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Christopher Hitchens Goes Nuclear On Pakistan

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When the United States found out that Pakistan had been providing a safe haven to Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad (and let's not pretend that they didn't provide OBL safe haven) the Great Fiction came undone.
The Great Fiction was that Pakistan is an ally of the United States. The Great Fiction was that US "engagement" with Pakistan is a functional policy. The Great Fiction was that Pakistan is anything but a failed state with nuclear weapons.
Pakistan (as noted in Grace Wyler's excellent interview with CFR's Daniel Markey) is expanding its nuclear arsenal rapidly. The fear is that one of those weapons will end up in the hands of terrorist organizations, which will in turn detonate one of those weapons in London or Berlin or Washington or New York.
The argument for continuing the US policy of "engagement" with Pakistan basically boils down to this: We have to, so we can keep an eye on the nukes. Christopher Hitchens, in an impassioned piece for Vanity Fair, argues that to continue the policy of engagement with Pakistan is delusional, shameful and ultimately self-defeating. He writes:
If we ever ceased to swallow our pride, so I am incessantly told in Washington, then the Pakistani oligarchy might behave even more abysmally than it already does, and the situation deteriorate even further. This stale and superficial argument ignores the awful historical fact that, each time the Pakistani leadership did get worse, or behave worse, it was handsomely rewarded by the United States. We have been the enablers of every stage of that wretched state’s counter-evolution, to the point where it is a serious regional menace and an undisguised ally of our worst enemy, as well as the sworn enemy of some of our best allies. How could it be “worse” if we shifted our alliance and instead embraced India, our only rival in scale as a multi-ethnic and multi-religious democracy, and a nation that contains nearly as many Muslims as Pakistan? How could it be “worse” if we listened to the brave Afghans, like their former intelligence chief Amrullah Saleh, who have been telling us for years that we are fighting the war in the wrong country?
If we continue to deny or avoid this inescapable fact, then we really are dishonoring, as well as further endangering, our exemplary young volunteers. Why was the raid on Abbottabad so rightly called “daring”? Because it had to be conducted under the radar of the Pakistani Air Force, which “scrambled” its jets and would have brought the Black Hawks down if it could. That this is true is bad enough in all conscience. That we should still be submitting ourselves to lectures and admonitions from General Kayani is beyond shameful.


Read more: Pakistan: a failed and treacherous state
 
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The feeling is mutual. They cant trust us and we cant trust them. If our handful of kiloton nukes make them jumpy why should we not bother about their gigaton nukes? They say somrbkdy from within Pakistan will just pick up a nuclear warhead as a packet of crisps and somehow carry it to newyork and explode.It is possible if terrorists have super human powers and if american security forces are a bunch of sleepy retards,otherwise farfetched.
Its not that they dont trust us,the problem is that after 9\11 tbey cant trust their own security forces and lost confidence.If they could trust their own inland security tbey would be confident that no miscreant can carry a big heavy nuke all the way 10000 miles away from pakistan to usa and wont get caught.
Their security forces need to win public confidence which they lost on.9\11.Until then those fiction writers turned journalists will keep coming up with tall tales like this one.
 
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The feeling is mutual. They cant trust us and we cant trust them. If our handful of kiloton nukes make them jumpy why should we not bother about their gigaton nukes? They say somrbkdy from within Pakistan will just pick up a nuclear warhead as a packet of crisps and somehow carry it to newyork and explode.It is possible if terrorists have super human powers and if american security forces are a bunch of sleepy retards,otherwise farfetched.
Its not that they dont trust us,the problem is that after 9\11 tbey cant trust their own security forces and lost confidence.If they could trust their own inland security tbey would be confident that no miscreant can carry a big heavy nuke all the way 10000 miles away from pakistan to usa and wont get caught.
Their security forces need to win public confidence which they lost on.9\11.Until then those fiction writers turned journalists will keep coming up with tall tales like this one.

US feeling jumpy about pakistani nukes is equivalent to pakistan being jumpy about afgani nukes. No, you should not bother about their gigantic nukes. :)
You should be more concerned about a rouge or unstable country getting even sub kiloton nukes.

US on the other hand has less to worry about gigaton nukes of russia.
 
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You should not wish to be hated by a country who is feeding you..

