Chinese Aero Engine information thread

[Deino]

@Martian2

View attachment 256130

No ... again and again ! The J-20 uses AL-31FN in a slightly modified version, but surely not a TH-derivate !

You can clearly see the length of the pedals is longer, their number is different, even the different sections is different (but the same on the WS-10-versions).

And even more the WS-10B cannot fit on a Flanker since it has its gearbox on the bottom similar to all western engines as well as the AL-31NF ... a Flanker can only use a WS-10A or these newer A-models with that black section. However IMO they are the same - since interchangeable - and maybe only build from a different material.

Deino

 

[Viper0011.]

that's pretty bad. having to deal with crappy russian engines, now you can produce your own

Holly smoke!!! Literally . Talk about an environment footprint . A thousand Migs like these will destroy the entire Ozone layer and Aliens from the Sun will attack us with their UV guns!!!

@Martian2

View attachment 256130

10G is being optimized for TVC it seems like? Many fins and controls to support TVC are visible.....is that the plan behind the "G" series?

 

[Deino]

There is no WS-10G operationally flying ... and not even with TVC !

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

AL-31 or WS-10?

10G is being optimized for TVC it seems like? Many fins and controls to support TVC are visible.....is that the plan behind the "G" series?

We just have to wait the official confirmation.

BTW, here is the TVC nozzle used by the J-20.

 

[Deino]

AL-31 or WS-10?

View attachment 256258



We just have to wait the official confirmation.

BTW, here is the TVC nozzle used by the J-20.

View attachment 256272

No, surely not ... this images shows an TVC-nozzle of a design (not even sure if a Chinese) but that image was already shown when we just heard the first rumours about a possible WS-10 & J-10 in the late 1990s.

Deino

 

[VCheng]

China's indigenous WS-10A turbofan engine is an engineering marvel. It doesn't smoke. This means there is no oil leaking into the engine's combustion chamber. This requires perfect machining of aerospace parts to ensure no oil can leak through an imperfect gap. This requires a 3-micron five-axis CNC machine tool.

The main issue that causes smoke is incomplete combustion of the fuel, not oil ingestion.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No, surely not ... this images shows an TVC-nozzle of a design (not even sure if a Chinese) but that image was already shown when we just heard the first rumours about a possible WS-10 & J-10 in the late 1990s.

Deino

That's Chinese, the Russian one has the sealed external flap like this.

BTW, you still haven't answered by question, the first pic has AL-31 or WS-10?

 

[razgriz19]

The main issue that causes smoke is incomplete combustion of the fuel, not oil ingestion.

Correct. In efficient combustion = black smoke
Oil burning = white smoke, mostly at start ups as the oil drips down from the bearings to the engine case during the last shut down.

 

[Martian2]

Okay. That shifts the culprit from oil leaking into the combustion chamber to incomplete burning of the jet fuel inside the combustion chamber.

The problem is still the same. Imperfectly machined Russian parts.

Do to the lack of precise micron-level CNC five-axis machine tools, the Russian components inside the combustion chamber are unable to meet the necessary tolerances to enable clean combustion like China's WS-10A and American turbofan jet engines.

 

[Deino]

...BTW, here is the TVC nozzle used by the J-20.

View attachment 256272

Again to this AVEN nozzle ... I searched thru my hard-drive and found these two images both dated long-long before we ever got notice of the J-20: first in 2001 and then in 2006. Even more that nozzle looks completely different !

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Again to this AVEN nozzle ... I searched thru my hard-drive and found these two images both dated long-long before we ever got notice of the J-20: first in 2001 and then in 2006. Even more that nozzle looks completely different !

View attachment 256447 View attachment 256448

BTW, that's not the US TVC nozzle, you can notice the dot on the flap, while the Chinese one doesn't have.

Anyway, you should answer my question about the first pic of the post #21, it is AL-31 or WS-10?

 

[Deino]

BTW, that's not the US TVC nozzle, you can notice the dot on the flap, while the Chinese one doesn't have.

Anyway, you should answer my question about the first pic of the post #21, it is AL-31 or WS-10?

I never said that is an US nozzle ... I found it at first in 2001 and later again in 2006, so it is surely not the J-20's engines.

Regarding Your question, that's indeed a WS-10A fitted to a J-11B Block 2 or later ... however it is not related to TVC !

Deino

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I never said that is an US nozzle ... I found it at first in 2001 and later again in 2006, so it is surely not the J-20's engines.

Regarding Your question, that's indeed a WS-10A fitted to a J-11B Block 2 or later ... however it is not related to TVC !

Deino

Dude, you should stop arguing with me, instead you should go to argue with CCTV, but they have already confirmed that the engine used by the J-20 prototype 2001 was the WS-10B.

http://www.tudou.com/v/-dfey0NEjxY/&resourceId=0_04_02_99/v.swf

 

[Deino]

Dude, you should stop arguing with me, instead you should go to argue with CCTV, but they have already confirmed that the engine used by the J-20 prototype 2001 was the WS-10B.

http://www.tudou.com/v/-dfey0NEjxY/&resourceId=0_04_02_99/v.swf

And You should think instead of simply repeating what an un-informed reporter reports in a TV-show !

Regardless what they tell, the facts simply speak against a WS-10B ! ... even more for the image You posted.
As such please stick to the facts and not to wish-full thinking and even more don't mix Your arguments:

- Your image simply can't be a WS-10B since it is an old one (older than 2001 !)
- It is not related to the WS-10A on a Flanker in Your request and even less to any US engine.
- Altogether You posted three completely different engines /a standard WS-10A, the AL-31FN on a J-20, that strange TVC-nozzle from 2001 ... and now You tell me 2016 uses a WS-10B ! without any clear image and three other different engines. What kind of logic is this ?
- regardless what that report (by the way I can't open that link) tells, You posted the nozzle of one of the earlier J-20 prototypes and they were clearly powered by an AL-31FN ... even if I won't exclude that 2016 uses indeed a new engine.

As such what all that mess .... ?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

And You should think instead of simply repeating what an un-informed reporter reports in a TV-show !

Regardless what they tell, the facts simply speak against a WS-10B ! ... even more for the image You posted.
As such please stick to the facts and not to wish-full thinking and even more don't mix Your arguments:

- Your image simply can't be a WS-10B since it is an old one (older than 2001 !)
- It is not related to the WS-10A on a Flanker in Your request and even less to any US engine.
- Altogether You posted three completely different engines /a standard WS-10A, the AL-31FN on a J-20, that strange TVC-nozzle from 2001 ... and now You tell me 2016 uses a WS-10B ! without any clear image and three other different engines. What kind of logic is this ?
- regardless what that report (by the way I can't open that link) tells, You posted the nozzle of one of the earlier J-20 prototypes and they were clearly powered by an AL-31FN ... even if I won't exclude that 2016 uses indeed a new engine.

As such what all that mess .... ?

Well, go to tell everyone that CCTV has lied, since it is nothing but commie propaganda.