CHINESE VIEW: Chinese and Indian Fighter Jets Face Off Amid Regional Turf War

[Guynextdoor2]

offcourse you are not convinced, you never will be. the fact that one is flying high and serving and another does not leave the drawing board is for the world to see. regarding AESA, there are options for it including two from china and one from italy. the third block will feature an AESA say if all goes as planned. there have been some surprising additions to blk one and two which no one saw coming. so i anticipate a few surprises for coming blocks as well.


NRIET is promoting one radar that is similar to the one fitted toj-10C.

Another one marketed by NAV technologies that is quite similar to israeli elta 2052 in design and performance.


Chinese Radar Strongly Resembles Israeli Product

third is the italian version of selex vixen series customized for jf-17, already offered by selex few years ago.

This isn't about 'Indians are butthurt about every pak development'. The visible proof of complex projects- money, lots of manpower, tech and in the case of the subcontinent, lots of pain. You don't have any of it, it's too good to be true. As far as AESA is concerned you're once again referrint o intent. You're comparing a system that's incorporating a radome for AESA with one where there is only intent? As @Kachra Seth has referred to, even FBW is not fully developed in JF 17. How do you think you get a fighter that's so cheap?

Chines don't do that, they have a pretty good nerve and command system, and everyone knows what they need to do and they do it diligently. We do understand where your assumption come from though.

where does that assumption come from? according to economics having a single supplier makes the supplier slack. We know that to be true...just look at HAL and you'll know what we're referring to.

 

[Dungeness]

where does that assumption come from? according to economics having a single supplier makes the supplier slack. We know that to be true...just look at HAL and you'll know what we're referring to.

This is exactly what I am talking about!

 

[Water Car Engineer]

26° AoA achieved so far. Which was minimum requirement. 28° AoA is desired in near future anyway( post FOC).

I've only read 24 for FOC

The transition from IOC to FOC will see the flight envelope being extended to -3.5G to +8G from the -2G to 6G when the ‘Tejas’ was granted limited IOC. The Angle of Attack (AoA) will also be increased to 24 degrees.

The Light Combat Aircraft will attain IOC this year and FOC by 2015

 

[Guynextdoor2]

This is exactly what I am talking about!

Then you have evidence against your own hypothesis.

 

[rockstarIN]

The article clearly state why Sri Lanka did not go for JF-17.

Because it is Chinese and USA do not want more Chinni dominated areas in IOR, so does India.

 

[kaykay]

I've only read 24 for FOC

The transition from IOC to FOC will see the flight envelope being extended to -3.5G to +8G from the -2G to 6G when the ‘Tejas’ was granted limited IOC. The Angle of Attack (AoA) will also be increased to 24 degrees.

The Light Combat Aircraft will attain IOC this year and FOC by 2015

Well I am saying what Saurav Jha had said. According to him, during IOC-2, requirement was for 24° but Tejas crossed it by 'some' 2° and thus fulfilling even FOC requirement( 26° minimum). This was done back in last 2014.

 

[Dazzler]

This isn't about 'Indians are butthurt about every pak development'. The visible proof of complex projects- money, lots of manpower, tech and in the case of the subcontinent, lots of pain. You don't have any of it, it's too good to be true. As far as AESA is concerned you're once again referrint o intent. You're comparing a system that's incorporating a radome for AESA with one where there is only intent? As @Kachra Seth has referred to, even FBW is not fully developed in JF 17. How do you think you get a fighter that's so cheap?


where does that assumption come from? according to economics having a single supplier makes the supplier slack. We know that to be true...just look at HAL and you'll know what we're referring to.

With all your money and so called super technology and assistance from the west, where is the end result? all you guys specialize is nitpicking and false chest thumping, now the argument comes down to the FBW. it has a quad redundant system followed by a dual redundant backup system as a safety mechanism, mig 29 has none, it is more agile than many of its counterparts.

Well I am saying what Saurav Jha had said. According to him, during IOC-2, requirement was for 24° but Tejas crossed it by 'some' 2° and thus fulfilling even FOC requirement( 26° minimum). This was done back in last 2014.

so thats how it works in india? it need 24 but crossed by 2 and wolla, the mythical 26 degrees achieved.

 

[kaykay]

With all your money and so called super technology and assistance from the west, where is the end result? all you guys specialize is nitpicking and false chest thumping, now the argument comes down to the FBW. it has a quad redundant system followed by a dual redundant backup system as a safety mechanism, mig 29 has none, it is more agile than many of its counterparts.



so thats how it works in india? it need 24 but crossed by 2 and wolla, the mythical 26 degrees achieved.

Why not? If some 'tweaks' can increase JF-17s radar range by 30%( whoa!!) why cant Tejas cross desired AoA during tests?