In this mutual feeling of hate, its Pakistan who will suffer and not USA

Bad comparison.Afghanistan is next doors and USA is far away.It will be easier to transfer nuke from across the border than ship it 10,000 miles away.
My advice. look at the wolrld map.

*oh drat replied to wrong comment* :*
 
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Bad comparison.Afghanistan is next doors and USA is far away.It will be easier to transfer nuke from across the border than ship it 10,000 miles away.
My advice. look at the wolrld map.

*oh drat replied to wrong comment* :*
I gave afganistan example as it is an unstable country like yours. Imagine another hostile unstable country if afganistan is too near to you.
The fear of a nuclear device smuggled in is real, when you see how people are getting smuggled across border in US and uk.
Distance is no longer an issue. Fortress America is a myth.
 
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Instead of a report on a story, why not the story itself?

christopher-hitchens.jpg
...Here is a society where rape is not a crime. It is a punishment. Women can be sentenced to be raped, by tribal and religious kangaroo courts, if even a rumor of their immodesty brings shame on their menfolk. In such an obscenely distorted context, the counterpart term to shame—which is the noble word “honor”—becomes most commonly associated with the word “killing.” Moral courage consists of the willingness to butcher your own daughter.

If the most elemental of human instincts becomes warped in this bizarre manner, other morbid symptoms will disclose themselves as well. Thus, President Asif Ali Zardari cringes daily...A man so lacking in pride—indeed lacking in manliness—will seek desperately to compensate in other ways...

There’s absolutely no mystery to the “Why do they hate us?” question, at least as it arises in Pakistan. They hate us because they owe us, and are dependent upon us. The two main symbols of Pakistan’s pride—its army and its nuclear program—are wholly parasitic on American indulgence and patronage. But, as I wrote for Vanity Fair in late 2001, in a long report from this degraded country, that army and those nukes are intended to be reserved for war against the neighboring democracy of India. Our bought-and-paid-for pretense that they have any other true purpose has led to a rancid, resentful official hypocrisy, and to a state policy of revenge, large and petty, on the big, rich, dumb Americans who foot the bill. If Pakistan were a character, it would resemble the one described by Alexander Pope in his Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot:

Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike.
Just hint a fault, and hesitate dislike:
Alike reserved to blame, or to commend,
A timorous foe, and a suspicious friend …
So well-bred Spaniels civilly delight
In mumbling of the game they dare not bite.

...Bernard-Henri Lévy once even produced a damning time line showing that every Pakistani “capture” of a wanted jihadist had occurred the week immediately preceding a vote in Congress on subventions to the government in Islamabad. But not even I was cynical enough to believe that Osama bin Laden himself would be given a villa in a Pakistani garrison town on Islamabad’s periphery...

..if Pakistan were a person, he (and it would have to be a he) would have to be completely humorless, paranoid, insecure, eager to take offense, and suffering from self-righteousness, self-pity, and self-hatred. That last triptych of vices is intimately connected. The self-righteousness comes from the claim to represent a religion: the very name “Pakistan” is an acronym of Punjab, Afghanistan, Kashmir, and so forth, the resulting word in the Urdu language meaning “Land of the Pure.” The self-pity derives from the sad fact that the country has almost nothing else to be proud of: virtually barren of achievements and historically based on the amputation and mutilation of India in 1947 and its own self-mutilation in Bangladesh. The self-hatred is the consequence of being pathetically, permanently mendicant: an abject begging-bowl country that is nonetheless run by a super-rich and hyper-corrupt Punjabi elite. As for paranoia: This not so hypothetical Pakistani would also be a hardened anti-Semite, moaning with pleasure at the butchery of Daniel Pearl and addicted to blaming his self-inflicted woes on the all-powerful Jews...
 
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..if Pakistan were a person, he (and it would have to be a he) would have to be completely humorless, paranoid, insecure, eager to take offense, and suffering from self-righteousness, self-pity, and self-hatred. That last triptych of vices is intimately connected. The self-righteousness comes from the claim to represent a religion: the very name “Pakistan” is an acronym of Punjab, Afghanistan, Kashmir, and so forth, the resulting word in the Urdu language meaning “Land of the Pure.” The self-pity derives from the sad fact that the country has almost nothing else to be proud of: virtually barren of achievements and historically based on the amputation and mutilation of India in 1947 and its own self-mutilation in Bangladesh. The self-hatred is the consequence of being pathetically, permanently mendicant: an abject begging-bowl country that is nonetheless run by a super-rich and hyper-corrupt Punjabi elite. As for paranoia: This not so hypothetical Pakistani would also be a hardened anti-Semite, moaning with pleasure at the butchery of Daniel Pearl and addicted to blaming his self-inflicted woes on the all-powerful Jews...
[/FONT][/SIZE]
Hitchens is pissed. Really, really, really pissed.
 
