ChineseTiger1986
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lol, that's why Trump wants to kill the EMALS so badly.
Hopefully, the USN can still stick with their steam catapult for another 3-5 decades.
China’s Submarine Fleet, Evolution & news
- Thread starter Manticore
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lol, that's why Trump wants to kill the EMALS so badly.
Hopefully, the USN can still stick with their steam catapult for another 3-5 decades.
Penguin
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#7 article is much more balanced.
"Chinese engineers are reported to be planning a rim-driven thruster specifically being developed as an auxiliary propulsion unit for the PLAN’s new Type 095 SSNs now under development."
"Rim-driven thrusters are relatively new, having been introduced only in 2010 by the German firm Voith GmbH and the Dutch firm Van der Velden Marine Systems B.V. They’re intended for use as maneuvering units and not as main propulsion units."
https://worldofweapon.wordpress.com...ll-make-its-new-nuclear-attack-subs-the-best/
It is easy to claim to be ahead. However, it is exceedingly difficult to show what USN is working on for future SSN/SSBN and how far along they are (they certainly aren't going to advertise!)
Researchers have identified a quieter advanced propulsion system and the ability to control multiple unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs) at once as key SSN(X) components.
https://news.usni.org/2016/03/09/pe...thy-electric-drive-controls-for-multiple-uuvs
New propulsion technology for the USNs future Virginia class boars, could be moving beyond the use of a rotating mechanical device to push the boat through the water, and could come in the form a biomimetic propulsion system that would eliminate noise-generating moving parts like the drive shaft and the spinning blades of the propulsor.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...submarine-super-stealthy-now-underwater-16978
urh... what? BIOMIMETICS?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomimetics
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Devil Soul
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Did China Just Create the "Holy Grail" Of Submarine Technologies?
Dave Majumdar
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The Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) claims to have developed new electrically-powered pump-jet propulsor that would theoretically be much quieter than any current generation Western submarine propulsion system.
Unlike a conventional propulsor design—which is turned by a mechanical drive shaft—China’s rim-driven system is powered by an electrical motor embedded in the propulsor’s shroud.
“A rim-driven pump-jet has a ring-shaped electrical motor inside the pump-jet shroud, which turns the vane rotor inside the pump-jet cavity to create thrust,” asSouth China Morning Post reporter Minnie Chan described the system.
Theoretically, without a drive-shaft, a submarine should be much quieter, and thus much more difficult to detect. Additionally, the Chinese are claiming that the new propulsor could reduce cavitation, which would also significantly help to improve a submarine’s acoustical signature performance.
“This is one of our work team’s first world-leading projects, which has been used on [China’s] next-generation nuclear submarines,” PLAN Rear Admiral Ma Weiming told China Central Television in May according to SCMP.
“[Our technology] is now way ahead of the United States, which has also been developing similar technology.”
Ma told the Chinese television channel that the new rim-driven pump-jet will be fitted onto the PLAN’s next-generation nuclear submarines. Those vessels might include versions of the nuclear-powered Type 095 attack submarines and the Type 096 ballistic missile submarines. However, PLAN has not confirmed which of its new submarines might receive the new propulsor technology.
The U.S. Navy uses pump-jet propulsor technology onboard its Improved Los Angeles, Seawolf and Virginia-class attack submarines. The U.S. Navy is also planning to use a pumpjet propulsor onboard its forthcoming Columbia-classnuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines. The Columbia-class will use integrated electrical propulsion with a permanent-magnet motor turning the submarine’s drive shaft.
Developing a shaftless propulsion system is something akin to the holy grail of submarine propulsion. U.S. naval experts are skeptical of the Chinese claims.
“I read this earlier this morning and concluded that the PLAN propaganda machine was busy on July 4th,” Bryan McGrath, managing director of the FerryBridge Group naval consultancy, told me.
But while McGrath is skeptical, if the Chinese claims prove to be true, it could be something significant.
“Yes, something...if genuine,” McGrath said.
“And there is no question in my mind that the undersea advantage we enjoy will come under increasing pressure from PLAN capabilities. But quieter that U.S. subs? No.”
Thus, if the Chinese have managed to successfully develop a rim-driven pumpjet propulsor that works in a real world operational setting, it would be a significant development. It would mean that the PLAN is making genuine progress in developing novel submarine technologies and that it is starting to catch up. But there is more to a submarine’s acoustical stealth than just the propulsion system, and it will take time and a lot of trial and error before the PLAN can match or exceed American capabilities in the undersea domain.
