China's new 'carrier killer' for Pakistan's JF-17 Thunder fighter

[Jf Thunder]

well heres a scenario

india and pakistan are at war and indian navy is given the task to block your sea lines

now the question is how

answer is simple a squad of SU-30MKI at baroda lainches a attack on karachi and gadawar and dessimates all the naval ships of PN standing there and the second wave of jags finishes the job

well the things are not that easy but not that difficult aswell for india ause

1. all of your Air force will be monitored and all your actions will be tracked and followed very closeli by the indian ground based radars which even today scan all pakistani airspace as much as untill the hindukush ranges

2.All pakistani airforce will be bizzi in fighting and keeping indian iar force at bay where on earth will they be able to spare a squad of your almighty JF17s to diliver there define CM-400 and other so called carrier killers cause

a. there are at least 12 squads(240) of fighters on owr western border to keep PAF bizzi that includes

2 squads of M2k
2squads of MIG29
5squads of MKI
3squads of Jaguars

b. besudes this 3 dedicated phalcon AWACS platforms will keep even a better eye on PAF

c.round the clock Spy SAT cover(both israeli & indian + a few inputs from russian and americans aswell) will keep even a better eye on all you movements

d. every CBG will have at least 1 squad ok Mig 29K + 6 K25 & K31 ASW & AWAC helicopters backed by there own radars and anty aircraft missile systems

3. what about other ships of indian navy do you realli think they will stay away form the party

well brother thing is there is nothing you can do to take on owr CBGs they are not for you

well i guess we will have to zero down your air force a bit quickly then, no?

Didn't say it was invincible, just really tough to sink it.

well then lets not sink the ACC then shall we? we will just take out the planes sitting on it

 

[GURU DUTT]

well i guess we will have to zero down your air force a bit quickly then, no?

well brother to zero down owr airforce is no way in your capability as of now or in near future why

well all pakistan has now or in couple of years will be

F-16 :16 blk 52+ 40 Mlu
JH17: 60-80
50 each of mirages & F-7
Total: 216-236
backed by 4 chinese made & 2 eyewire AWACS+3 mid air refeulers

as aginst

150 Jags+100 MKIs+40 M2K+40 MIG29 ......Total : 330

backed by 6 Mid air refeulers & 3 Phalcon AWACs

not to forget that if you try to be agressive there is a whole armada ofAA batteries backed again by 3D & 4D ASEA based ground & aerostat radars + Spy Sat cover

 

[OrionHunter]

Might sound like an idiotic question, but here goes: What if many smaller cruise missiles are used to rain on the deck and effectively destroy the runway of an Aircraft Carrier? How easy is it to repair a bombed runway in-situ? I've read that a Kamikaze attack on the USS Franklin had sent it out of action for 4 months.

Firstly there are no Kamikazis nowadays!! If if they were, AA defences would have shot them out to hell even before they had a chance of coming within 20 miles of the carrier!

Secondly, you must remember that an AC never operates alone. There is a fully armed Carrier Battle/Strike Group that supports it. These have a huge arsenal of missiles and aircraft to neutralize incoming missiles apart from the anti missile defences integral to the AC.

Another little known aspect is that carriers are easier to disable than out-rightly sink, since they have thousands of independent watertight compartments. If a carrier actually were hit by anything less powerful than a nuclear weapon, it could absorb the damage and continue operating in some diminished capacity; it almost certainly would not be sunk.

 

[Viper 94]

Let me show you something. This is not a carrier but an old U.S. destroyer and how much punishment it took. You have to remember the U.S. warships have been hit by anti-ship missiles before and survived for example USS Stark and Liberty. Even Al Qaeda suicide boat that caused a 40 ft gap in the Cole and still didn't sink it.

they are not firing any anti ship missile it is an
AGM-65 Maverick
mainly used against tanks
considering that the missile is so small
that damage is substantial, an actual anti ship missile will cause damage orders of magnitude greater that this
as far uss cole is concerned you cant compare a suicide boat with a missile
even so the attack killed 17 sailors and injured 39
the ship was out of service for about 3 years

 

[Indischer]

Firstly there are no Kamikazis nowadays!! If if they were, AA defences would have shot them out to hell even before they had a chance of coming within 20 miles of the carrier!

Secondly, you must remember that an AC never operates alone. There is a fully armed Carrier Battle/Strike Group that supports it. These have a huge arsenal of missiles and aircraft to neutralize incoming missiles apart from the anti missile defences integral to the AC.

