China's Ford class supercarrier

[below_freezing]

In the form of buying you cheap Chineese trashit represents abot 17% that's a big chunk of your economy.

My "houses" that's plural as in 4 are all paid off and rented out now go make my new nikes.

Houses in the US are cheaper than some in China I'm looking at houses in Victorville, CA right now that are cheap as sh*t and yet Americans can't afford them and they were taken over by banks and sold for pennies

Maybe it's better to speculate in real estate in the US, and rent them out to blacks and mexicans to kick whites out. I'm a foreign investor, better treat me like god (the way you think foreign investors should be treated!) otherwise i'll pull my money out and leave the US with less money than China

 

[gambit]

technology is pretty much a treadmill with a bunch of razor sharp blades all around if you choose to jump off...

other navies have other duties..and different doctrines.
I don't think the italian navy needs ACs the size of Ford or nimitz class

US had carriers, USSR had carrier group killer missile armed heavy cruisers,cruisers and destroyers, it's a choice...


I did mention a while back that finding a carrier in a pelagic environment, i.e. a closed sea like the Med is relatively easy ..


finding a carrier in an ocean ..... well... that takes a lot more than satelites .. ..

While I objectively support China's PLAN to enter the aircraft carrier fielding navies club, equally objective should be the understanding that China's acquisition of the Varyag, and the enthusiasm exhibited by the Chinese members of this forum, must be tempered by the fact that the Varyag was the product of a navy that had scant understanding of naval aviation and how to exploit that ability globally. The US never claimed to have 'perfect' knowledge of naval aviation but our decades long experience with it, with several classes and different propulsion methods, made US the standard bearer of naval aviation.

What these boys do not understand, despite their boasts of having 'high IQs' and university degrees, is that usually when a design is finalized for production, be it a toaster or an aircraft carrier, is that the design effectively stepped off that technology treadmill, in other words, the design is sort of a 'snapshot' in time of the country's technological prowess in that particular arena, again -- be it a toaster or an aircraft carrier.

Soooo...

The problem, not merely potential problem, is that the Varyag came from a less-than-ideal understanding of naval aviation, and that the navy that tried to remedy that deficiency no longer exist. How much of that less-than-US knowledge, perhaps even flawed concepts, will be incorporated by the PLAN and therefore resulting in flawed naval doctrines we simply do not know at this point. Cooler, wiser, and more conservative personalities inside the PLAN's leadership must not ignore this very real possibility.

Assuming that China will succeed in fielding a 'training' aircraft carrier, it will take China at least several years, if not outright a decade, of constant at sea deployment of this ship for the PLAN to learn the intricacies of carrier operations, from capabilities to limitations, the latter is often influenced by the design itself, before the PLAN can formulate a reasonably coherent naval aviation doctrine that will mesh with the PLA's overall doctrine.

 

[Speeder 2]

I see you've been unbanned. Good, I need the cheap laugh.

Now, clearly you've never taken a single course in economics in your life. Chinese workers are definitely not the cheapest in Asia. Labour cost is not the only consideration in foreign investments in manufacturing, but only part of it. There is the consideration for basic infrastructure, worker education, political stability and even cultural work ethics. In simple terms, China will only strengthen its position as a manufacturing giant in the near future. Vietname, Philippines and Burma even with their dirt cheap labour simply cannot compete.

Since I've took 2 minutes out of my life to give your moronic a brief economic growth summary, perhaps you should consider clicking that thanks button.

Morons usually can't distinguish 2 parallel buttons, particularly if they are very close. Hey, with some luck, the dude may have just "Reported" you, as they've done to me all the time.

 

[Speeder 2]

Yes, technology is very much a treadmill. If you want to compete, you get on the treadmill and train.

What's the matter, Harry? it doesn't sound like you... technology is no treadmill, fanboy it's a pump, you just need to sit on it and start training.

Some...But for the most part, countries that have sea lanes access simply do not have the resources to field a 'blue water' navy, let alone a single aircraft carrier. China is behind India in naval aviation. Until the PLAN achieve parity with the Indian Navy, which we can safely assume to take at least a decade of constant progress, the US Navy remain out of reach for China.

" China is behind India in naval aviation." what you too much technology training lately?

 

[gambit]

What's the matter, Harry? it doesn't sound like you... technology is no treadmill, fanboy it's a pump, you just need to sit on it and start training.




" China is behind India in naval aviation." what you too much technology training lately?

So what I said went 'whooooossshhh' over your head...But we all know those 'high Chinese IQs' statistics are fake anyway...

 

[Speeder 2]

So what I said went 'whooooossshhh' over your head...But we all know those 'high Chinese IQs' statistics are fake anyway...

So right, Harry. Only pump, the purple one, is for real.


Now what's your definition of "Indian" naval aviation ?

 

[amalakas]

So right, Harry. Only pump, the purple one, is for real.


Now what's your definition of "Indian" naval aviation ?

Man, even the way aircraft are parked on the deck requires experience the PLAN navy currently does not have.

