China's groundbreaking EMALS and railgun

[qwerrty]

I have read all that, it solidity my point which the Chinese EMALS and railgun technology is still on paper, none of the physical breakthrough were actually made, again, beside pointing out the problem facing ahead.

Did you read the article yourselves??

新闻动态

First paragraph is about the movie transformer 2 and the article ask whether or not we still remember the final fight between the US Navy and the transformer

Second Paragraph is about the 5 modernization and how important electromagnetic weapon is destined to overtake conventional weapon development, which is already at its limit

Third Paragraph is about how the 206 institute now prioritize EM weaponry as the main focus and how EM weaponry works.

Fourth Paragraph is about how the Chinese start this technology from scratch. And the road to maturity is long and complicated

Fifth paragraph is about Dr Lee and how he breakthrough the theory and how hard it was for him and basically everything pays off

Six and seven is about the long road ahead of EM technology and how the "Future generation will have to do the same to break through like the current generation is doing now.

It did not mention what and how the breakthrough was


新闻动态

IS about the Vice GM of 2-06 institute visit the institute and visit the virtual test on server about EM tech and the normal "Future success depends on this generation talks"

新闻动态

Is about the 7th EM catapult technology seminar and talk about the prototype (仿真 or maybe simulation) and the heat corrosion problem

空军副司令员张洪贺一行莅临二十七所视察指导工作,27所新闻,中国电子科技集团公司第二十七研究所,中国电子科技集团公司第二十七研究所

About how the group of 27 testing facilitate welcome the Air Force Vice Marshall on testing about EM, UAV and visit the Testing room and did some test which was not specified,

http://www.cpsjournals.org.cn/CN/column/潘垣.pdf

is just a CV of an engineer Dr Poon....

you're flip flopping. the point is that they do more than just building model like you said in your post. also, you've not read everything.

it's not just a cv
http://www.cpsjournals.org.cn/CN/column/潘垣.pdf

 

[jhungary]

you're flip flopping. the point is that they do more than just building model like you said in your post. also, you've not read everything.

it's not just a cv
http://www.cpsjournals.org.cn/CN/column/潘垣.pdf

First of all, do you actually know what I was saying?

For any new technology and new weapon to be made, the first stage is planning stage, which include paper theory, project simulation and debugging. then it move into the second stage, which involve building a prototype (or trying to build) of the weapon. The whole package pack into one and did not test them individually. Where as the third stage would be field testing, which included testing the prototype.

What I said was Chinese Railgun and EMALS technology were still in paper/planning stage, building model is one part of this stage, but I did not say the Chinese are only building model and doing nothing else. In fact, I did mentioned a lot on previous post on Chinese trying to solve problem associated with the technology. Which all belong to the first stage. But facts remain, China have not reach stage 2 yet. As no prototype was built publicly.

And that 303EMG was not a military application of rail gun or phototype, they are EM projectile that tested with a 30.2 gram (=0.0302 kgs) projectile. The US navy uses a 3.2 kg projectile (100 times the one Chinese were testing on the same system) on a 8MJ system powered by a 25MW generator. in 2006. And a 32MJ system were tested in 2010 and the Navy requirement of a railgun would put between 64MJ to 100MJ on a 16kg projectile.

Now, the US are in phase three of the railgun technology and will be finalized on 2020, where as the US railgun program started in 1993 (That's weaponized railgun technology, not EM Gun test fire like 303EMG) consider the Chinese started the weaponized railgun technology in 2010, and they are currently on phase one.

 

[qwerrty]

And that 303EMG was not a military application of rail gun or phototype, they are EM projectile that tested with a 30.2 gram (=0.0302 kgs) projectile. The US navy uses a 3.2 kg projectile (100 times the one Chinese were testing on the same system) on a 8MJ system powered by a 25MW generator. in 2006. And a 32MJ system were tested in 2010 and the Navy requirement of a railgun would put between 64MJ to 100MJ on a 16kg projectile.

that 303EMG test was in 1988 compare to 2006 by the US. i'm pretty sure their military version is not far behind

 

[jhungary]

that 303EMG test was in 1988 compare to 2006 by the US. i'm pretty sure their military version is not far behind

Wrong, the 303EMG is compare to the Australian EM Projectile testing in 1962 by Sir Mark Oliphant. Or US did after 1947 (Which find out they need the power to power half of Chicago to do anything meaningful). Which both, along with 303EMG were to test the Electromagnetic Property on projectile, that same technology give birth to Maglev Train not railgun.

