Chinese Arab people

[al-Hasani]

They don't have revelance because China and Mongolia are no longer monarchies. Most Muslim descendants probably live outside of China like the former Khans of the Crimean Khanate.

Yes, that is obvious but I was more referring to some local influence in any way. I assume that the majority of the Borjigin clan still live in their ancestral homeland of Mongolia and Manchuria?

So, the only Muslim descendants left of Genghis Khan are probably only the descendants of the Crimean Khanate rulers? (Giray dynasty)

 

[ChinaToday]

this is a very good thread i didn't know many of our great millitary general were muslims

 

[Wholegrain]

Yes, that is obvious but I was more referring to some local influence in any way. I assume that the majority of the Borjigin clan still live in their ancestral homeland of Mongolia and Manchuria?

So, the only Muslim descendants left of Genghis Khan are probably only the descendants of the Crimean Khanate rulers? (Giray dynasty)

There are probably many but the only ones we can confirm with lineages are those from former royal families like the Crimean Khans.

 

[al-Hasani]

There are probably many but the only ones we can confirm with lineages are those from former royal families like the Crimean Khans.

Thank you. Yes, indeed. Not recorded off-spring is probably quite numerous. Much like with other noble families. I was more thinking if there where other known descendants, in terms of a recorded lineage, than the Crimean Khans? I mean did all the other lines die out? After all the Muslim branches of the Borjigin clan were quite numerous and ruled many different areas as you also said.

 

[kalu_miah]

The Northern Yuan dynasty was still a non Muslim Empire after Tamerlane's death (he didn't succeed in converting them nor the Borjigins who reside in Mongolia today), and Tamerlane he didn't intend to restore Genghis Khan's descendants, he wanted to personally take the throne for himself.

Northern Yuan Dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was building his own personal empire and using Genghis Khan's achievements as a standard to compare himself to. If he wanted to restore Genghis's descendants to the throne, he wouldn't have attacked the Golden Horde or Chagatais. He was collecting them like figureheads and chess pieces after defeating them and didn't give them any political power.

The point I am making is that the Muslim descendants of Genghis Khan (the Chagataids) had mostly normal relations with China. Tamerlane waged war against both the Chagataids and planned to do so on China. After Tamerlane died and the threat ended, there were only a few skirmishes over trade missions between various parties. The Chagataid Prince Turumtay from Kumul even died while fighting for the Ming dynasty against the Manchus.

Agreed. Tamerlane was using both Islam and Chingisid's as part of his strategy for Imperial conquest.

As for the Chagataid's in Moghulistan or eastern Chagatai Khanate (present Xinjiang), my guess is that they were friendly and allied with Mings because they did not encroach in their area, while Manchu's eventually did annex the area. The area broke free after the fall of Manchu's in 1910, but then it came under Beijing again from early 1950's.

Now I have a question like Al Hasani too, what happened to the Chagataid family's in Xinjiang, I heard their last capital was in Ili (Gulza). Did they become Uyghur ethnically?

I met Chingisid Kazakh in Urumchi and was trying to go Ili, but could not make it.

Babur's (the founder of Mughal dynasty) mother is from Ili, the daughter of Chagataid ruler there at the time, Yunus Khan.

 

[Wholegrain]

Thank you. Yes, indeed. Not recorded off-spring is probably quite numerous. Much like with other noble families. I was more thinking if there where other known descendants, in terms of a recorded lineage, than the Crimean Khans? I mean did all the other lines die out? After all the Muslim branches of the Borjigin clan were quite numerous and ruled many different areas as you also said.

Genghis Khan's descendants in central asia got overthrown by other families, like the Manghits in Bukhara.

 

[kalu_miah]

Genghis Khan's descendants in central asia got overthrown by other families, like the Manghits in Bukhara.

I think there still exists a tribe of Chingisid among Kazakhs, they are called Touray or something like that.

 

[Wholegrain]

Agreed. Tamerlane was using both Islam and Chingisid's as part of his strategy for Imperial conquest.

As for the Chagataid's in Moghulistan or eastern Chagatai Khanate (present Xinjiang), my guess is that they were friendly and allied with Mings because they did not encroach in their area, while Manchu's eventually did annex the area. The area broke free after the fall of Manchu's in 1910, but then it came under Beijing again from early 1950's.

Now I have a question like Al Hasani too, what happened to the Chagataid family's in Xinjiang, I heard their last capital was in Ili (Gulza). Did they become Uyghur ethnically?