It doesn't matter which carrier you have, taking it to sea for real missions is what generates experience ...

We need to stop underestimating the established in favor of the unproven . .

 

[milvipes]

Unless China can ensure that Russian oil/gas companies are always on good terms, then China needs carrier to safeguard it energy supply. What if sh*t hits the fan, say, in Angola, and China has no creditable way to intervene? The residents of Manchuria will have to endure a very long, cold winter.

 

[Speeder 2]

Man, even the way aircraft are parked on the deck requires experience the PLAN navy currently does not have.

It doesn't matter which carrier you have, taking it to sea for real missions is what generates experience ...

We need to stop underestimating the established in favor of the unproven . .

Don't abuse the word 'established', will you?


Thai navy has had a carrier for a long long time, with it here comes its "naval aviation".

Is Royal Thai Navy also "the established", too?


Having sth, especially when you purchased it from someone else, and having learned some basic knowhow to operate it in a peaceful /non-competitive environment, doesn't mean you are "estalished".


You bought a bike, and learned how to ride it, doesn't mean you are an "established cycler" or something, oke?


Naval aviation is very easy to pick up with, but it is quite hard and takes a long time to become world class, yet India's is not world class by any means.


When Japan first entered world market to make autos, even Czechslovakia and Poland were automakers. But were they "established"?

China's navy today is similar to Japan's auto entrance in the 60's, yet Indian navy is far from the quality of Czech automakers were at a time.

Furthermore, it's a group of persons who are behind hardware & its training maneuvres, and different groups of persons from different places have certain average traits such as ** , etc.

Get a picture?

"established"

 

[amalakas]

Don't abuse the word 'established', will you?


Thai navy has had a carrier for a long long time, with it here comes its "naval aviation".

Is Royal Thai Navy also "the established", too?


Having sth, especially when you purchased it from someone else, and having learned some basic knowhow to operate it in a peaceful /non-competitive environment, doesn't mean you are "estalished".


You bought a bike, and learned how to ride it, doesn't mean you are an "established cycler" or something, oke?


Naval aviation is very easy to pick up with, but it is quite hard and takes a long time to become world class, yet India's is not world class by any means.


When Japan first entered world market to make autos, even Czechslovakia and Poland were automakers. But were they "established"?

China's navy today is similar to Japan's auto entrance in the 60's, yet Indian navy is far from the quality of Czech automakers were at a time.

Furthermore, it's a group of persons who are behind hardware & its training maneuvres, and different groups of persons from different places have certain average traits such as ** , etc.

Get a picture?

"established"

No offence, but I think you did not understand what I was on about and clearly you missed the point, which shows you probably have no military experience and neither are willing to know.

 

[gambit]

No offence, but I think you did not understand what I was on about and clearly you missed the point, which shows you probably have no military experience and neither are willing to know.

He does not. He spectacularly failed to grasp the context of 'established'. The nail in his coffin of arrogant ignorance is when he said 'Naval aviation is very easy to pick up with'. Some fools are quicker to expose themselves or be exposed than others.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

He does not. He spectacularly failed to grasp the context of 'established'. The nail in his coffin of arrogant ignorance is when he said 'Naval aviation is very to pick up with'. Some fools are quicker to expose themselves or be exposed than others.

Nothing new or unexpected! Some guys are hell-bent on just exposing some of their I.Q. (Imbecility Quotient).
Nothing in the post had any rational context. Just a lot of opinions expressed to attempt to feverishly push some agenda, nothing more than that.

 

[Aramsogo]

Nothing new or unexpected! Some guys are hell-bent on just exposing some of their I.Q. (Imbecility Quotient).
Nothing in the post had any rational context. Just a lot of opinions expressed to attempt to feverishly push some agenda, nothing more than that.

It puzzles me why Indians and Americans would post on a Chinese thread in a Pakastani defence forum given that the two groups generally don't like each other. Why not join the India Defence forum instead?? I'm sure they have lots of great threads like 'India to build Death Star in 2186' or 'India's manned mission to Mars in 2055'. It's because without an opposing side all you have is Indian man-love and the sounds of crickets.

 

[amalakas]

It puzzles me why Indians and Americans would post on a Chinese thread in a Pakastani defence forum given that the two groups generally don't like each other. Why not join the India Defence forum instead?? I'm sure they have lots of great threads like 'India to build Death Star in 2186' or 'India's manned mission to Mars in 2055'. It's because without an opposing side all you have is Indian man-love and the sounds of crickets.

because there is something wrong with a group of people who all agree and have no counter voice to keep them in check.

for example, without americans, indians, etc in this forum you would all believe that naval aviation is really easy to pick up !!!

would you want that distortion of the truth ? even if it is just the internet ?

 

[gambit]

because there is something wrong with a group of people who all agree and have no counter voice to keep them in check.

for example, without americans, indians, etc in this forum you would all believe that naval aviation is really easy to pick up !!!

would you want that distortion of the truth ? even if it is just the internet ?

Yes, he would. They would. They do not have the courage to stand on facts and reasonably logical arguments based upon facts.