Another little known aspect is that carriers are easier to disable than out-rightly sink, since they have thousands of independent watertight compartments. If a carrier actually were hit by anything less powerful than a nuclear weapon, it could absorb the damage and continue operating in some diminished capacity; it almost certainly would not be sunk.

I quoted the Kamikaze attack only to suggest the effects of limited damage onto the decks of aircraft carriers. I am also aware(in a limited way albeit) of how tightly defended CBGs are. Hence, I was specific about a volley of many cruise missiles (of the Shaurya type, not DF 21s)hitting the deck of an A C. Oldman1 here suggested that any such damage to the deck will be easily repaired in-situ. You too seem to share his views.

What if the aircraft lifts are disabled beyond repair by one or more such hits? I guess there will be more than one lift to ensure redundancy, but aren't such simple factors a major concern during battle? Many modern appraisals seem to paint the Aircraft carriers in negative light due to such concerns.

 

[gslv mk3]

you do realize that jf-17 would also carry sd-10 bvr missiles
or be escorted by f-16s with amraams
also there will be awacs aircraft continuously communicating with the strike package
so the game is not over that easily

And do you realise that with a longer range radar,the mig would see the JF 17s first?
And F 16s,depends on mood of Americans,you know that?
Continous AWACS coverage?with Erieye/ZDK? Sorry,what is the radar range?
And what about combat radius of JF 17? And that too with CM400 AKG?

 

[Basel]

IN fleet is very formidable and it is very potent too, but PN is not sleeping they are behind in tech and resources but they know who they have to face, and for those ppl who think that they only had satellite coverage and net centric stuff and PN will not have them then they are living in fools heaven because China provides access to stuff that many don't even know.

The disclosed agreement between China and Pakistan regarding space tech n specially chinese beidou navigation satellite system have Indian ppl heard it? do u think it is the only collaboration we had, buddy its tip of the ice berg and many don't know what resources China will provide us in case of conflict with India because China will never want India to standing eye to eye with them as western pawn power against them.

 

[OrionHunter]

I quoted the Kamikaze attack only to suggest the effects of limited damage onto the decks of aircraft carriers. I am also aware(in a limited way albeit) of how tightly defended CBGs are. Hence, I was specific about a volley of many cruise missiles (of the Shaurya type, not DF 21s)hitting the deck of an A C. Oldman1 here suggested that any such damage to the deck will be easily repaired in-situ. You too seem to share his views.

What if the aircraft lifts are disabled beyond repair by one or more such hits? I guess there will be more than one lift to ensure redundancy, but aren't such simple factors a major concern during battle? Many modern appraisals seem to paint the Aircraft carriers in negative light due to such concerns.

I fully agree. No system in this world is damage proof! But what I wanted to stress is that it would be extremely difficult to destroy an AC. Disabling it is slightly easier!

 

[Basel]

I fully agree. No system in this world is damage proof! But what I wanted to stress is that it would be extremely difficult to destroy an AC. Disabling it is slightly easier!

Destroying ACC may not be PN or any other Navy's task who will face them, the primary job for PN is to keep them far way by sea denial or if war broke out damage them enough so they remain out of service during war.

 

[Viper 94]

And do you realise that with a longer range radar,the mig would see the JF 17s first?
And F 16s,depends on mood of Americans,you know that?
Continous AWACS coverage?with Erieye/ZDK? Sorry,what is the radar range?
And what about combat radius of JF 17? And that too with CM400 AKG?

it doesnt matter that mig's radar has a longer detection range, jf-17 will also know of any air threats through information given by awacs
jf-17 may also carry
BM/KG300G jamming pod
and sd-10 has a range of 75 -100 km
r-77 used by mig has similar range
jf-17 will release the missile 250+ km away out of the range of r-77 missile
and in 3 mins the missile will reach the target
jf-17 will be inside pakistan airspace

 

[GURU DUTT]

it doesnt matter that mig's radar has a longer detection range, jf-17 will also know of any air threats through information given by awacs
jf-17 may also carry
BM/KG300G jamming pod
and sd-10 has a range of 75 -100 km
r-77 used by mig has similar range
jf-17 will release the missile 250+ km away out of the range of r-77 missile
and in 3 mins the missile will reach the target
jf-17 will be inside pakistan airspace

well buddy thing is even before your JF -17 releases its gods gift to aviation its super duper BVRs do you know that they were /will be all along tracked by indian ground based radars & even before they are in firing position a few BVRs from indian MKIs & MIGs will already be targeting them cause the thread is about CBGs and dont forget indian planes have much superior EW suits and Jammers which can jam all your airborn radars so buddy taking on IAF is not so easy task otherwise PLAAF would have crossed the indian airspace very long time back theres a catch why they are stying away from direct confrontation with IAF ever wondered why

any way good luck

 