Dave Majumdar is the defense editor of The National Interest. You can follow him on Twitter @DaveMajumdar.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...e-the-holy-grail-submarine-technologies-21436
Dave Majumdar
TweetShareShare
The Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) claims to have developed new electrically-powered pump-jet propulsor that would theoretically be much quieter than any current generation Western submarine propulsion system.
Unlike a conventional propulsor design—which is turned by a mechanical drive shaft—China’s rim-driven system is powered by an electrical motor embedded in the propulsor’s shroud.
“A rim-driven pump-jet has a ring-shaped electrical motor inside the pump-jet shroud, which turns the vane rotor inside the pump-jet cavity to create thrust,” asSouth China Morning Post reporter Minnie Chan described the system.
Theoretically, without a drive-shaft, a submarine should be much quieter, and thus much more difficult to detect. Additionally, the Chinese are claiming that the new propulsor could reduce cavitation, which would also significantly help to improve a submarine’s acoustical signature performance.
“This is one of our work team’s first world-leading projects, which has been used on [China’s] next-generation nuclear submarines,” PLAN Rear Admiral Ma Weiming told China Central Television in May according to SCMP.
“[Our technology] is now way ahead of the United States, which has also been developing similar technology.”
Ma told the Chinese television channel that the new rim-driven pump-jet will be fitted onto the PLAN’s next-generation nuclear submarines. Those vessels might include versions of the nuclear-powered Type 095 attack submarines and the Type 096 ballistic missile submarines. However, PLAN has not confirmed which of its new submarines might receive the new propulsor technology.
The U.S. Navy uses pump-jet propulsor technology onboard its Improved Los Angeles, Seawolf and Virginia-class attack submarines. The U.S. Navy is also planning to use a pumpjet propulsor onboard its forthcoming Columbia-classnuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines. The Columbia-class will use integrated electrical propulsion with a permanent-magnet motor turning the submarine’s drive shaft.
Developing a shaftless propulsion system is something akin to the holy grail of submarine propulsion. U.S. naval experts are skeptical of the Chinese claims.
“I read this earlier this morning and concluded that the PLAN propaganda machine was busy on July 4th,” Bryan McGrath, managing director of the FerryBridge Group naval consultancy, told me.
But while McGrath is skeptical, if the Chinese claims prove to be true, it could be something significant.
“Yes, something...if genuine,” McGrath said.
“And there is no question in my mind that the undersea advantage we enjoy will come under increasing pressure from PLAN capabilities. But quieter that U.S. subs? No.”
Thus, if the Chinese have managed to successfully develop a rim-driven pumpjet propulsor that works in a real world operational setting, it would be a significant development. It would mean that the PLAN is making genuine progress in developing novel submarine technologies and that it is starting to catch up. But there is more to a submarine’s acoustical stealth than just the propulsion system, and it will take time and a lot of trial and error before the PLAN can match or exceed American capabilities in the undersea domain.
Dave Majumdar is the defense editor of The National Interest. You can follow him on Twitter @DaveMajumdar.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...e-the-holy-grail-submarine-technologies-21436
ChineseTiger1986
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China's own "Columbia class SSBN" is ready.
The Type 096 will soon patrol with 16 JL-3 SLBMs.
http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/tvv1Vzs0QNzRdXM3U3D9UQ
The Type 096 will soon patrol with 16 JL-3 SLBMs.
http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/tvv1Vzs0QNzRdXM3U3D9UQ
Deino
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Intersting but to admit between "will be launched" and "will soon patrol" lays most likely a difference of at least three years ! So why are some of You so much overenthusiastic which in return only leads to these replies You don't like so much aka that some simply don't take such posts seriously?
Akasa
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It hasn't even begun construction yet, as the submarine hall is not fully completed. There is no way it could be ready by this time.
ChineseTiger1986
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The JL-3 SLBM is already around the corner, and China always finished the boat before the missile.
ChineseTiger1986
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Four Type 094 SSBNs being simultaneously spotted in the dock.
samsara
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China's quantum submarine detector could seal South China Sea | New Scientist
22 August 2017
By David Hambling
On 21 June, the Chinese Academy of Sciences hailed a breakthrough – a major upgrade to a kind of quantum device that measures magnetic fields. The announcement vanished after a journalist pointed out the invention’s potential military implications: it could help China lock down the South China Sea.
