a factor when the partition happened, else we won't have had the sectarian violence and the massive migrations and Bangladesh won't be part of Pakistan at partition.

It is an after thought that one has started hearing for the last few years. I don't know why this new justification is required. Is the old justification of Indian Muslims requiring a separate homeland no longer considered enough?

And don't most Pakistanis consider themselves of non-Indian origin (as in of Arab, Central Asian, Afghan or Persian stock). I read an article by a Pakistani writer that there are more Qureshis (supposedly Arab origin) in Pakistan than there are Arabs!

Can they still lay claim to the history of the land before they invaded it and claim it exclusively!

If the attempt to seperate the history of the two is to be avoided, then the Indians have to start that process first and refer to subcontinental history as "South Asian history". What Pakistanis are doing, in the presence of labeling almost everything from the subcontinent "Indian", is pointing out that a tremendous amount of history is the history of the civilizations and peoples that were the ancestors of Pakistanis, and labeling it Pakistani to differentiate from the colloquial use of "India" referring to "modern India".

A lot of people here obviously do not agree with the points made by the authors you are referring to. So please, the discussion should be conducted on the basis of what the Pakistanis here are arguing, not some half literate Mullah. RR has already pointed out that the GoP has included pre-Islamic Pakistani history in its syllabi, despite protestations from the Mullah crowd.

 

[Vinod2070]

Very true. Good point Vinod.

In any case, even if he was, by some slim chance, born in Multan, the fact that
he traveled east means that his own birthplace did not allow him to commence his studies. Most of these ancient mathematicians worked in some established school of mathematics/astronomy. Brahmagupta went to study at Ujjain, as it was already an established center of astronomy. That makes him an Indian astronomer.

Of course, most sources indicate that Brahmagupta was born in Bhillamala and worked in Ujjain, barring a couple which say that he was born in Multan.

Also, it is undisputed that he was a Hindu. I have yet to find a link which describes him as buddhist.

Another point is that Brahmagupta would be nowhere without the earlier work of Aryabhata, who was from Kerela or Patna.

I am sure you are right here. The point is that the existence of Pakistan after 14th August 1947 is a reality.

The claim of a separate history or nation in the areas now comprising Pakistan is not.

Our histories, culture and civilization are too much interwined. The logic of it not being under a single command for the most part does not wash as if that was a factor, most modern countries today won't exist as they do now. Even the parts comprising Pakistan never existed as a united country for the most part before 1947 as much as it is true for the parts comprising modern India.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Very true. Good point Vinod.

In any case, even if he was, by some slim chance, born in Multan, the fact that
he traveled east means that his own birthplace did not allow him to commence his studies. Most of these ancient mathematicians worked in some established school of mathematics/astronomy. Brahmagupta went to study at Ujjain, as it was already an established center of astronomy. That makes him an Indian astronomer.

Of course, most sources indicate that Brahmagupta was born in Bhillamala and worked in Ujjain, barring a couple which say that he was born in Multan.

Also, it is undisputed that he was a Hindu. I have yet to find a link which describes him as buddhist.

Another point is that Brahmagupta would be nowhere without the earlier work of Aryabhata, who was from Kerela or Patna.

And why does India take so much pride in the achievements of "Indians" who have worked and lived abroad, and even changed citizenship? Why are they still "Indian"? Have their accomplishments not occurred due to the work by non-Indians that have come before them? They didn't just land in the US and encase themselves in a cocoon. As much as Aryabhata may have done much before Brahmagupta, there were certainly non-Indians who did much before the "Indian" achievers overseas. If Bose can be eulogized as an Indian, then by the same logic Brahmagupta is a part of Pakistani history, if he was born in Multan. You cannot have it both ways.

Or, these personalities are a part of "South Asian" history.