Australian Academy of Science - Biographical memoirs-Marcus-Laurence-Elwin-Oliphant

With its solid brushgear, and a new air- bearing system designed by Oliphant, the 1965 HPG was, in all respects, a better, safer and more versatile machine than the 1962 HPG with NaK interconnections, even though the earlier machine had met all its design criteria. The 1965 HPG worked well, but no attempt was made to use it to operate a large accelerator. Instead, it was used extensively as a power source for some high-current facilities in laser and plasma physics, including a 30 Tesla-pulsed magnet, a powerful rail gun and the LT-4 Tokamak. The LT-4 Tokamak was designed specifically to operate with power supplied by the HPG, and the combination performed reliably and routinely for several years, exploring the conditions needed for toroidal plasma confinement. After nearly a quarter of a century of valuable service, under a wide range of operating conditions, the HPG was decommissioned at the end of 1985.

The 2006 railgun test is weapon grade testing on a 8MJ/25MW system, which propelled a projectile weight 3.2 Kilograms on the same system that China tested in 1988 (Whereas the 1988 Chinese 303EMG propelled a 30 gram projectile which equivalent to the 1947 testing)

Both test is non comparable. basically what China did in 1988 is to demonstrate they can use EM to propel something. Again, which is the backbone on Maglev train, but not a projectile weighted 100 times.

Chinese does not have a test that's correspondent to the 2006 Naval Surface Warfare Centre at the moment, or at least there are no known test that equal to the US test in 2006 well, they don't have a railgun prototype known to public.

 

[qwerrty]

if you think it was just for some scientific research only, you're are naive. any long time china military watcher should know that china doesn't like linking anything they do to military and they don't like advertising their military sh1ts that are still in development to public like others. lol. they called their aircraft carrier a science research ship. their huge network of yaogan spy satellites for studying crop. islands they are building in SCS for helping fishermen. they tested their ABM, hypersonic and anti-satellite, etc, were all in secret without a word from them. the world only know until after the pentagon revealed to media and china keeps denying.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

if you think it was just for some scientific research only, you're are naive. any long time china military watcher should know that china doesn't like linking anything they do to military and they don't like advertising their military sh1ts that are still in development to public like others. lol. they called their aircraft carrier a science research ship. their huge network of yaogan spy satellites for studying crop. islands they are building in SCS for helping fishermen. they tested their ABM, hypersonic and anti-satellite, etc, were all in secret without a word from them. the world only know until after the pentagon revealed to media and china keeps denying.

It is a good thing for China's opponent to continue to underestimate it.

Now many people are starting to propagate that the J-20 needs the 117S as its stapled engine.

 

[jhungary]

if you think it was just for some scientific research only, you're are naive. any long time china military watcher should know that china doesn't like linking anything they do to military and they don't like advertising their military sh1ts that are still in development to public like others. lol. they called their aircraft carrier a science research ship. their huge network of yaogan spy satellites for studying crop. islands they are building in SCS for helping fishermen. they tested their ABM, hypersonic and anti-satellite, etc, were all in secret without a word from them. the world only know until after the pentagon revealed to media and china keeps denying.

Whatever you say buddy.

I can only comment on what I see, whatever done under the table I could not see it, therefore if you have to clam whatever been done under the table, basically it's a moot point. As there are no way anything can be backed up, I can say US have started Star War project by inventing X-wing fighter or CIA started mind control experiment, you will never know whether I said was true or not.

I just know one thing, US have show clips that a working Railgun prototype and already been publicly testing the EMALS system on broad USS Gerald Ford, those thing do exist, and they did it first, if China did have a working railgun prototype, they would not hesitate to show it to the world as no shame being in Second place and the tech was basically out already. That is what I know or what I care, I don't care what you think happening under the curtain as there are no way you as an individual would know anything about it.

So, if it suit your ego, fire away. All I care is comeback to me when China have a working prototype of Railgun and EMALS launcher, otherwise its a moot point

 

[GS Zhou]

Whatever you say buddy.

I can only comment on what I see, whatever done under the table I could not see it, therefore if you have to clam whatever been done under the table, basically it's a moot point. As there are no way anything can be backed up, I can say US have started Star War project by inventing X-wing fighter or CIA started mind control experiment, you will never know whether I said was true or not.

I just know one thing, US have show clips that a working Railgun prototype and already been publicly testing the EMALS system on broad USS Gerald Ford, those thing do exist, and they did it first, if China did have a working railgun prototype, they would not hesitate to show it to the world as no shame being in Second place and the tech was basically out already. That is what I know or what I care, I don't care what you think happening under the curtain as there are no way you as an individual would know anything about it.

So, if it suit your ego, fire away. All I care is comeback to me when China have a working prototype of Railgun and EMALS launcher, otherwise its a moot point

Hey man, you need to understand the cultural difference between US and China. For US, they want to let the whole world knows their military programs progress, even from Day One. Just like the latest Long Range Strike Bomber, Pentagon already releases some information to public, even if the program hasn't officially started yet. But you should never expect China to do the same. The typical Chinese way is to release some vague information from the propaganda articles.

