China’s Submarine Fleet, Evolution & news

[ChineseTiger1986]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you have nothing to validate that claim right?

The LA class belongs to the 1970s technology, nothing outrageous here from my claim.

From our military experts, since no Cold War SSN can shoot the LACM.

我093G核潜艇威胁大型战舰?可加装对陆巡航导弹--军事--人民网

 

[Víðarr]

The LA class belongs to the 1970s technology, nothing outrageous here from my claim.

From our military experts, since no Cold War SSN can shoot the LACM.

我093G核潜艇威胁大型战舰?可加装对陆巡航导弹--军事--人民网

Two things.

1. The LA's have been consistently upgraded. The original design may be from the 1970s, the original B-52 and H-6 are from an earlier time period, how do the modern ones compare? Modern LA class subs, the Improved LA, have the same VLS and LACM capabilities as the Type 093G

2. The source you provided does nothing to address the claim you made. In fact, quoting Yin Zhuo, it only mentions that the vertical launching system of the Type 093G is superior to the Oscar class, and while I agree with that assessment, his thoughts still don't provide any evidence, just his opinion.

Military expert Yin Zhuo, said during an interview with CCTV, China and the world nuclear submarine nuclear submarine design standards generally flat. The picture shows 093G submarine installed vertical launch system can achieve omnidirectional attack, but also more advanced than Russia's "Oscar" class nuclear submarine launch system.

我093G核潜艇威胁大型战舰?可加装对陆巡航导弹--军事--人民网 - Yes, I can read it.

A submarine is more than a VLS. Combat systems, munitions, propulsion, internal and external sensors, internal and external signature suppression systems. How do those compare with the LA class SSN and the Oscar Class SSGN? These can't be peer-to-peer rivals to the Oscar and LA without addressing the rest of the factors.

Also, the Oscar and LA aren't good benchmarks, considering both were supplanted by the Oscar II and Improved LA. The first LA came about in 1976. The first Improved LA in 1988. The source mentions LA and Oscar, not Oscar II and Improved LA. Not the best benchmark.

Finally, there are 3 different LA variants, all with different capabilities. Some have VLS, some incorporate tech found on the Virginia's, all have been upgraded throughout the years.

List of Los Angeles-class submarines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You said;

This is China's peer SSN against the Virginia class, better than the Soviet Oscar class and the American LA class.

But only validated this with a VLS. Now wheres the rest of the comparison?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Two things.

1. The LA's have been consistently upgraded. The original design may be from the 1970s, the original B-52 and H-6 are from an earlier time period, how do the modern ones compare?

2. The source you provided does nothing to address the claim you made. In fact, quoting Yin Zhuo, it only mentions that the vertical launching system of the Type 093g is superior to the Oscar class, and while I agree with that assessment, his thoughts still don't provide any evidence, just his opinion.

Military expert Yin Zhuo, said during an interview with CCTV, China and the world nuclear submarine nuclear submarine design standards generally flat. The picture shows 093G submarine installed vertical launch system can achieve omnidirectional attack, but also more advanced than Russia's "Oscar" class nuclear submarine launch system.

我093G核潜艇威胁大型战舰?可加装对陆巡航导弹--军事--人民网

A submarine is more than a VLS. COmbat systems, munitions, propulsion, internal and external sensors, internal and external signature supression systems. How do those compare with the LA class SSN and the Oscar Class LA.

Also, the Oscar and LA aren't good benchmarks, considering both were supplanted by the Oscar II and Improved LA. The first LA came about in 1976. The first Improved LA in 1988.

Finally, there are 3 different LA variants, all with different capabilities. Some have VLS, some incorporate tech found on the Virginia's, all have been upgraded throughout the years.

List of Los Angeles-class submarines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You said;

This is China's peer SSN against the Virginia class, better than the Soviet Oscar class and the American LA class.

But only validated this with a VLS. Now wheres the rest of the comparison?

Yeah, the late LA class has added with the VLS, considered that the Seawolf/Virginia class are pretty numbered in deployment.

Our Type 093G was mentioned to have a newly designed nuclear reactor that allows the boat to sail in a higher speed with much less noise.

BTW, it is like the evolution from the Type 052B to the Type 052D, which is a huge gap.

The electronics and sensors are also much more evolved than their Cold War counterparts, this is the general common sense, no need to be a genius to figure it out.

 

[Víðarr]

no need to be a genius to figure it out.

The Office of Naval Intelligence would disagree with you. It's actually rather difficult to figure out, hence a lack of quality sources. How does an observer learn what's on the inside?

It can be assumed that an upgrade has occurred over earlier blocks, but we can't be sure of that.

