China's new 'carrier killer' for Pakistan's JF-17 Thunder fighter

[Rajput_Pakistani]

well brother i guess 100 are more than enof for PAF to handle rather i guess its an overkill cause one MKI as of now carries almost twice the number of BVRs and while flying inside indian airspace over say amritsar can engage an enemy aircraft as far as sarghoda and its onboard jammers can fry the radars of JF17 or even F-16 and soon it will have an ASEA with even bigger and better cpapbilities while using same ammount of power

The most stupid comment on a a purely technical matter.

Can you please elaborate these two points?

its onboard jammers can fry the radars of JF17 or even F-16

and FYI Sargodha is 170KMs from Lahore, now tell me what is the No Escape Zone for R-77? How can your MKI Search, Track and shoot down a plane at such a long range?

I am expecting a purely technical answer and if you dont have any then like a gentleman take back your idiotic remark. Thanks in advance

 

[GURU DUTT]

The most stupid comment on a a purely technical matter.

Can you please elaborate these two points?

its onboard jammers can fry the radars of JF17 or even F-16

and FYI Sargodha is 170KMs from Lahore, now tell me what is the No Escape Zone for R-77? How can your MKI Search, Track and shoot down a plane at such a long range?

I am expecting a purely technical answer and if you dont have any then like a gentleman take back your idiotic remark. Thanks in advance

well brother MKIs radar is huge and uses almost twice if not thrice the power & is way way more potent than you ever imagined + its not the R77 alone that you have to worry now there are others aswell in the game now


well brother your plane wont be in statick place i guess it will be coming at us with Mach 1+ speed

bhai im not a very technical person i know you are going to make fun of it by pointing owt very minute details but nevertheless thing is PAF is no match for IAF now in almost all the parameters of the modern combat scenario ...deal with it and go ask your establishment for these massive delays

thread is about can JF 17s with its devine pilots and earth shaterring alien teck BVRs & so called "carrier killers" can counter indian CBGs well the answer is no cause to reach the CBG they will need a lot of feul which they ant as of now deu to there limited capabilities and the numeber of obstakels in there path which cannot be ignoared

and above all we dont need CBGs to block your sea lanes as a couple of P8is and same number of phalcons and a couple of squads of jags and MKIs will do the job for us and that too land based as the farthest pakistani target we need to destroy is 250KMs while owr super sonik cruise missile bhramos has a range of 290 KMs and will detroy any target in its range even before you could track it

so chill buddy

 

[slapshot]

Didn't say it was invincible, just really tough to sink it.

Yep. They are hard to make and harder to sink. During WAR sinking the AC is not required at all, you just need to make sure to paralyze the operation. Even if the missile hits flight deck and puts hold on flight operations that would considered job done. AC are quite a liability that's why they need number of security measures around them.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

well brother MKIs radar is huge and uses almost twice if not thrice the power & is way way more potent than you ever imagined + its not the R77 alone that you have to worry now there are others aswell in the game now


well brother your plane wont be in statick place i guess it will be coming at us with Mach 1+ speed

bhai im not a very technical person i know you are going to make fun of it by pointing owt very minute details but nevertheless thing is PAF is no match for IAF now in almost all the parameters of the modern combat scenario ...deal with it and go ask your establishment for these massive delays

thread is about can JF 17s with its devine pilots and earth shaterring alien teck BVRs & so called "carrier killers" can counter indian CBGs well the answer is no cause to reach the CBG they will need a lot of feul which they ant as of now deu to there limited capabilities and the numeber of obstakels in there path which cannot be ignoared

and above all we dont need CBGs to block your sea lanes as a couple of P8is and same number of phalcons and a couple of squads of jags and MKIs will do the job for us and that too land based as the farthest pakistani target we need to destroy is 250KMs while owr super sonik cruise missile bhramos has a range of 290 KMs and will detroy any target in its range even before you could track it

