Chinese Flanker Family: J-11, J-16 ... Su-27SK/UBK, Su-30MKK

[Deino]

...
J-11B >> Su-30
...

Surely not. The J-11 is a fighther... a decent one but first of all nothing more.

It cannot carry guided air to ground weapons, it has no presicion strike capability the Su-30 undeniable has....

 

[Avicenna]

Just as Figaro noted... and look at the last paragraph



China was never trying to copy the AL-31F. They had their issues with the WS-10, but that's long over.

Yes just re-read the last paragraph. I missed that part. Thanks.

 

[ziaulislam]

Just as Figaro noted... and look at the last paragraph



China was never trying to copy the AL-31F. They had their issues with the WS-10, but that's long over.

so why did china buy su 35..?

 

[Figaro]

Just as Figaro noted... and look at the last paragraph



China was never trying to copy the AL-31F. They had their issues with the WS-10, but that's long over.

I didn't even notice that part after skimming the article. I will retract my earlier statement that this article "doesn't look too terrible." Most "War is Boring", "National Interest", "Popular Mechanics", and "Business Insider" PLA articles are short on facts and plagued with mistruths ...

so why did china buy su 35..?

Political considerations (Note that the S-400 and Su-35 deals, which had been in the making for nearly 10 years, was signed shortly after Xi entered office), J-11D program delays (which necessitated purchase of Su-35's for combat ops in SCS), TVC practice for pilots before the Chinese MATV goes online (could also be related to flight control integration with TVC) ...

 

[ziaulislam]

I didn't even notice that part after skimming the article. I will retract my earlier statement that this article "doesn't look too terrible." Most "War is Boring", "National Interest", "Popular Mechanics", and "Business Insider" PLA articles are short on facts and plagued with mistruths ...


Political considerations (Note that the S-400 and Su-35 deals, which had been in the making for nearly 10 years, was signed shortly after Xi entered office), J-11D program delays (which necessitated purchase of Su-35's for combat ops in SCS), TVC practice for pilots before the Chinese MATV goes online (could also be related to flight control integration with TVC) ...

poltics..okay, butt two squadrons make no sense just because there is some delays in j11 or j10 program, TVC..okay..the commonest inference will be china cant get its engine matured enough

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

so why did china buy su 35..?

Su-35 is upgraded version of Su-27. Su-35 used to be called Su-27M.

 

[ziaulislam]

But buying Su-35 has nothing to do with the engines apart from TVC. China can't exactly pluck out the AL-41 engines to put it into their own fighters. The only real difference between Su-35 engines and the WS-10 series is the former has better reliability (which should be obvious, as it is based off a decades old design) and TVC. Everything else is negligible. But buying Su-35's really wouldn't do much to address the engine "maturity" problem

will give china access to newer generation engines, and their maintence

Su-35 is upgraded version of Su-27. Su-35 used to be called Su-27M.

in presence of j11 and j16 why would china buy su35?

 

[Ultima Thule]

in presence of j11 and j16 why would china buy su35?

@wanglaokan , @Beast , @Kiss_of_the_Dragon can you clarify Mr @ziaulislam thank you

 

[ziaulislam]

Simple. Because the Su-35 is more advanced than the J-11B (J-11D has delays). The J-16 is there for a different (strike) role as opposed to air superiority missions. The AL-41 is not really a "newer generation engine" as it is based off the AL-31, which China has access to already. I have already told you that an upgraded WS-10 is comparable to the AL-41, with maturity and lack of TVC being the two caveats. There is absolutely nothing China can learn technology-wise from the AL-41 ...

so basically you are suggesting su 35 is too advance for Chinese to built anything similar
advance in what? avionics, radars, ECM, engines..?
isnt china suppose to be ahead of Russia in everything apart from core engine designs..?
and why just few sq, china isnt like india that cannot afford to buy stuff?