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Instead of a report on a story, why not the story itself?

christopher-hitchens.jpg
...Here is a society where rape is not a crime. It is a punishment. Women can be sentenced to be raped, by tribal and religious kangaroo courts, if even a rumor of their immodesty brings shame on their menfolk. In such an obscenely distorted context, the counterpart term to shame—which is the noble word “honor”—becomes most commonly associated with the word “killing.” Moral courage consists of the willingness to butcher your own daughter.

If the most elemental of human instincts becomes warped in this bizarre manner, other morbid symptoms will disclose themselves as well. Thus, President Asif Ali Zardari cringes daily...A man so lacking in pride—indeed lacking in manliness—will seek desperately to compensate in other ways...

There’s absolutely no mystery to the “Why do they hate us?” question, at least as it arises in Pakistan. They hate us because they owe us, and are dependent upon us. The two main symbols of Pakistan’s pride—its army and its nuclear program—are wholly parasitic on American indulgence and patronage. But, as I wrote for Vanity Fair in late 2001, in a long report from this degraded country, that army and those nukes are intended to be reserved for war against the neighboring democracy of India. Our bought-and-paid-for pretense that they have any other true purpose has led to a rancid, resentful official hypocrisy, and to a state policy of revenge, large and petty, on the big, rich, dumb Americans who foot the bill. If Pakistan were a character, it would resemble the one described by Alexander Pope in his Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot:

Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike.
Just hint a fault, and hesitate dislike:
Alike reserved to blame, or to commend,
A timorous foe, and a suspicious friend …
So well-bred Spaniels civilly delight
In mumbling of the game they dare not bite.

...Bernard-Henri Lévy once even produced a damning time line showing that every Pakistani “capture” of a wanted jihadist had occurred the week immediately preceding a vote in Congress on subventions to the government in Islamabad. But not even I was cynical enough to believe that Osama bin Laden himself would be given a villa in a Pakistani garrison town on Islamabad’s periphery...

..if Pakistan were a person, he (and it would have to be a he) would have to be completely humorless, paranoid, insecure, eager to take offense, and suffering from self-righteousness, self-pity, and self-hatred. That last triptych of vices is intimately connected. The self-righteousness comes from the claim to represent a religion: the very name “Pakistan” is an acronym of Punjab, Afghanistan, Kashmir, and so forth, the resulting word in the Urdu language meaning “Land of the Pure.” The self-pity derives from the sad fact that the country has almost nothing else to be proud of: virtually barren of achievements and historically based on the amputation and mutilation of India in 1947 and its own self-mutilation in Bangladesh. The self-hatred is the consequence of being pathetically, permanently mendicant: an abject begging-bowl country that is nonetheless run by a super-rich and hyper-corrupt Punjabi elite. As for paranoia: This not so hypothetical Pakistani would also be a hardened anti-Semite, moaning with pleasure at the butchery of Daniel Pearl and addicted to blaming his self-inflicted woes on the all-powerful Jews...

Just reading a few sentences of the article made me get up from sleep and I came back to read it again. This is a 20 KT H Bomb of an article. This article is so potent that someone in this forum will just go mad and shoot himself.
 
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A scathing view of Pakistan but not justly so. The majority of Pakistanis struggle to make ends meet every day. The interests of these people is not represented in the government. The government is dominated by the land owning elite and this has been the way since the inception of Pakistan. These land owners make sure to stuff any measures that would empower the people and education is a big threat to them. The honour killing Hitchens speaks of occurs in only a small sliver of the country and illiteracy is the main reason behind it.
As for calling Pakistan an untrustworthy ally , well I find that comment nauseating. Pakistan has lost more in this war than all the allied losses combined. The government has gone against the popular sentiment , forgoing the safety and well being of the people. Our economy is in tatters and the state of security of the common person is non-existent. We would have been much better off without this war. We have lost so much more than we have gained
 
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To all Pakistani friends here:

Guys, I know you are in a tough situation and all that and that you're not in a pleasant mood these days. Nobody in your situation will be. But there is no point of hating Americans because whatever has brought you into this has been also because of your own rulers who complied with every whim of US just to watch us over. And ultimately see who's the source of trouble for you. Neither US nor India. I say nor India because your government hasn't been able to produce a single evidence in front of any international body to prove any terror involvement of ours in Pakistan. But that is a different debate.

