Chinese Aero Engine information thread

[ChineseTiger1986]

One picture speaks more than million words.

China first got the prototype of the TVC nozzle since 1998.

@Martian2 @Beast

 

[Martian2]

1. I think most of the western publications are leaning towards the idea that both engine types on the J-20 are Russian.

2. There is still room for uncertainty. No one is 100% sure. The silver-nozzle variant has features that point in different directions. You can argue petal numbers (pointing toward Russian) or nozzle shape (pointing toward Chinese).

3. China is constantly upgrading its technology. New engine variants are being tested. We usually find out a few years after the fact.

4. Most of the western publications have stated that China will use a WS-10 variant or the WS-15 in the production version of the J-20.

In my view, I prefer to wait until the production version. It's only two to three years away. All of the ambiguities will disappear.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

1. I think most of the western publications are leaning towards the idea that both engine types on the J-20 are Russian.

2. There is still room for uncertainty. No one is 100% sure. The silver-nozzle variant has features that point in different directions. You can argue petal numbers (pointing toward Russian) or nozzle shape (pointing toward Chinese).

3. China is constantly upgrading its technology. New engine variants are being tested. We usually find out a few years after the fact.

4. Most of the western publications have stated that China will use a WS-10 variant or the WS-15 in the production version of the J-20.

In my view, I prefer to wait until the production version. It's only two to three years away. All of the ambiguities will disappear.

CCTV has already disclosed the fact that the engine is the WS-10B, yet they are still considered unreliable?

If CCTV is unreliable about China's own equipment, then I don't know who else can be.

 

[Martian2]

CCTV has already disclosed the fact that the engine is the WS-10B, yet they are still considered unreliable?

If CCTV is unreliable about China's own equipment, then I don't know who else can be.

I didn't know CCTV (ie. China Central Television) disclosed that information.

By the time China's official television makes a claim, it's fairly reliable.

If CCTV is making the claim then it probably is a WS-10B.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I didn't know CCTV (ie. China Central Television) disclosed that information.

By the time China's official television makes a claim, it's fairly reliable.

If CCTV is making the claim then it probably is a WS-10B.

CCTV has done that more than once.

They have also invited the PLA military expert to some TV show.

And the PLA expert clearly stated the J-20 has tested with the indigenous engine, but the J-31 clearly uses the Russian engine.

These information are quite hard to be accessed by the non-Chinese speaking people.

 

[VCheng]

Okay. That shifts the culprit from oil leaking into the combustion chamber to incomplete burning of the jet fuel inside the combustion chamber.

The problem is still the same. Imperfectly machined Russian parts.

Do to the lack of precise micron-level CNC five-axis machine tools, the Russian components inside the combustion chamber are unable to meet the necessary tolerances to enable clean combustion like China's WS-10A and American turbofan jet engines.

It is not as simple as just the precision of machining. Combustion chamber design and the software to control it all play major roles as well.

 

[Martian2]

It is not as simple as just the precision of machining. Combustion chamber design and the software to control it all play major roles as well.

Come on. The Russians have been building turbofan engines for decades. You're claiming they don't know how to design a proper combustion chamber? Yet, China designed a perfect combustion chamber on its first try in the WS-10A? That's extremely unlikely.

Software? Russians don't know how to program? Once again, extremely unlikely.

It has to be something critical that the Russians lack. It's not combustion chamber design or software. It's incredibly precise five-axis CNC micron-level machine tools. It's a high-technology gap, not an understanding of combustion chambers or software application. If it was combustion chamber design or a software problem, the Russians would have kept improving until they fixed the problem.

 

[VCheng]

Come on. The Russians have been building turbofan engines for decades. You're claiming they don't know how to design a proper combustion chamber? Yet, China designed a perfect combustion chamber on its first try in the WS-10A? That's extremely unlikely.

Software? Russians don't know how to program? Once again, extremely unlikely.

It has to be something critical that the Russians lack. It's not combustion chamber design or software. It's incredibly precise five-axis CNC micron-level machine tools.

The Chinese engines are not as good as you are making them out to be, even the latest ones. They are at about the same level as the Russian engines, and both are well behind Western designs.

 

[Martian2]

The Chinese engines are not as good as you as making them out to be, even the latest ones. They are at about the same level as the Russian engines, and both are well behind Western designs.

Did you bother reading the original post?

The Chinese WS-10A engine does not smoke. The video is two minutes long.

Russian engines smoke. This is a problem during WVR. The enemy pilot can easily track a Russian fighter by following the smoke.

In terms of visual stealth, the Chinese WS-10A engine is clearly superior to Russian engines. The question is why? I think it's five-axis CNC micron-precision machine tools.

 

[VCheng]

Did you bother reading the original post?

The Chinese WS-10A engine does not smoke. The video is two minutes long.

Russian engines smoke.

In terms of visual stealth, the Chinese WS-10A engine is clearly superior to Russian engines. The question is why? I think it's five-axis CNC micron-precision machine tools.

The WS-10A smokes too.

 

[Martian2]

The WS-10A smokes too.

Watch the video. The WS-10A smokes very little in comparison to Russian engines.

 

[VCheng]

Watch the video. The WS-10A smokes very little in comparison to Russian engines.

It does smoke, and it takes far more than just a video to determine such performance, specially in sudden throttle and flight transitions.

 

[Martian2]

It does smoke, and it takes far more than just a video to determine such performance, specially in sudden throttle and flight transitions.

You're delusional. Believe whatever you want.

 

[VCheng]

You're delusional. Believe whatever you want.

My beliefs are formed only on the basis of facts, and thank you for the permission to make up my own mind, although I did not need it in the first place.

The Chinese engines are indeed improving quite rapidly, but they remain well behind the curve.

 

[Akasa]

It does smoke, and it takes far more than just a video to determine such performance, specially in sudden throttle and flight transitions.

To be honest, I've never seen an AL-31 smoke.

The selling point of Russian engines over Chinese ones is their relatively brief spool-up time.