so chill buddy

I am chill dear. Peace.
I will not point out any thing from your post. I am just saying that patriotism is good thing but on a purely technical issue one needs to be quite accurate. We all are here to share our knowledge and to gain something. Coming back to the topic, we only know some specs of CM-400. No one know the entire details. No one know how, when and under what circumstances PAF will use this weapon. We also dont know what are the counter-measures in place by Indians to prevent such attack. In war the scenarios are very different. How can you say that all the P8-Is and Migs will be there and then when required? How many CM-400 will be fired in a Salvo? Its just a weapon. On the day it will either prove its worth or fail. Its just like that even 16th century gun can klill a man even in 21st century. The question is how and when it will be used. What if the purpose of CM-400 is to just a deterrence? Just to keep Indian naval ships at bay? In the war, when will Indian planners will feel safe enough to station their prize Ship at the coast of Pakistan? So its a huge topic beyond the scope of me, you and many other keyboard intellectuals out here.

 

[Jf Thunder]

well brother your confidence is commendable but saying "alhmadulillah" dosent dilutes the threat as it is not 1965 its 2013-2014 almost 50 years and during that time all the parameteres have changed so has the cabilities of your mortal enemy=IAF/India

cause in 1965 big daddy USA was at your full support you got the cutting latest edge tech & training from them then but right now we are getting the same + you cant match us either in numbers , technology or training/inter national exposer of pilots which you once enjoyed and which we have with us thanks to friends like Israel, singapore , japan,france, USA & Russia with whome owr pilots exersize and intaract on regular basis and share the latest tech inputs and owr pilots clock way above 250+ flying hours per annum while you cant even let your pilots fly for more than 150 flying hours per annum

thing is flying machines , BVRs , Radars , EW suites & training and in all these parameters we are at least a decade ahead of you and have mastered the MKI, M2K & Migs while it will take at least a decade or more for your devine pilots to master JF17 or J10Bs in future

so brother stop living in denial and exploits of people at least two generations back...ask people like mastan khan and DOB they will tell you the ground reality

as for your F16s well yours are best of blk 52 which can be taken on easily my owr MIGs & M2K alone and are larger in numbers aswell + we have the best inputs from Israelies about all the minute details and takticks to counter your F16s

so chill buddy and try not to be gressive with us or you know what ground reality is ...dont you

well that's what you people said when we went to war in 1965, and and don't flatter yourself, the f 86 saber was a very old plane as compared to yours and you still had your friends even then, and i suppose if something happens this time or we wipe out your air force i presume you will then repeat these sentences by saying that PAF was better trained had better equipment etc so i wish you best of luck in your dreams because that is the only place where you truly win, considering your size and population you should have taken us in 1965, even if all of your people start walking towards us they will run us over. but i wonder what stopped you? and don't forget you are not the only country which is developing we are developing too the ratio is still pretty much the same, but hey? at least we gave you a show of our strength that now you are on your toes? that's gotta be worth something?

 

[GURU DUTT]

I am chill dear. Peace.
I will not point out any thing from your post. I am just saying that patriotism is good thing but on a purely technical issue one needs to be quite accurate. We all are here to share our knowledge and to gain something. Coming back to the topic, we only know some specs of CM-400. No one know the entire details. No one know how, when and under what circumstances PAF will use this weapon. We also dont know what are the counter-measures in place by Indians to prevent such attack. In war the scenarios are very different. How can you say that all the P8-Is and Migs will be there and then when required? How many CM-400 will be fired in a Salvo? Its just a weapon. On the day it will either prove its worth or fail. Its just like that even 16th century gun can klill a man even in 21st century. The question is how and when it will be used. What if the purpose of CM-400 is to just a deterrence? Just to keep Indian naval ships at bay? In the war, when will Indian planners will feel safe enough to station their prize Ship at the coast of Pakistan? So its a huge topic beyond the scope of me, you and many other keyboard intellectuals out here.