“I was surprised by the removal,” says Stephen Chen of the South China Morning Post, who raised the issue. “I have been covering Chinese science for many years, and it is rare.”
Magnetometers have been used to detect submarines since the second world war. They are able to do this because they can measure an anomaly in Earth’s magnetic field – like one caused by a massive hunk of metal.
But today’s devices can only detect a submarine at fairly short range, so tend to be used to home in on the location once the sub has already been spotted on sonar.
Superconducting fix
You could widen their range if you had a magnetometer based on a superconducting quantum interference device, or SQUID. Superconducting magnetometers are exquisitely sensitive, but their promise has been limited to the lab. Out in the real world, they are quickly overwhelmed by background noise as minuscule as changes in Earth’s magnetic field caused by distant solar storms.
Given that level of sensitivity, you can forget about mounting such a sensor on an airplane, for example. The US Navy gave up work on superconducting magnetometers to pursue less sensitive but more mature technologies.
The new magnetometer, built by Xiaoming Xie and colleagues at the Shanghai Institute of Microsystem and Information Technology, uses not one SQUID but an array of them. The idea is that by comparing their readings, researchers can cancel out some of the extra artefacts generated by motion. This “would be relevant to an anti-submarine warfare device”, says David Caplin at Imperial College London, who works on magnetic sensors.
Although the announcement concerning Xie’s work has been removed, several of the previous papers culminating in this breakthrough are still available.
The achievement points to an airborne device that can detect submarines from several kilometres away rather than just a few hundred metres. This would be catastrophic for NATO submarines, which have been honed to run ever more quietly, using clever technology that prevents them from being heard or detected on sonar. Their magnetic signature is much harder to eliminate.
Noise problem
Could China soon have the most sensitive submarine detector in the world? No Western navies are known to have SQUID detectors.
Researchers estimate that a SQUID magnetometer of this type could detect a sub from 6 kilometres away, and Caplin says that with better noise suppression the range could be much greater.
Not everyone is convinced the Chinese magnetometer is ready for deployment. Cathy Foley at CSIRO, the Australian government research agency, says there are several difficulties with turning a SQUID into a sub-hunter – for example dealing with background magnetic noise. Nobody has yet solved all of these problems, although she says the rate of Chinese progress means they may well be first to succeed.
SQUIDs are only one of the ways that China has been upgrading its anti-submarine capability over the last few years. The “Underwater Great Wall”, a string of submerged sensors, buoys and drone submarines, is thought to be close to completion. The project will help China extend its offshore surveillance zone.
Beijing has long wanted to change the rules of engagement in its waters. Earlier this year it drafted new lawsrequiring any foreign submarine to get approval before entering Chinese waters, and once there, to stay surfaced and display its national flag. “Can the Chinese make these systems work reliably while in motion in the air or underwater? We’ll be watching their progress closely,” says Foley.
A shorter version of this article was published in New Scientist magazine on 26 August 2017
22 August 2017
By David Hambling
On 21 June, the Chinese Academy of Sciences hailed a breakthrough – a major upgrade to a kind of quantum device that measures magnetic fields. The announcement vanished after a journalist pointed out the invention’s potential military implications: it could help China lock down the South China Sea.
“I was surprised by the removal,” says Stephen Chen of the South China Morning Post, who raised the issue. “I have been covering Chinese science for many years, and it is rare.”
Magnetometers have been used to detect submarines since the second world war. They are able to do this because they can measure an anomaly in Earth’s magnetic field – like one caused by a massive hunk of metal.
But today’s devices can only detect a submarine at fairly short range, so tend to be used to home in on the location once the sub has already been spotted on sonar.
Superconducting fix
You could widen their range if you had a magnetometer based on a superconducting quantum interference device, or SQUID. Superconducting magnetometers are exquisitely sensitive, but their promise has been limited to the lab. Out in the real world, they are quickly overwhelmed by background noise as minuscule as changes in Earth’s magnetic field caused by distant solar storms.
Given that level of sensitivity, you can forget about mounting such a sensor on an airplane, for example. The US Navy gave up work on superconducting magnetometers to pursue less sensitive but more mature technologies.
