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China's huge military advantages against US

The op never heard jsow, jsom, taurus kepd, and other stand off misiles.


Notwithstanding with reality, US and her allies is capable to launch a conventional decapited surgical strike against china without the latter capable to retaliate properly. Hence the PLAAF is in need to build such a preventive measures like building underground bunker to prevent their fleets to be obliterated at first minute of shooting works.

Fortunately the guys in charge in PLA is mostly rational and knowing their own capability unlike some fanboys who acknowledge himself as achair general. LoL



Its very true,

No one can dare the mighty China. OMG we all is afraid of them

But in reality is dictate otherwise

China is yet to show her stand off capability. The Russian has proven themselves to the world for acquiring this capability.

Second Chinese navy is still lacking in the face of joint US-JMSDF for air defence umbrella and long range engagement. Not to mention other US ally who will eagerly to joint the fray to test their newly acquired capability like Royal Navy and French Navy

Third. India and Vietnam factor

The Core of US navy is always the Double Team between E-2D and EA-18G, where one look for the enemy and the other one blinding them. It does not matter how mighty with J-20, both for real or on paper. The notion that US carrier needs to enter Chinese Coast to operate their aircraft is first, laughable, second, idiotic. And with Both E-2D and EA-18G, the Navy can basically punch thru any obstacle and when we start putting other stuff into the fray, such as F-35B/C, F-22 and even Legacy Fighter as well as Sea/Ground Base AA platform, the odds would turn into US favour in seconds.

On another note, RAAF (Oz Air Force) have acquired the EA-18G Growler Aircraft, it would be interesting to see Indonesian Su-35 up against this on future exercise, we need to see how the Growler works out against 4.5G aircraft :)

How would they stop US planes from taking off? Shoot them down?

Frankly you can argue it leaves them open to retaliation but at the end of the day its in the US interest to bring in other countries against China and China's interest to prevent that.

Also unrelated, if we are including J-20 in this discussion we really have to include the F-35, as it is farther along in development.

Its sensor fusion capabilities could do wonders at enhancing the effectiveness of legacy jets and F-22's in Taiwanese airspace.

Having an integrated view of the battlespace is very important.

Plus if they are travelling with legacy fighters wouldn't pilots tend to focus on the higher rcs F-18 they can see vs the F-35 or F-22 they cant?

This is gonna change the battlespace soon

85-1570_002.jpg


QF-16, the ultimate target drone with a Payload of an F-16....
 
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Look at the map. China has at least 40 airbases. The US only has seven.

As I had mentioned previously, China has 41 underground airbases. The US has none. This means US oil tanks can be easily destroyed. You can't fight a war without access to jet fuel, munition supplies, or repair facilities.
Source: Assessing PLA Underground Air Basing Capability

Let's just assume the US has access to jet fuel. How does the US intend to refuel F-22s in the air? China can easily shoot down the KC-135 tankers. Without air refueling, the short-legged F-22 (with a combat radius of 400 nautical miles) will never reach the battlefield.

The United States needs 63 KC-135 tankers that fly 86 sorties per day. Squadrons of Chinese J-20 stealth fighters (with a combat radius of 1,200 nautical miles) can easily shoot down the KC-135 tankers. Without tankers, the war is over for the F-22s.
This is stupid.

Air refueling is a combat tactic on its own and one that the PLA have no experience with, as we remind you of that. You are under the misconception that there are a few tankers constantly on stations. YOU ARE WRONG. Unlike you, the USAF is not that stupid. The scheduling for air tankers are highly coordinated to maximize the numbers of fighters one tanker can service in the shortest time on station. Those orbits are unknown and would be outside of ground based radars on mainland China, which would be either destroyed or degraded on day one from high altitude B-2s and low altitude B-1s.

China's underground bases ? Access would be either denied or restricted from the same B-1s and B-2s.

The J-20s ? As I posted in the past that the US have effectively defeated 'stealth', if you want to bring in the J-20, the USN's F-35s will shoot them out of the sky long before each J-20 pilot can begin to search for the tankers.

The US have always have the mentality of fighting from a numerically inferior position and with our real world combat experience, your PLA WILL lose.
 
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@gambit @jhungary do you think the US will risk a full scale War with a Nuclear Armed country for Taiwan ?
i mean an attack on China from US with its allies as @jhungary said , will definitely drag Russia into the war ... so are we talking about the 4-5 Nuclear Powers going crazy with Nukes because of a tiny Island Dispute ??
 