Now coming to the point. On April 31, if I had asked you people that there will be an attack on Pakistan's navy base, you'd have laughed and called me a paranoid Indian. If last year I had told you that your GHQ would be overtaken by militants, you'd have again said the same. If at the same time I had said that your military academy will see bomb blasts, you will call me an ill-wisher of Pakistan. If I had told you that US will raid into Pakistan, get rid of their threats and leave without your soldiers doing anything you'd say it is my wet dream.

But ALL the above points actually happened. Military installations, considered the most secure in any country have become a recurring target for militants. This is a serious situation people. The militants have only left one possibility to everyone's imagination and have done everything that most Pakistani members denied in the past: nukes.

None of us want this to happen both you and I know. They won't go after Shaheens and Ghauris. They will go after the radioactive fuels to make a crude bomb. And more than USA it is India that is in danger. USA has strong safeguards and can detect a threat compared to our lax system which is better than before but still nowhere close to USA and Israel. The last thing you want is something to trigger something so terrible as nuclear war just because of these people.

The US has strategic objectives, but we have genuine concerns.
 
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To all Pakistani friends here:

Guys, I know you are in a tough situation and all that and that you're not in a pleasant mood these days. Nobody in your situation will be. But there is no point of hating Americans because whatever has brought you into this has been also because of your own rulers who complied with every whim of US just to watch us over. And ultimately see who's the source of trouble for you. Neither US nor India. I say nor India because your government hasn't been able to produce a single evidence in front of any international body to prove any terror involvement of ours in Pakistan. But that is a different debate.

Now coming to the point. On April 31, if I had asked you people that there will be an attack on Pakistan's navy base, you'd have laughed and called me a paranoid Indian. If last year I had told you that your GHQ would be overtaken by militants, you'd have again said the same. If at the same time I had said that your military academy will see bomb blasts, you will call me an ill-wisher of Pakistan. If I had told you that US will raid into Pakistan, get rid of their threats and leave without your soldiers doing anything you'd say it is my wet dream.

But ALL the above points actually happened. Military installations, considered the most secure in any country have become a recurring target for militants. This is a serious situation people. The militants have only left one possibility to everyone's imagination and have done everything that most Pakistani members denied in the past: nukes.

None of us want this to happen both you and I know. They won't go after Shaheens and Ghauris. They will go after the radioactive fuels to make a crude bomb. And more than USA it is India that is in danger. USA has strong safeguards and can detect a threat compared to our lax system which is better than before but still nowhere close to USA and Israel. The last thing you want is something to trigger something so terrible as nuclear war just because of these people.

The US has strategic objectives, but we have genuine concerns.

We are at war, and we have qualified people looking to resolve all matters, Mr Hitchens is just another perennially drunk neo-con SOB - and regarding india she is our eternal enemy.
 
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Just a few thoughts....

Imagine a bearded man stood or sat down and shouting similar hate against USA? Pointing out how crippled their society is,how many men and women get raped on the streets of newyork,blacks and white gangs killing each other,most of the young generation into drug abuse,alcohol related violence .Extra marital sex and many Americans dont even know who their dad was...Teenage/Underage sex and pregnancies on the rise..Girls giving birth at 14 and for that reason an increased number of children being abused and tortured by their own parents.
Such a man will be called angry Mullah,branded anti western,called terrorist,al qaeda and they will send drones and CIA agents to kill him..
But its ok for an American to spew whatever poison he wants about us from his high chair,and the irony is that he never been to Pakistan.. and we are supposed to hang our heads in shame?
Double standards.init?
 
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And the writer is a self hating frustrated pathetic excuse for a human being........... And so are his followers.
 
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This guy is just a dumb b***h, all he does is talk BS about Pakistan. Of course he's an Indian trolls dream as we can see with the the thread starter and some of the indians in this thread
 
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