[danger007]

well brother to zero down owr airforce is no way in your capability as of now or in near future why

well all pakistan has now or in couple of years will be

F-16 :16 blk 52+ 40 Mlu
JH17: 60-80
50 each of mirages & F-7
Total: 216-236
backed by 4 chinese made & 2 eyewire AWACS+3 mid air refeulers

as aginst

150 Jags+100 MKIs+40 M2K+40 MIG29 ......Total : 330

backed by 6 Mid air refeulers & 3 Phalcon AWACs

not to forget that if you try to be agressive there is a whole armada ofAA batteries backed again by 3D & 4D ASEA based ground & aerostat radars + Spy Sat cover

Correction we got 160 to 170 MKI... not 100

 

[Jf Thunder]

well buddy thing is even before your JF -17 releases its gods gift to aviation its super duper BVRs do you know that they were /will be all along tracked by indian ground based radars & even before they are in firing position a few BVRs from indian MKIs & MIGs will already be targeting them cause the thread is about CBGs and dont forget indian planes have much superior EW suits and Jammers which can jam all your airborn radars so buddy taking on IAF is not so easy task otherwise PLAAF would have crossed the indian airspace very long time back theres a catch why they are stying away from direct confrontation with IAF ever wondered why

any way good luck

dude, it does not depend on the air craft it depends on the pilot and Alhamdulillah our pilots are world class, remember the war of 1965, Wikipedia says
"During the last days of the war Pakistani aircraft flew over Indian cities and airbases without any response from the opposing side. At the end of the war, India had lost 110 aircraft with 19 damaged, not including those destroyed on the ground at night, against a loss of 16 PAF planes."

and also are for forgetting our two war trophies? the Folland Gnat? and don't forget the fighter we seized on the Runn of Kutch issue? At least our pilots don't surrender planes Alhmadulillah

 

[GURU DUTT]

Correction we got 160 to 170 MKI... not 100

well brother i guess 100 are more than enof for PAF to handle rather i guess its an overkill cause one MKI as of now carries almost twice the number of BVRs and while flying inside indian airspace over say amritsar can engage an enemy aircraft as far as sarghoda and its onboard jammers can fry the radars of JF17 or even F-16 and soon it will have an ASEA with even bigger and better cpapbilities while using same ammount of power

 

[GURU DUTT]

dude, it does not depend on the air craft it depends on the pilot and Alhamdulillah our pilots are world class, remember the war of 1965, Wikipedia says
"During the last days of the war Pakistani aircraft flew over Indian cities and airbases without any response from the opposing side. At the end of the war, India had lost 110 aircraft with 19 damaged, not including those destroyed on the ground at night, against a loss of 16 PAF planes."

and also are for forgetting our two war trophies? the Folland Gnat? and don't forget the fighter we seized on the Runn of Kutch issue? At least our pilots don't surrender planes Alhmadulillah

well brother your confidence is commendable but saying "alhmadulillah" dosent dilutes the threat as it is not 1965 its 2013-2014 almost 50 years and during that time all the parameteres have changed so has the cabilities of your mortal enemy=IAF/India

cause in 1965 big daddy USA was at your full support you got the cutting latest edge tech & training from them then but right now we are getting the same + you cant match us either in numbers , technology or training/inter national exposer of pilots which you once enjoyed and which we have with us thanks to friends like Israel, singapore , japan,france, USA & Russia with whome owr pilots exersize and intaract on regular basis and share the latest tech inputs and owr pilots clock way above 250+ flying hours per annum while you cant even let your pilots fly for more than 150 flying hours per annum

thing is flying machines , BVRs , Radars , EW suites & training and in all these parameters we are at least a decade ahead of you and have mastered the MKI, M2K & Migs while it will take at least a decade or more for your devine pilots to master JF17 or J10Bs in future

so brother stop living in denial and exploits of people at least two generations back...ask people like mastan khan and DOB they will tell you the ground reality

as for your F16s well yours are best of blk 52 which can be taken on easily my owr MIGs & M2K alone and are larger in numbers aswell + we have the best inputs from Israelies about all the minute details and takticks to counter your F16s

so chill buddy and try not to be gressive with us or you know what ground reality is ...dont you