The new magnetometer, built by Xiaoming Xie and colleagues at the Shanghai Institute of Microsystem and Information Technology, uses not one SQUID but an array of them. The idea is that by comparing their readings, researchers can cancel out some of the extra artefacts generated by motion. This “would be relevant to an anti-submarine warfare device”, says David Caplin at Imperial College London, who works on magnetic sensors.
Although the announcement concerning Xie’s work has been removed, several of the previous papers culminating in this breakthrough are still available.
The achievement points to an airborne device that can detect submarines from several kilometres away rather than just a few hundred metres. This would be catastrophic for NATO submarines, which have been honed to run ever more quietly, using clever technology that prevents them from being heard or detected on sonar. Their magnetic signature is much harder to eliminate.
Noise problem
Could China soon have the most sensitive submarine detector in the world? No Western navies are known to have SQUID detectors.
Researchers estimate that a SQUID magnetometer of this type could detect a sub from 6 kilometres away, and Caplin says that with better noise suppression the range could be much greater.
Not everyone is convinced the Chinese magnetometer is ready for deployment. Cathy Foley at CSIRO, the Australian government research agency, says there are several difficulties with turning a SQUID into a sub-hunter – for example dealing with background magnetic noise. Nobody has yet solved all of these problems, although she says the rate of Chinese progress means they may well be first to succeed.
SQUIDs are only one of the ways that China has been upgrading its anti-submarine capability over the last few years. The “Underwater Great Wall”, a string of submerged sensors, buoys and drone submarines, is thought to be close to completion. The project will help China extend its offshore surveillance zone.
Beijing has long wanted to change the rules of engagement in its waters. Earlier this year it drafted new lawsrequiring any foreign submarine to get approval before entering Chinese waters, and once there, to stay surfaced and display its national flag. “Can the Chinese make these systems work reliably while in motion in the air or underwater? We’ll be watching their progress closely,” says Foley.
A shorter version of this article was published in New Scientist magazine on 26 August 2017
ZeEa5KPul
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The Type 09-V has all the bells and whistles found on modern American submarines: IEPS and turbo-electric propulsion, passive reactor cooling, anechoic tiling, etc. China has also gained a lot of experience in precision manufacturing.
The noise level should be comparable to submarines like the Virginia.
Galactic Penguin SST
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Quantum communication test successful, good news for the Navy
August 29, 2017
Chinese scientists successfully tested quantum communication under the surface of the sea, marking a global breakthrough in such technology.
The experiment was conducted by Jin Xianmin, and his team from Shanghai Jiao Tong University. In their experiment, the team was able to conduct communication secured by quantum mechanics between two underwater points several hundred meters apart, Jin told reporters on Monday, adding that the team was also able to securely communicate with satellites and aircraft from a point several meters under the sea.
Quantum communication is ultra-secure as a quantum photon can neither be separated nor duplicated. Accordingly, it is impossible to wiretap, intercept or crack information it transmits.
Once operationalized, such technology is expected to come in handy in the field of military, finance, and public information safety, according to Jin.
To carry out the experiment, the team collected samples of saltwater from six sites in the Yellow Sea, which they placed in containers, to see whether variations in the water affect their results, Jin said.
A beam of light was then shot through a crystal, which split it into pairs of photons, which are connected at the sub-atomic or quantum level.
This means that the performance of the pair of particles is now linked, theoretically over any distance, allowing data to be transmitted between the two.
Jin said that although the floating matter and salt in the sea can result in the loss of photons, the research team found a window which can enable the photons to travel and hence preserve enough photons to securely communicate.
"Such windows can be spotted by commercial photon detectors," said Jin.
He noted that if the seawater, which covers more than 70 percent of the Earth, cannot be covered, the global quantum communication will remain incomplete.
"The quantum communication is highly secured and is free from interruptions, so solving the problem of underwater quantum communication is a good news for the Navy," Li Jie, a Beijing-based naval expert, told reporters on Monday.
However, according to Jin, the experiment is just the first step toward underwater quantum communication, and there is still a long way to go before a quantum communication network can be built incorporating both the sea and sky.
China has made several breakthroughs in the field of quantum communication in recent years.
Before Jin, a team from the University of Science and Technology of China led by Pan Jianwei, an academician with the Chinese Academy of Sciences, announced in July that they overcame the sunlight noise and demonstrated free-space quantum key distribution over 53 kilometers during the day.