thanks brother for a very well written and sane answer im not a warmonger or an so called "intellectual" ....lolzzz im a joke on PDF for stupid spelling mistakes

you are right that a 16th century gun can kill a man in 21st century but the thing is it will be too bulki and visble and will kill the elemnt of surprize and not to forget the modern man has many aids and changes to survive if ever faced agisnt it unless hes standing in front of firing squad ...now your JF17s and ther carrier killers unforteunatelli have the same dilemma of a soldier carrieng a 16th century gun to modern batle field now your guess is good as mine what are the ods he faces to win the bettle

as for the CM-400 being used as i said before we dont need to bring any of owr warships at least 500 KM near your coastline to block your sea lanes as owr land based assets are good enof to put fear in minds of your navy to come owt in open sea

thats why i said there is no way you could carry those missiles anywhere near owr ships before being gun downed a it will have to carry more feul than wepons and with that its security and chances to survive a counter attack dimnishes very drastically and your enemy will not risk its AWACS to go owt of the pakistani air space into the open seas casue if that happens you will need at least one squad for fighting and one squad for carriendg the merchendise and the biggest catch here is that you dont have the numbers

so my freind its not just the sea based assets you have to worry even if you send 2 squads of Blk 2 JF17s for the job one land based squad of MKI say one of pune or baroda will be more than enof

so the thing are odd are almost 2/100 to survive in such a scenario and i dought the heads in PAF will ever take such a risk

 

[GURU DUTT]

well that's what you people said when we went to war in 1965, and and don't flatter yourself, the f 86 saber was a very old plane as compared to yours and you still had your friends even then, and i suppose if something happens this time or we wipe out your air force i presume you will then repeat these sentences by saying that PAF was better trained had better equipment etc so i wish you best of luck in your dreams because that is the only place where you truly win, considering your size and population you should have taken us in 1965, even if all of your people start walking towards us they will run us over. but i wonder what stopped you? and don't forget you are not the only country which is developing we are developing too the ratio is still pretty much the same, but hey? at least we gave you a show of our strength that now you are on your toes? that's gotta be worth something?

well buddy unlike pakistani genrals we dint wanted to capture any lands other wise we could have merged bangladesh into india in 1971 itself hope that clears your dought why we spared you

as for 1965 sirji every war has a benfit to get but did you got why you started the war and every one knows who & whu\y went running to tashkent after USA snubbed pakistan after the war in 1965

thing also here to remeber is that we indians learn and adapt very fast thats why we survived 800 years of muslim rule and stillare living and practising the same relegeon which we did before invadres from central asian countries came

same thing went into practise as soon as we learned your strenths and weaknesses in pervious wars and even impelemnted it in siachin and kargil and even 26/11 to get most benfits by scarifising a few things and you still are paying the price for the same ..ever wondered why

now if you try to start a so called "4th war" to take what you think is yurs then just dont forget what we have in store for you right now and more goddies are to follow in future

so my pakistani freind thing is you cant be agressive with india and get away with it this time as USA (who always saved you) is not by your side any more and its interests in you are getting dileuted by each passing day we will see you when fat lady sings

till then enjoy buddy

 

[graphican]

Didn't say it was invincible, just really tough to sink it.

Sir, what if we bring in the matrix of crew survive-ability and potency here? What if Ship's radar system and/or engines are destroyed which I think are within "doable" range as you may term it. In the battle-field, we never 'sink' the tank but making it immobilize-able is its effective 'death'.

What are your thoughts on dis-functional aircraft carrier here? Also if it is war, why cannot carriers be attacked with depleted uranium warheads (ignore knowledge about these types) or even a tactical low-yield nuclear bomb?

 

[Oldman1]

well i guess we will have to zero down your air force a bit quickly then, no?


well then lets not sink the ACC then shall we? we will just take out the planes sitting on it

Chances are the dozens of fighter planes will already be in the air going after who ever is firing the cruise missiles in the first place. Ever considered that? Carriers are offensive platforms as well.

Sir, what if we bring in the matrix of crew survive-ability and potency here? What if Ship's radar system and/or engines are destroyed which I think are within "doable" range as you may term it. In the battle-field, we never 'sink' the tank but making it immobilize-able is its effective 'death'.

What are your thoughts on dis-functional aircraft carrier here? Also if it is war, why cannot carriers be attacked with depleted uranium warheads (ignore knowledge about these types) or even a tactical low-yield nuclear bomb?

In other words you just damage a carrier which will be repaired and will come back and killed more enemies. Causing them to regret not sinking them in the first place. And if you use nuclear weapons, you just change the game where the U.S. Navy will unleashed hell.