I met Chingisid Kazakh in Urumchi and was trying to go Ili, but could not make it.

Babur's (the founder of Mughal dynasty) mother is from Ili, the daughter of Chagataid ruler there at the time, Yunus Khan.

I just remembered now that you mention it, the Kumul Khanate was a Chagataid vassal Khanate under the Qing dynasty.

The wiki article is written badly (stunted sentences, no flow) but here it is. It also contains some inaccurate information (the opposite situation on settlements occured, most Han in Xinjiang settled in Dzungharia and not other parts of Xinjiang)

Kumul Khanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Xinjiang also did not break free, the provincial administration was still in place. There was a massive three way war in the 1930s, with an attempt by some pan Turkist Uyghurs to declare an independent Republic but they were defeated by Hui soldiers. (Because of the violent pan Turkist language used by the Uyghurs they angered everyone who was not Turkic)

Kumul Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Soviets backed another revolt under the Uyghur leader Ehmetjan Qasim but were forced to abandon it because of the communist victory in the Chinese civil war. Hui and Salar soldiers in the Chinese army fought against the Soviets and Uyghurs

Ili Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And before you ask me, I have no idea where the current Chagatai heirs live or if they even exist anymore.

 

[Sasquatch]

@kalu_miah

I'm not in China right now, but I think we have a Chinese Muslim member here.

@Hu Songshan

You there?

Arabic and all other world languages can be studied in China

Whats up ?

 

[Wholegrain]

Whats up ?

Q&A with al-hasani

 

[Sasquatch]

@Wholegrain

Do you know if the Ding family has any webpage, organization of some short or anything along those lines? Could be interesting.

Also is Arabic a subject/language that can be studied in China? Also have you ever met any Arab students in China? Because there are quite a few.

We also have Chinese students in the Arab world. But I guess you can find Chinese people all over the world.

No sure about any public site of the Ding family, however there are extensive ties with the Gulf States business and cultural with my home region ningxia.

Q&A with al-hasani

I will give it to the best of my knowledge.

 

[al-Hasani]

No sure about any public site of the Ding family, however there are extensive ties with the Gulf States business and cultural with my home region ningxia.



I will give it to the best of my knowledge.

First of all it is a honor to met a Chinese Muslim. Never met or talked to any in my life. And even a moderator on PDF!

Thank you a lot. The clip I posted in this topic (first post) also tells about that.

Yes, I would gladly appreciate that. I am sure that others would appreciate it too.

 

[Sasquatch]

First of all it is a honor to met a Chinese Muslim. Never met or talked to any in my life. And even a moderator on PDF!

Thank you a lot. The clip I posted in this topic (first post) also tells about that.

Yes, I would gladly appreciate that. I am sure that others would appreciate it too.

@al-Hasani thanks check this out if you like. I have to go to work now but I will get back to you later.

CHINA TODAY

 

[kalu_miah]

I just remembered now that you mention it, the Kumul Khanate was a Chagataid vassal Khanate under the Qing dynasty.

The wiki article is written badly (stunted sentences, no flow) but here it is. It also contains some inaccurate information (the opposite situation on settlements occured, most Han in Xinjiang settled in Dzungharia and not other parts of Xinjiang)

Kumul Khanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Xinjiang also did not break free, the provincial administration was still in place. There was a massive three way war in the 1930s, with an attempt by some pan Turkist Uyghurs to declare an independent Republic but they were defeated by Hui soldiers. (Because of the violent pan Turkist language used by the Uyghurs they angered everyone who was not Turkic)

Kumul Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Soviets backed another revolt under the Uyghur leader Ehmetjan Qasim but were forced to abandon it because of the communist victory in the Chinese civil war. Hui and Salar soldiers in the Chinese army fought against the Soviets and Uyghurs

Ili Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And before you ask me, I have no idea where the current Chagatai heirs live or if they even exist anymore.

I guess "break free" are not correct words, "under turmoil and rebellion" and "in flux" would be more appropriate.

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani thanks check this out if you like. I have to go to work now but I will get back to you later.

CHINA TODAY

Very interesting video. Thank you very much. I started to watch similar videos from the same channel about Ningxia. I learnt that this is the main region of the Hui people. You have a lot of mosques I see too, some very ancient and unique in terms of architecture. Are you from Yinchuan, if I may ask?

They said in the video that the Hui people were descendants of Arab and Persian Muslims people that settled in Ningxia and intermarried with locals. How correct is that claim according to you?