Yeah, the late LA class has added with the VLS, considered that the Seawolf/Virginia class are pretty numbered in deployment.

And the Type 093 isn't? Right now there are 3 Sea Wolfs, 11 Virginia's active (4 block I, 6 block II and one block III) -19 more are being procured with 4 being actively constructed. 31 LA Class boats armed with VLS systems are currently active.

List of Los Angeles-class submarines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Virginia-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many 093G's are active? Far less.

Our Type 093G was mentioned to have a newly designed nuclear reactor that allows the boat to sail in a higher speed with much less noise.

A lot more than that to sub quieting.

All in all, it's a good start. But let's avoid the comparisons, and I'm not saying the 093G is bad, just your claim isn't supportable, to the Virginia and Seawolfs unless we can provide specific points of comparison and back them up with quality sources.

Which we can't

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

And the Type 093 isn't? Right now there are 3 Sea Wolfs, 11 Virginia's active (4 block I, 6 block II and one block III) -19 more are being procured with 4 being actively constructed. 31 LA Class boats armed with VLS systems are currently active.

List of Los Angeles-class submarines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Virginia-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How many 093G's are active? Far less.

They have deliberately showed 3 boats after the completion, so maybe 6-10 in planning.

I am pretty sure that the Type 095 will be in the parallel development.

BTW, when we add another shipyard for the construction of the SSN, we can easily add another 20-30 nuclear subs within a decade.

 

[Zarvan]

Well, the Type 093G was mentioned to trail against the Virginia class.

As for the Seawolf class, we have to put the Type 095 as the countermeasure.

We are now producing the super titanium that allow the sub to dive under 600 meters, and it is obviously aimed at the Seawolf class.

It is up to you to believe it or not.

China says type 095 nuclear submarine is better than US submarines | China Daily Mail

What I have read is your Type 95 is equal to virginia class not Type 93G Please explain

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

What I have read is your Type 95 is equal to virginia class not Type 93G Please explain

The Type 095 is a heavy class SSN (12000 tons) to counter against the Seawolf class.

The Type 093G is a medium class SSN (8000 tons) to match against the Virginia class.

 

[Zarvan]

The Type 095 is a heavy class SSN (12000 tons) to counter against the Seawolf class.

The Type 093G is a medium class SSN (8000 tons) to match against the Virginia class.

And How about Type 96

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

And How about Type 96

The Type 096 is a SSBN, which is designed to carry the SLBMs.

 

[Zarvan]

Reuters/China Daily

China, Military, Navy, Nuclear
Chinese shipbuilders have completed three advanced nuclear-propelled submarines that can fire the latest vertically launched anti-ship missiles, local media reported.

Satellite pictures broadcast last week by China Central Television showed three submarines anchored at an unidentified port, China Daily reported. The vessels were reported to be Type-093G submarines just completed by a shipyard and ready to be delivered to the Navy of the People’s Liberation Army.

Type-093G is an advanced version of Type-093, China’s second-generation nuclear-powered attack submarines. Compared to the relatively short 110-m regular variant, the Type-093G has a longer hull to make room for a vertical launch system, the report said.

The launchers are designed to fire YJ-18, the vertically launched version of China’s YJ-12 supersonic anti-ship missile, according to the Navy’s website. The advanced missile can reportedly carry a 300-kilogram warhead to a range over 200 kilometers and is capable of performing maneuvers at speeds of up to Mach 3 just before hitting its target.

The Type-093G submarine also has improved speed and mobility, and reduced noise compared to the regular version, the website said.

PLA’s Navy is believed to have up to six Type-093 submarines currently in service in addition to three older Type-091s. A new Type-095 submarine is currently in development. China also reportedly has four Type-094 ballistic missile submarines carrying JL-1 or JL-2 nuclear missiles.



Read more
China outpaces America in sub numbers – US admiral


Earlier in February, US Vice Admiral Joseph Mulloy said China had surpassed the US in the total number of submarines.

“They may not be the same quality, but their submarine forces are growing at a tremendous rate. They now have more diesel and nuclear attack submarines than we have,” the admiral told a House subcommittee.

“They are producing some fairly amazing submarines and they are actually deploying them,” he added, explaining the Chinese vessels are being sent on longer missions to regions located further from China.

The assessment sparked fears in the US that China would be able to strike American territory from its submarines deployed in the Pacific. However, the fears may be exaggerated, since JL-2, which according to some estimates has enough range to reach Alaska, Hawaii or the US military bases in Guam, is believed to have been in service since at least 2012.

Chinese naval development was addressed in the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission’s annual report to Congress in December last year, Military.com reported. Among other issues the commission commented on Chinese-Russian military development cooperation and a joint deal to build new attack submarines.