 

[ziaulislam]

I never said the Su-35 was "too advanced". All I'm saying is that the Su-35 was purchased to have immediate combat power. The J-11D, which is on the same level as the Su-35, has been delayed either due to testing or shifting priorities. China is ahead of Russian in several of the areas you just mentioned ... but China is behind in fielding TVC, which is a feature of the Su-35. Hence, the purchase of the Su-35 ...


Why does it make no sense? Let me remind you that Russia was insistent on at least 48 aircraft for the better half of a decade ... but due to crippling sanctions in 2014, they relented to 24 (which made the offer more attractive). And the "commonest inference" is simply wrong; China cannot make up for engine maturity by buying the Su-35. How is the purchase supposed to alleviate this problem in any way, shape, or form? Also, the Taihang engine series has matured considerably over the past two years ... we're seeing them on the J-20, J-10 TVC, and Y-20 ... which makes it less likely for a Su-35 purchase out of engine purposes. I have already given you several answers ... I'm not sure why you find it so difficult to contemplate.

so bottom line..., china for come reason had delayed production of j11D and so china quickly brought su35(after 8 years of negotiations) to cover that crisis..

 

[Figaro]

so bottom line..., china for come reason had delayed production of j11D and so china quickly brought su35(after 8 years of negotiations) to cover that crisis..

First, China did not "delay" production of the J-11D. All we know is that there are delays to the program ... not surprising given it's SAC ... and as a result made an immediate purchase of the Su-35 more enticing. Since you seem to misconstrue my points, I will sum up the reasons for the purchase for you ...

• Political Atmosphere - In 2015, China and Russia were pursing cozier diplomatic relations due to Xi's ascension to power and Russia's isolation from the West. Previously deals (i.e. Su-35, S-400), which had been stalled for years, were signed in a very short time span. Political expediency, I believe, ultimately led to the conclusion of the deal (which surprised many insiders in the PLAAF) ...
• Delay of the J-11D - Once again, there were reported delays in the J-11D program for uncertain reasons. As the Su-35 was superior to the J-11B, a sensible way to compensate for this shortfall was to purchase them in order to gain immediate combat capability. Given that the PLAAF has already released footage of the Su-35 practicing in the SCS, it seems likely that they were needed urgently to make up for the J-11D delay
• TVC - China has for a long time shown interest in TVC, making several prototypes and conducting extensive research. At the end of last year, we even saw a special 3D TVC equipped WS-10X on a J-10B/C prototype for testing. However, this is a category where China lacks behind Russia; the latter has extensive experience with TVC. Hence, purchasing a small squadron of Su-35s is one logical way to train pilots to associate themselves with TVC before the Chinese version is ready (formulate combat strategies). Also, I'd bet the Chinese want to optimize integration of TVC to FCS (flight control systems), which can be done through the Su-35.

At the end of the day, only the PLAAF knows the real reason for the purchase. But I believe the points I made are pretty accurate when it comes to the purchase ... the Su-35 deal was probably a combination of the above 3 factors, with politics being the largest.

 

[Deino]

will give china access to newer generation engines, and their maintence

IMO most of all a political deal but technically and tactically the PLAAF can immediately explore a TVC's operational use and integration into a FCS.

 

[星海军事]

First, China did not "delay" production of the J-11D. All we know is that there are delays to the program ... not surprising given it's SAC ... and as a result made an immediate purchase of the Su-35 more enticing. Since you seem to misconstrue my points, I will sum up the reasons for the purchase for you ...

It takes around four years for J-16 to finish its test flights and J-11D was first flown in 2015. Maybe we just need to wait.

 

[Akasa]

It takes around four years for J-16 to finish its test flights and J-11D was first flown in 2015. Maybe we just need to wait.

Is there indication that the J-11D program is still alive? We had a photo of a J-11D from February (or January?) 2018 but nothing so far.

 

[帅的一匹]

@wanglaokan , @Beast , @Kiss_of_the_Dragon can you clarify Mr @ziaulislam thank you

Simple question. Because we can't get F135, so we have to go for 117s. That will help us understand where we are standing right now.