 

[Dazzler]

Why not? If some 'tweaks' can increase JF-17s radar range by 30%( whoa!!) why cant Tejas cross desired AoA during tests?

you call new data signal processor and twt unit as tweaks ?? do you know how much range can be enhanced by replacing these two components alone? sure you dont.

 

[Kachra Seth]

With all your money and so called super technology and assistance from the west, where is the end result?

What western assistance? You think the western countries would just hand over their cutting edge technological know how to us? They might sell us weapons but with limited TOT. Read about India's quest for cryogenic engines to know more about it.

And regarding money, India spends less than 2% of its GDP (just about 12% of Union budget) on defence. Being a developing nation, it has other priorities. Now compare this figures with that of Pakistan.

now the argument comes down to the FBW.

Not just FBW, JF-17 also lacks quality and reliable engines (F404 costs almost double that of RD-93 engines), lack of composites, again for saving cost, a cheap mechanicaly steered radar, which is a scaled down version of another cheap Chinese radar.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

With all your money and so called super technology and assistance from the west, where is the end result? all you guys specialize is nitpicking and false chest thumping, now the argument comes down to the FBW. it has a quad redundant system followed by a dual redundant backup system as a safety mechanism, mig 29 has none, it is more agile than many of its counterparts.



so thats how it works in india? it need 24 but crossed by 2 and wolla, the mythical 26 degrees achieved.

Then think...if with all the money and tech and assistance if India has had to go thru a $hit fest on the LCA, Pak not having the same (technically twice as bad) with lesser money, tech and experience will be convincing? It is strange that the answer lies in the reasoning of your question itself and you don't identify it.

 

[Dazzler]

What western assistance? You think the western countries would just hand over their cutting edge technological know how to us? They might sell us weapons but with limited TOT. Read about India's quest for cryogenic engines to know more about it.

And regarding money, India spends less than 2% of its GDP (just about 12% of Union budget) on defence. Being a developing nation, it has other priorities. Now compare this figures with that of Pakistan.



Not just FBW, JF-17 also lacks quality and reliable engines (F404 costs almost double that of RD-93 engines), lack of composites, again for saving cost, a cheap mechanicaly steered radar, which is a scaled down version of another cheap Chinese radar.

frustrated post, 2/3rd of your IAF has these so called cheap mechanical steered radars, any say about that? isnt your ADA also making a cheap mechanical MMR for your LCA as well? and your mig 29s have the same engine, any say on that or are willing to replace those obsolete ones as well?

the klj-7 is an excellent radar set comparable in general performance to APG--68V9 series.

Then think...if with all the money and tech and assistance if India has had to go thru a $hit fest on the LCA, Pak not having the same (technically twice as bad) with lesser money, tech and experience will be convincing? It is strange that the answer lies in the reasoning of your question itself and you don't identify it.

no, it is the difference of approach about oneself, you guys think you can do it all by yourself while we admit our limitations and work to ratify our shortcomings through TOT and license manufacturing. the result is for the world to see as our equipment is inducted generally, not always, into active service.

 

[GORKHALI]

We have J-10, J-11, J-15, J-16, JH-8, and the new J-20 and J31. What's your excuse.

are these with Pakistani air inventory ?? well you must try to comprehend first before posting anything.

HAL, DRDO, ADA and so on.

All three organisation turnover is more than Karachi stock exchange annual trade value....

 

[Dazzler]

All three organisation turnover is more than Karachi stock exchange annual trade value....

what about their repeated failures? who would you compare it with? should i start doing it by myself?

 

[Guynextdoor2]

frustrated post, 2/3rd of your IAF has these so called cheap mechanical steered radars, any say about that? isnt your ADA also making a cheap mechanical MMR for your LCA as well? and your mig 29s have the same engine, any say on that or are willing to replace those obsolete ones as well?

the klj-7 is an excellent radar set comparable in general performance to APG--68V9 series.



no, it is the difference of approach about oneself, you guys think you can do it all by yourself while we admit our limitations and work to ratify our shortcomings through TOT and license manufacturing. the result is for the world to see as our equipment is inducted generally, not always, into active service.

It's true that India has attempted more things and unlike your logic Ihas gained a lot too. LCA Radar was the first radar project we took up and now we have an AWACS based on tech built for that. AMCA will be built on the LCA base. The KMGT and lots of propulsion systems came out of Kaveri program. Net it's a positive revenue generator in several ways. Your limitations are ultimately your failures. You buy AWACS from Saab and other Radars from abroad, your ships will have engines from abroad and your actively inducted weapons are never really best in class. JF 17 is not best in class. You call a design that began with the idea of improving a Mig 21 as a 'medium class fighter'. Yet in the same class you're still scouting for a F 16. But in India the role assigned to LCA- light fighter- it is the only fighter the IAF wants to fill the entire class in the future.

what about their repeated failures? who would you compare it with? should i start doing it by myself?

You do not have projects of that scale man. It's like a small IT company saying Microsoft Vista sucks.