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@gambit @jhungary do you think the US will risk a full scale War with a Nuclear Armed country for Taiwan ?
Yes. If the Taiwanese resistance -- meaning in the political and social dimensions -- is strong enough, the US will come to Taiwan's aid. The fighting will be for Taiwan, not for any gains on mainland China. So if by 'full scale war' means to cripple the PLA's ability to invade Taiwan, the US and Taiwan can do so.

i mean an attack on China from US with its allies as @jhungary said , will definitely drag Russia into the war ... so are we talking about the 4-5 Nuclear Powers going crazy with Nukes because of a tiny Island Dispute ??
No. Russia will gain nothing from fighting for China against Taiwan. Russia did nothing when Iraq was invaded -- twice.
 
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Yes. If the Taiwanese resistance -- meaning in the political and social dimensions -- is strong enough, the US will come to Taiwan's aid. The fighting will be for Taiwan, not for any gains on mainland China. So if by 'full scale war' means to cripple the PLA's ability to invade Taiwan, the US and Taiwan can do so.

The PLAA will have their own homeland Advantage for sure right ? US and Taiwan alone cant beat the PLAA in their own backyard , but with other US allies China stand no chance .. the countries US invaded so far were not Nuclear armed state with existing ICBM's Operational and able to hit US mainland ... if China is about to fall in a ultimate humiliation , they might or will use the weapon of Mass destruction ..
China knows that Conventionally they cant defeat US for now ..

No. Russia will gain nothing from fighting for China against Taiwan. Russia did nothing when Iraq was invaded -- twice.

well i think you cant compare Iraq with China , they are the largest arm exporter of Russians arms, apart from that , Russia and China enjoy a huge economic ties ..Russia will gain a lot from the full scale war between US and its allies with China , cause Russia can easily fit in the situation to break the US super power title ... conventionally US cant beat Russia and China in their homeland ..and if Nukes were to use , than Goodbye Humanity :D
 
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I think what he refer to is the eventuality. US will win an engagement with China over Taiwan. Just not in the initial phase.

Had Taiwan come under attack from China, and if US were to involve, American will do so in the same fashion as with during the Korean War. Which means they will send the 2d ID and 7th ID to Taiwan to fight a delay action. Coordinate with Taiwanese Defence Force and they will hold on until US can mobilise their main force, purposely with NATO or even UN and land in Taiwan. This will take approximately 14 to 28 days.

How about hitting Hainan- Taking out the Nuclear submarine base and getting hold of some territory there- and later use it as a bargaining chip- or even to relieve the their offensive strength in Taiwan- Other than using ohio subs with their tomahawk on Shanghai and Beijing ?
 
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@gambit @jhungary do you think the US will risk a full scale War with a Nuclear Armed country for Taiwan ?
i mean an attack on China from US with its allies as @jhungary said , will definitely drag Russia into the war ... so are we talking about the 4-5 Nuclear Powers going crazy with Nukes because of a tiny Island Dispute ??

Unlike what most people think, China will not use nuke on Taiwan Issue.

Fanboy-ism aside, if China were to use force to recapture Taiwan, that mean they want Taiwan to be a part of their province for whatever reason, otherwise they would not use force to recapture Taiwan, which is seen as the last resort. What good would it be if China escalate the situation into a nuclear war? Which only one of the two result will that ends up. Either Taiwan will be erased, or China, along with the world would cease to exist. Both result would basically negate whatever reason China want to recapture Taiwan.

At the current form, even China can repel the Taiwanese Defence, there are no way China can hold on to it as US forces steamrolling in, China knows this, that's why there will not be any attack.

Geopolitically, Russia would simply stand by and watch, which would benefit Russia the most when world number 1 and number 2 are going at each other. That way, China will go back to under Russia and Russia will got closer to the US. US fighting China would be a dream for Russia to have, and they won't do anything about it. At least this is what I will do if I am Russia President.

How about hitting Hainan- Taking out the Nuclear submarine base and getting hold of some territory there- and later use it as a bargaining chip- or even to relieve the their offensive strength in Taiwan- Other than using ohio subs with their tomahawk on Shanghai and Beijing ?

I believe, if the war in Taiwan would happen, US would fight a defensive war to keep the war low profile. Invading China or Hainan would not be recommended, however, A naval operation on Hainan and Tsingtao would be considered to stem the PLAN strength on the AO, which would make the defence in Taiwan easier
 
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Unlike what most people think, China will not use nuke on Taiwan Issue.

you are right, but the thing is defeating China will make sure US will lose its Military might in entire Asian Region ..and i hope you agree with it ..