Another interesting comparison is the Ballistic Missiles Interception Tests. For US, you could get some detailed information from the website of Missile Defense Agency of DOD. But for China, all you could get is a simple statement from the Xinhua News Agency: China did a mid-course land-based missile interception test at DD/MM/YY, and the test achieved the preset goals.

 

[cirr]

EMALS and railgun，each being developed by an entity separate and different from CASIC，will be in operational deployment before the electromagnetic launching technology is realized as combat-ready weapons。

China makes breakthrough in electromagnetic missile launching technology

(People's Daily Online)

November 20, 2015

A research project on high-powered electromagnetic launching technology, conducted by the #206 research institute of the Second Academy China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp. (CASIC), has made major breakthroughs, according to a report on the CASIC website.

Li Yan, leader of the research team, explained that chemical energy launching technology is still widely used in modern warfare because of its great explosive power. However, it has many weaknesses: the launching process is irreversible and the emergency control is troublesome. Meanwhile, the traditional launching methods have already neared its speed limit. Applying electric energy to launching technology is an inevitable choice.

Focusing on common electromagnetic missile launching technology and electromagnetic launching technology for short-range barrage air defense, the technology developed by the research team has significantly improved the launching performance of the missiles as well as their exit velocity; it has also reduced the weight of the missile carrier mechanism and the operation and maintenance cost of the launcher. The electromagnetic launching technology is an indicator of the military's technical improvement, and will be applied to weapon equipment systems across different fields.

The report also points out that the new technology still has a long way to go before it can be realized as a truly transformative technological achievement.

China makes breakthrough in electromagnetic missile launching technology - People's Daily Online

that 303EMG test was in 1988 compare to 2006 by the US. i'm pretty sure their military version is not far behind

The guy is confusing China's railgun programme，which is well pass the prototype stage，with CASIC's electromagnetic missile launching technology。

 

[Sanchez]

First of all, do you actually know what I was saying?

For any new technology and new weapon to be made, the first stage is planning stage, which include paper theory, project simulation and debugging. then it move into the second stage, which involve building a prototype (or trying to build) of the weapon. The whole package pack into one and did not test them individually. Where as the third stage would be field testing, which included testing the prototype.

What I said was Chinese Railgun and EMALS technology were still in paper/planning stage, building model is one part of this stage, but I did not say the Chinese are only building model and doing nothing else. In fact, I did mentioned a lot on previous post on Chinese trying to solve problem associated with the technology. Which all belong to the first stage. But facts remain, China have not reach stage 2 yet. As no prototype was built publicly.

And that 303EMG was not a military application of rail gun or phototype, they are EM projectile that tested with a 30.2 gram (=0.0302 kgs) projectile. The US navy uses a 3.2 kg projectile (100 times the one Chinese were testing on the same system) on a 8MJ system powered by a 25MW generator. in 2006. And a 32MJ system were tested in 2010 and the Navy requirement of a railgun would put between 64MJ to 100MJ on a 16kg projectile.

Now, the US are in phase three of the railgun technology and will be finalized on 2020, where as the US railgun program started in 1993 (That's weaponized railgun technology, not EM Gun test fire like 303EMG) consider the Chinese started the weaponized railgun technology in 2010, and they are currently on phase one.

Did you notice the time of shooting 30gram projectile and read the text about 25MW generator?

 

[jhungary]

Did you notice the time of shooting 30gram projectile and read the text about 25MW generator?

yeah 1988, then?

Did you notice the time the Australian uses HPV to power the railgun?

1965

Australian Academy of Science - Biographical memoirs-Marcus-Laurence-Elwin-Oliphant

And did you notice the weight of the projectile tested by the Naval Warfare Development Group?

3.2 kgs (that's 3200 grams)

Hey man, you need to understand the cultural difference between US and China. For US, they want to let the whole world knows their military programs progress, even from Day One. Just like the latest Long Range Strike Bomber, Pentagon already releases some information to public, even if the program hasn't officially started yet. But you should never expect China to do the same. The typical Chinese way is to release some vague information from the propaganda articles.

Another interesting comparison is the Ballistic Missiles Interception Tests. For US, you could get some detailed information from the website of Missile Defense Agency of DOD. But for China, all you could get is a simple statement from the Xinhua News Agency: China did a mid-course land-based missile interception test at DD/MM/YY, and the test achieved the preset goals.

Again, I am not saying China did not have any progress nor even have not have the project on railgun.