“China is pursuing joint-design and production of four to six Russian advanced diesel-electric attack submarines containing Russia’s latest submarine sonar, propulsion, and quieting technology,” the commission said.

“The deal would improve the PLA Navy’s capabilities and assist China’s development of quiet submarines, thus complicating future US efforts to track and counter the PLA submarines,” it added.
China reportedly completes 3 advanced nuclear attack subs — RT News

 

[Indus Falcon]

Good news!!! Thanks @Zarvan

 

[cirr]

 

[My-Analogous]

Reuters/China Daily

China, Military, Navy, Nuclear
Chinese shipbuilders have completed three advanced nuclear-propelled submarines that can fire the latest vertically launched anti-ship missiles, local media reported.

Satellite pictures broadcast last week by China Central Television showed three submarines anchored at an unidentified port, China Daily reported. The vessels were reported to be Type-093G submarines just completed by a shipyard and ready to be delivered to the Navy of the People’s Liberation Army.

Type-093G is an advanced version of Type-093, China’s second-generation nuclear-powered attack submarines. Compared to the relatively short 110-m regular variant, the Type-093G has a longer hull to make room for a vertical launch system, the report said.

The launchers are designed to fire YJ-18, the vertically launched version of China’s YJ-12 supersonic anti-ship missile, according to the Navy’s website. The advanced missile can reportedly carry a 300-kilogram warhead to a range over 200 kilometers and is capable of performing maneuvers at speeds of up to Mach 3 just before hitting its target.

The Type-093G submarine also has improved speed and mobility, and reduced noise compared to the regular version, the website said.

PLA’s Navy is believed to have up to six Type-093 submarines currently in service in addition to three older Type-091s. A new Type-095 submarine is currently in development. China also reportedly has four Type-094 ballistic missile submarines carrying JL-1 or JL-2 nuclear missiles.



Read more
China outpaces America in sub numbers – US admiral


Earlier in February, US Vice Admiral Joseph Mulloy said China had surpassed the US in the total number of submarines.

“They may not be the same quality, but their submarine forces are growing at a tremendous rate. They now have more diesel and nuclear attack submarines than we have,” the admiral told a House subcommittee.

“They are producing some fairly amazing submarines and they are actually deploying them,” he added, explaining the Chinese vessels are being sent on longer missions to regions located further from China.

The assessment sparked fears in the US that China would be able to strike American territory from its submarines deployed in the Pacific. However, the fears may be exaggerated, since JL-2, which according to some estimates has enough range to reach Alaska, Hawaii or the US military bases in Guam, is believed to have been in service since at least 2012.

Chinese naval development was addressed in the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission’s annual report to Congress in December last year, Military.com reported. Among other issues the commission commented on Chinese-Russian military development cooperation and a joint deal to build new attack submarines.

“China is pursuing joint-design and production of four to six Russian advanced diesel-electric attack submarines containing Russia’s latest submarine sonar, propulsion, and quieting technology,” the commission said.

“The deal would improve the PLA Navy’s capabilities and assist China’s development of quiet submarines, thus complicating future US efforts to track and counter the PLA submarines,” it added.
China reportedly completes 3 advanced nuclear attack subs — RT News

Pakistan should asked China to lease one nuclear sub so that by the time our sub is ready, we have a well train staff to handle it.

 

[sonicboom]

Acoustic Quietness of Chinese Submarines

Figure 1 and Figure 2, which are taken from the August 2009 ONI report, show the acoustic
quietness of Chinese nuclear- and non-nuclear-powered submarines, respectively, relative to that
of Russian nuclear- and non-nuclear-powered submarines. The downward slope of the arrow in
each figure indicates the increasingly lower noise levels (i.e., increasing acoustic quietness) of the
submarine designs shown. In general, quieter submarines are more difficult for opposing forces to
detect and counter. The green-yellow-red color spectrum on the arrow in each figure might be
interpreted as a rough indication of the relative difficulty that a navy with capable antisubmarine
warfare forces (such as the U.S. Navy) might have in detecting and countering these submarines:
Green might indicate submarines that would be relatively easy for such a navy to detect and
counter, yellow might indicate submarines that would be less easy for such a navy to detect and
counter, and red might indicate submarines that would be more difficult for such a navy to detect
and counter.


Figure 1:

Figure 2:

For detailed information, please refer to the following article:
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33153.pdf

 

[UKBengali]

I suppose this is the model that is supposed to be as quiet as the improved Los Angeles class but with better sonar and electronics.

Type-95 SSN should be better but unlikely to be comparable to the Virginia class.