Fanboy-ism aside, if China were to use force to recapture Taiwan, that mean they want Taiwan to be a part of their province for whatever reason, otherwise they would not use force to recapture Taiwan, which is seen as the last resort. What good would it be if China escalate the situation into a nuclear war? Which only one of the two result will that ends up. Either Taiwan will be erased, or China, along with the world would cease to exist. Both result would basically negate whatever reason China want to recapture Taiwan.

sometimes i never understand why China is so obsessed with Taiwan ? i mean they can focus on other things ..
I doubt that China will escalate into a Nuclear war but they will if they mainland is threatened .. after all Nukes works as a boggy man over the decades ..the reaction of US and China will also depend on the nature of War right ? If world see China as aggressor than it will be a negative point for Chinese ..but if US interfere in a Minor dispute between China and Taiwan than it will effect US Operations in Asia ..

Geopolitically, Russia would simply stand by and watch, which would benefit Russia the most when world number 1 and number 2 are going at each other. That way, China will go back to under Russia and Russia will got closer to the US. US fighting China would be a dream for Russia to have, and they won't do anything about it. At least this is what I will do if I am Russia President.

Agree to that for Russia its better to stay and watch US and China fight .. so after one party falls Russia comes into the picture ..but i still doubt that US will risk its entire Military might in Asia , to protect Taiwan , for Japan or S.Korea i would have understand .. but for Taiwan ... it will also be difficult for US to defend Taiwan as its geopolitical close to China ..
 
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KC-135s don't need to be destroyed in the air.

Here's a picture of a KC-135 refueling on the ground. The green tanker truck to the right of the picture is called a R-11 Refueler. Virtually all aircraft are ultimately refueled on the ground via this tanker truck.

http://www.127wg.ang.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/2015/07/150709-Z-FN720-051.jpg
150709-Z-FN720-051.jpg


Just destroy the airbase, the large fuel storage tanks on the ground, the runways, and the KC-135 can't even take off. A few well placed missile strikes is all it would take. It's that simple.
 

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Certainly it would be in China's best interest to do a Hong Kong type resolution to this instead of some hasty brute force mess and have the world frown on them and turn them into North Korea.

You do know you yanks are the North Koreans to the rest of the world who don't wonder aimlessly after you like sheep right?

How many countries have you invaded since WW2, for the fear of the 'domino effect,' which was non-existent in the first place; which communist country(s) invaded you guys to even generate such a threat?

And now, all these bogus claims about WMD's, when honestly, it's always been about your bloody personal interests from the start.

USA, while it's provided some exceptional technology to the rest of the world, needs to have its global police dog badges stripped away; it's consistently abused this power throughout this century, and continues to destroy nations and functioning societies.

Of course...the classic response. Everybody who is not Chinese or Pakistani is obviously an Indian,



They are too big of a target. It would be easier to simply overwhelm them with thousands of fast targets (manned and unmanned). Although you could stick them in the middle of the flotilla as a sacrificial target. More likely you'd keep the LST's for a second wave.

Right right right... Just as how I'm a Pakistani or Chinese when I make a point in an Indian thread, or an ol' Rusky or pro-Assad Syrian national when I comment on a yankee one?

Why don't you begin by not being a hypocrite?

But Did you look at my post? I never said anything about using V-22 and F-18 to go against your mighty J-20, which wasn't even a production plane yet. I said you can use V-22 and F-18 to refuel a F-22.

Let alone Marine Corps Air Station and Naval Air Station can operate Air Force refueller as well

The rest of your post are too face palm to reply



Oh well. Whatever you say :)

Just that I spend 15 years living in Hong Kong and I did not see it your way, but, well.

You're going to put actuators to control flow of oil to the boom of another fighter? You know how expensive it is to modify the print of an existing part? That's why planes don't go through major changes after CDR, which after production in this case, is well past CDR.

In addition, you're going to limit the small combat radius of fighters simply to allocate fuel to other fighters? Where is the logic in that?

This is stupid.

Air refueling is a combat tactic on its own and one that the PLA have no experience with, as we remind you of that. You are under the misconception that there are a few tankers constantly on stations. YOU ARE WRONG. Unlike you, the USAF is not that stupid. The scheduling for air tankers are highly coordinated to maximize the numbers of fighters one tanker can service in the shortest time on station. Those orbits are unknown and would be outside of ground based radars on mainland China, which would be either destroyed or degraded on day one from high altitude B-2s and low altitude B-1s.

China's underground bases ? Access would be either denied or restricted from the same B-1s and B-2s.

The J-20s ? As I posted in the past that the US have effectively defeated 'stealth', if you want to bring in the J-20, the USN's F-35s will shoot them out of the sky long before each J-20 pilot can begin to search for the tankers.

The US have always have the mentality of fighting from a numerically inferior position and with our real world combat experience, your PLA WILL lose.

Lol Gambit, you sound like a Chinese right now. I guess I'll just close this with:

Hail America, hail your carriers, hail your stealth aircrafts, hail your AD electronics, hail your HGV's from Boeing or wherever they're from etc.