China is striving to set up the first-ever global quantum communication network by around 2030, through linking a satellite constellation consisting of dozens of quantum satellites and ground-based quantum communication networks, according to Xinhua News Agency.
http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0829/c90000-9261766.html
August 29, 2017
Chinese scientists successfully tested quantum communication under the surface of the sea, marking a global breakthrough in such technology.
The experiment was conducted by Jin Xianmin, and his team from Shanghai Jiao Tong University. In their experiment, the team was able to conduct communication secured by quantum mechanics between two underwater points several hundred meters apart, Jin told reporters on Monday, adding that the team was also able to securely communicate with satellites and aircraft from a point several meters under the sea.
Quantum communication is ultra-secure as a quantum photon can neither be separated nor duplicated. Accordingly, it is impossible to wiretap, intercept or crack information it transmits.
Once operationalized, such technology is expected to come in handy in the field of military, finance, and public information safety, according to Jin.
To carry out the experiment, the team collected samples of saltwater from six sites in the Yellow Sea, which they placed in containers, to see whether variations in the water affect their results, Jin said.
A beam of light was then shot through a crystal, which split it into pairs of photons, which are connected at the sub-atomic or quantum level.
This means that the performance of the pair of particles is now linked, theoretically over any distance, allowing data to be transmitted between the two.
Jin said that although the floating matter and salt in the sea can result in the loss of photons, the research team found a window which can enable the photons to travel and hence preserve enough photons to securely communicate.
"Such windows can be spotted by commercial photon detectors," said Jin.
He noted that if the seawater, which covers more than 70 percent of the Earth, cannot be covered, the global quantum communication will remain incomplete.
"The quantum communication is highly secured and is free from interruptions, so solving the problem of underwater quantum communication is a good news for the Navy," Li Jie, a Beijing-based naval expert, told reporters on Monday.
However, according to Jin, the experiment is just the first step toward underwater quantum communication, and there is still a long way to go before a quantum communication network can be built incorporating both the sea and sky.
China has made several breakthroughs in the field of quantum communication in recent years.
Before Jin, a team from the University of Science and Technology of China led by Pan Jianwei, an academician with the Chinese Academy of Sciences, announced in July that they overcame the sunlight noise and demonstrated free-space quantum key distribution over 53 kilometers during the day.
China is striving to set up the first-ever global quantum communication network by around 2030, through linking a satellite constellation consisting of dozens of quantum satellites and ground-based quantum communication networks, according to Xinhua News Agency.
http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0829/c90000-9261766.html
samsara
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GOOD NEWS!!
Btw, about following standard line: "However, according to Jin, the experiment is just the first step toward underwater quantum communication, and there is still a long way to go before a quantum communication network can be built incorporating both the sea and sky."
Do you think the concerned party will make an announcement at duly time one day if the SEA quantum communication has been in operation linking the subs with the land nodes or subs with other subs etc?
Galactic Penguin SST
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GOOD NEWS!!
Btw, about following standard line: "However, according to Jin, the experiment is just the first step toward underwater quantum communication, and there is still a long way to go before a quantum communication network can be built incorporating both the sea and sky."
Do you think the concerned party will make an announcement at duly time one day if the SEA quantum communication has been in operation linking the subs with the land nodes or subs with other subs etc?
Undersea to undersea quantum communication can only be limited to several hundreds of meters due to the absorption of the water molecules, but undersea to space then back to undersea will of course allow distance of several thousands of kilometers, as the air molecule interact less with the single entangled photons.
Space to undersea communications experiments will require several experimental satellites to be launched before they could be conducted. First at short distance and then at ever greater distance. Just like the conventional satellite-to-submarine communications using laser data link.
Once the technology is declared mature enough, China will have to place into LEO (and GEO?) a small fleet of quantum communications satellites before it could beam entangled photons from the mainland to the SSNs operating in the Pacific Ocean or Indian Ocean, and this will take of course several years. Think of the Yaogan NOSS network. And for the public announcement part, China is already giving a coverage of its developments basically on a regular basis. The official stated date is 2030.
For the illustration, just replace the ISS with a quantum comsat, the two cupolas with two submerged submarines or a land based communication station and a submarine.
Note: from the published picture, it seems that the use of UUVs could even extend the operational range of the underwater to underwater link!
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grey boy 2
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