I am saying I cannot comment what I cannot see. Nor do you, I can only comment on something that push out in the public. I can say Ion Cannon is in the latest stage of development by DARPA, and I can talk about it a lot but would you believe it is another problem.

Railgun development had been started since WW2, it's would be stupid to assume no one is developing it. But how can you comment on the progress when you cannot see it? You could have say they were developed even before the US in 1988 but just you can't see it, how do you comment on this sentence?

Which going back to my original post. When they did not show you the progress, nor show you the actual prototype. Whatever mentioned is just speculation, unless you or anyone else here worked in the 206 institute and brave enough to tell us what have been up to, even so there are nothing to believe unless it was backed with evidence.

 

[GS Zhou]

yeah 1988, then?

Did you notice the time the Australian uses HPV to power the railgun?

1965

Australian Academy of Science - Biographical memoirs-Marcus-Laurence-Elwin-Oliphant

And did you notice the weight of the projectile tested by the Naval Warfare Development Group?

3.2 kgs (that's 3200 grams)



Again, I am not saying China did not have any progress nor even have not have the project on railgun.

I am saying I cannot comment what I cannot see. Nor do you, I can only comment on something that push out in the public. I can say Ion Cannon is in the latest stage of development by DARPA, and I can talk about it a lot but would you believe it is another problem.

Railgun development had been started since WW2, it's would be stupid to assume no one is developing it. But how can you comment on the progress when you cannot see it? You could have say they were developed even before the US in 1988 but just you can't see it, how do you comment on this sentence?

Which going back to my original post. When they did not show you the progress, nor show you the actual prototype. Whatever mentioned is just speculation, unless you or anyone else here worked in the 206 institute and brave enough to tell us what have been up to, even so there are nothing to believe unless it was backed with evidence.

I'm not a research guy inside the institution, therefore hard to share you more details about the programs. Even if I was, I obviously won't run the risk of being arrested to put the classified information on internet.

However, my past experience on learning the military technology progress news of China teaches me that, if China claims to public that it could achieve a score of 30 on a specified military technology, then the reality is that it actually has already made a score of 60, or even more.

So, let the time to prove it.

 

[jhungary]

I'm not a research guy inside the institution, therefore hard to share you more details about the programs. Even if I was, I obviously won't run the risk of being arrested to put the classified information on internet.

However, my past experience on learning the military technology progress news of China teaches me that, if China claims to public that it could achieve a score of 30 on a specified military technology, then the reality is that it actually has already made a score of 60, or even more.

So, let the time to prove it.

That's what I have been saying.

Whatever people claim is whatever people claim, they cannot be measure by the actual progress simply we are not seeing it. Unlike the US, where everything was made and made public so you can gauge the progress. You cannot simply say this is how far we go without tell me and you where you were and where you are at the moment.

If you wanted to, you can have faith with your Military, For me, they can finish the whole project, they can be actually never start, Until I see something, I cannot comment on that, and so did you, everything you say is a speculation, You can only guess how far the project is coming along. I mean if you believe China have been starting it in 1988, or if you want to believe China actually producing the gun then good on you, I simply say since no one saw anything, I don't believe what anyone said, not you, not the Chinese government or not Chinese media. Seeing is believing my friend.

 

[Nan Yang]

AN ELECTROMAGNETIC ARMS RACE HAS BEGUN: CHINA IS MAKING RAILGUNS TOO

China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) has reported online that its 206 Institute, which researches electromagnetic launch technologies, has made breakthroughs in electromagnetically launch boosted missiles and railguns designed for close in weapons systems (CIWS). This follows the 206 Institute's hosting of the Seventh Chinese Electromagnetic Technology Conference in Oct 2015, which also reported advances in material sciences to reduce railgun barrel wear (while railgun technology have been tested since 1918, power generation and the wearing out of the barrel are longstanding barriers to the deployment of militarily useful railguns).

Source
An Electromagnetic Arms Race Has Begun: China Is Making Railguns Too | Popular Science

 

[BoQ77]

AN ELECTROMAGNETIC ARMS RACE HAS BEGUN: CHINA IS MAKING RAILGUNS TOO

China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) has reported online that its 206 Institute, which researches electromagnetic launch technologies, has made breakthroughs in electromagnetically launch boosted missiles and railguns designed for close in weapons systems (CIWS). This follows the 206 Institute's hosting of the Seventh Chinese Electromagnetic Technology Conference in Oct 2015, which also reported advances in material sciences to reduce railgun barrel wear (while railgun technology have been tested since 1918, power generation and the wearing out of the barrel are longstanding barriers to the deployment of militarily useful railguns).

Source
An Electromagnetic Arms Race Has Begun: China Is Making Railguns Too | Popular Science

The video of testing is needed for judge any claim.