In other words, let's just bow down to ya yanks before you nut heads blow the rest of the world who haven't already been bombed to smithereens.

Can we close the thread now, it's turning into a flame war-unnecessary.
 
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The point to this thread is quite simple.

  • J-20 can destroy anything non stealth
  • One single J-20 can destroy 400 F-16 and 100 F-18 because they are non-stealth
  • F-35 is no match to anything in PLAAF inventory
  • US Aircraft only refuel mid air above Chinese Coast.
  • Mighty DF-26 destroy all. \
Basically, nuff said, all hail Chinese Military Might

Good Day All:)
Have you seen Chinese movies featuring anti Japan war? One single Chinese soldier alone could crush the entire Japanese regiment. Don't underestimate Chinese power. If you do you are doomed. Personally I like their delusion because otherwise the party would become too boring.
 
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Look at the map. China has at least 40 airbases. The US only has seven.

American Innovation: The Future of America's Eagles Part II

wq6WZ0Y.jpg

"United States airbases in proximity to China. Red aircraft icons represent PLAAF bases. Image credit: RAND, 2008."
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As I had mentioned previously, China has 41 underground airbases. The US has none. This means US oil tanks can be easily destroyed. You can't fight a war without access to jet fuel, munition supplies, or repair facilities.
Source: Assessing PLA Underground Air Basing Capability

Let's just assume the US has access to jet fuel. How does the US intend to refuel F-22s in the air? China can easily shoot down the KC-135 tankers. Without air refueling, the short-legged F-22 (with a combat radius of 400 nautical miles) will never reach the battlefield.

The United States needs 63 KC-135 tankers that fly 86 sorties per day. Squadrons of Chinese J-20 stealth fighters (with a combat radius of 1,200 nautical miles) can easily shoot down the KC-135 tankers. Without tankers, the war is over for the F-22s.

American Innovation: The Uncertain Future of America's Raptors - Part I Introduction

O2hB1Jo.jpg

"Raptor sortie generation rates from Andersen. Image Credit: RAND, 2008."
As you are saying I would agree yes China would have the initial advantage but only if it would be China vs USA which wont be the case. In future if there is such a confrontation it would be China VS USA, Japan, Taiwan and India (atleast).

Secondly your whole assumption is based on the fact that F-22 wont be able to reach mainland China where as J-20 would easily takeout any tanker that USA could use to refuel F-22. One thing you must understand USA is not only F-22 it has many other aircrafts as well and J-20 is not operational yet. USA has 11 aircraft carriers that has super hornets on them, this means USA has 11 floating airbases that can reach anywhere they want.

I am not underestimating China's power but if in future USA faces China one thing is for sure USA would attack with full force and unleash weapons world is yet to see. Now coming back to you point about F-22 refueling, USAF can easily refuel F-22 in hostile airspace as the tanker would be protected by F-15, F-18 and other F-22s not to mention the AWACS and other electronic warefare planes so you must remove this from your mind that USA's tankers would be sitting ducks.
 
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You do know US have other tanker aircraft, right ?

Especially KC-130 which operated by both Navy and Marine, as well as V-22 and also F-18 Superhornet can be used tobuddy refueling, just because Air Force and Navy were in a different Branch, that does not mean they use different jet fuel....

And for your information, KC-130 and V-22 and F-18 can take off and land on an aircraft carrier

And your F-35 comment is just too face palm to reply...
China can reclaim Taiwan any time.

Father of Singapore, the late Lee Kuan Yew
 
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All USAF aircraft are refueled on the ground by one of these trucks.

http://media.dma.mil/2010/May/04/2000366846/-1/-1/0/100414-F-4613R-006.JPG
100414-F-4613R-006.JPG


I don't care if we're talking about a KC-135 tanker or a F-22 Raptor. At some point in the logistics chain all aircraft are refueled on the ground. The trucks have to get their fuel from large fuel storage tanks. Sometimes the fuel storage is above ground, sometimes it's below ground. Either way, the fuel storage tanks are stationary targets. You destroy these fuel tanks with some precision missile strikes, and the war is basically over. I'm not even kidding about this.
 
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@gambit @jhungary do you think the US will risk a full scale War with a Nuclear Armed country for Taiwan ?
i mean an attack on China from US with its allies as @jhungary said , will definitely drag Russia into the war ... so are we talking about the 4-5 Nuclear Powers going crazy with Nukes because of a tiny Island Dispute ??
No one is starting a war except USA, the neo-imperialist. This thread is all about the BIG FAT IF.

Therefore, everyone should stop being so dramatic.
 
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