Yep. They are hard to make and harder to sink. During WAR sinking the AC is not required at all, you just need to make sure to paralyze the operation. Even if the missile hits flight deck and puts hold on flight operations that would considered job done. AC are quite a liability that's why they need number of security measures around them.

As I said before carriers can be repaired.
USS Enterprise (CV-6) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Enterprise suffered most heavily of the American ships; three direct hits and four near misses killed 77, wounded 91, and inflicted serious damage on the carrier. Quick, hard work by damage control parties patched her up so that she was able to return to Hawaii under her own power.
Repaired at Pearl Harbor from 10 September-16 October 1942, Enterprise departed once more for the South Pacific, where with Hornet she formed TF 61. On 26 October, Enterprise scout planes located a Japanese carrier force and the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands was under way. Enterprise aircraft struck carriers and cruisers during the struggle, while the "Big E" herself underwent intensive attack. Hit twice by bombs, Enterprise lost 44 men and had 75 wounded. Despite serious damage, she continued in action and took on board a large number of planes and crewmen from Hornet when that carrier was sunk. Though the American losses of a carrier and a destroyer were more severe than the Japanese loss of one light cruiser, the battle gained time to reinforce Guadalcanal against the next enemy onslaught, and nearby Henderson Field was therefore secure from the Japanese bombardment. The loss of the Hornet meant Enterprise was now the only functioning (albeit damaged) US carrier in the Pacific Theater. [4]On the flight deck, the crew posted a sign: "Enterprise vs Japan."

 

[Oldman1]

they are not firing any anti ship missile it is an
AGM-65 Maverick
mainly used against tanks
considering that the missile is so small
that damage is substantial, an actual anti ship missile will cause damage orders of magnitude greater that this
as far uss cole is concerned you cant compare a suicide boat with a missile
even so the attack killed 17 sailors and injured 39
the ship was out of service for about 3 years

Oh yes emphasis on the usage of the Maverick missile and ignore the usage of Harpoons and bombs as well. By the way the Cole was out of action for only 14 months. Not 3 years. And there was no urgency to repair it so soon since we were not in a total war compare to lets say WW2 where the Franklin was even more worst shape and was repaired in 4 months.

 

[Jf Thunder]

well buddy unlike pakistani genrals we dint wanted to capture any lands other wise we could have merged bangladesh into india in 1971 itself hope that clears your dought why we spared you

as for 1965 sirji every war has a benfit to get but did you got why you started the war and every one knows who & whu\y went running to tashkent after USA snubbed pakistan after the war in 1965

thing also here to remeber is that we indians learn and adapt very fast thats why we survived 800 years of muslim rule and stillare living and practising the same relegeon which we did before invadres from central asian countries came

same thing went into practise as soon as we learned your strenths and weaknesses in pervious wars and even impelemnted it in siachin and kargil and even 26/11 to get most benfits by scarifising a few things and you still are paying the price for the same ..ever wondered why

now if you try to start a so called "4th war" to take what you think is yurs then just dont forget what we have in store for you right now and more goddies are to follow in future

so my pakistani freind thing is you cant be agressive with india and get away with it this time as USA (who always saved you) is not by your side any more and its interests in you are getting dileuted by each passing day we will see you when fat lady sings

till then enjoy buddy

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

wow that made me laugh real hard in real lol, you "spared" us? lol you were suffering the same consequences of the war as us, and you were eager to end the war just like us lol.
dude, 1965 didn't give you much too chew on also ._. your attack on Lahore and Sialkot were successfully repulsed, and you know what? if you have developed, so have we, do not treat us inferior to yourselves WE ARE A NUCLEAR POWER TOO (Alhamdullillah) so i suggest you keep the thing in capital letters in mind, and here is a quote i stole from a movie
"if you think that we cant protect Pakistan, you can damn welll be sure we will avenge it"

 

[GURU DUTT]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

wow that made me laugh real hard in real lol, you "spared" us? lol you were suffering the same consequences of the war as us, and you were eager to end the war just like us lol.
dude, 1965 didn't give you much too chew on also ._. your attack on Lahore and Sialkot were successfully repulsed, and you know what? if you have developed, so have we, do not treat us inferior to yourselves WE ARE A NUCLEAR POWER TOO (Alhamdullillah) so i suggest you keep the thing in capital letters in mind, and here is a quote i stole from a movie
"if you think that we cant protect Pakistan, you can damn welll be sure we will avenge it"

well good luck then but the thing is we are strong and you are weak not just weak millitarrilly but economicalli and no one trusts your nation and people any where in the world not even in so called "ummah" & china they just use and throw you like USA has been doing with you in last 50 years thing is we dont need to invade or kill you all we have to do is prolong your misery and keep you negaged with non issues rest you will finish for us yourself

 

[Jf Thunder]

Chances are the dozens of fighter planes will already be in the air going after who ever is firing the cruise missiles in the first place. Ever considered that? Carriers are offensive platforms as well.

why do you people think that we will be sleeping? honestly if we see a dozen planes coming we will be lying there saying "oh look more biridis" we will retaliate by sending in more planes duh.

In other words you just damage a carrier which will be repaired and will come back and killed more enemies. Causing them to regret not sinking them in the first place. And if you use nuclear weapons, you just change the game where the U.S. Navy will unleashed hell.

yes and if the U.S Navy comes and then the Taliban will come to unleash hell on the US Navy, the US is already suffering due to its current war i seriously doubt it would want to open another battle field, and i highly doubt an Indo Pak war will last long enough to allow so much time so that air craft carrier can come back.
.

well good luck then but the thing is we are strong and you are weak not just weak millitarrilly but economicalli and no one trusts your nation and people any where in the world not even in so called "ummah" & china they just use and throw you like USA has been doing with you in last 50 years thing is we dont need to invade or kill you all we have to do is prolong your misery and keep you negaged with non issues rest you will finish for us yourself

finally what was in your heart came to your tongue, so it all comes down to this, India is strong, Pakistan is weak, if we are so weak then why did a few threats in 1981 cause you to get scared and not attack our Kahuta Research Labs?

 

[Oldman1]

why do you people think that we will be sleeping? honestly if we see a dozen planes coming we will be lying there saying "oh look more biridis" we will retaliate by sending in more planes duh.



yes and if the U.S Navy comes and then the Taliban will come to unleash hell on the US Navy, the US is already suffering due to its current war i seriously doubt it would want to open another battle field, and i highly doubt an Indo Pak war will last long enough to allow so much time so that air craft carrier can come back.
.


finally what was in your heart came to your tongue, so it all comes down to this, India is strong, Pakistan is weak, if we are so weak then why did a few threats in 1981 cause you to get scared and not attack our Kahuta Research Labs?

And we can send in more planes. We have enough firepower, technology and training to overwhelm the Pakistani Air Force there is no doubt. Actually you would have nothing to launch after destruction of Pakistani Navy and Air Force.

Besides the Afghan war the U.S. Navy hardly has suffered from that conflict since its mostly Marines and Army. If the Indo-Pak war hasn't last long, then God forbid it doesn't happen because most likely millions have been killed.

 

[GURU DUTT]

why do you people think that we will be sleeping? honestly if we see a dozen planes coming we will be lying there saying "oh look more biridis" we will retaliate by sending in more planes duh.



yes and if the U.S Navy comes and then the Taliban will come to unleash hell on the US Navy, the US is already suffering due to its current war i seriously doubt it would want to open another battle field, and i highly doubt an Indo Pak war will last long enough to allow so much time so that air craft carrier can come back.
.

look wise guy he is talking about war in open seas thatmeans airplanes fighting in no mans land at least 400+Kms(where CBG will be based) from your coast line

to reach there you need at least 2 squads of JF 17 with at least three 1200 litre feul tanks each so its wepons carrying capacity decreeses big time and there will be no AWACs to complement them while the indian CBG will have at least 6 K 31 heli borne AWACs which will pinpoint you & engage and alert the MIG29Ks way before you get at least 300 KM near the CBG while your planes will be tracked (from land based indian radars)and all owr assets given a go ahead to engage your offensive asstets and will be killed wellbefore you are in any serious position + not to forget those 8 MIG 29s specially kept for this very purpose on indian CBG aart from the other 20 for other pupose


hope you get the point sir