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China's fifth generation PL-10 AAM: a gerneration ahead of AIM-9 family

Maybe out-date is my wrong choice of word. What the man said was the AIM-9X is a good missile, but lags behind to the new PL-10 in terms of the range and the speed. Just consider this question: if it still has an edge against China, why will you give to Taiwan considering its secret may be leaked to China?
The PL-10 is supposed to be 'short range', so what does longer range than the AIM-9 really mean ?

There are reasons why we have 'long', 'medium', and 'short' ranges for missiles. These distances are not fixed, but they are guidelines and those guidelines were created by those who played this game long before China entered the arena.

When an air-air missile design is supposed to be short range, certain things occurs when the missile is away from the launch parent. In air-air combat, the term 'short range' implies maneuverability and that capability should be at the ready after that distance from the launch parent. Air-air missiles that are designed to be 'medium' and 'long' ranges have different behaviors before maneuverability. One of those behaviors is altitude gain, as in the missile gains altitude for a 'big picture' view and use gravity to increase speed. Missiles designed to be 'short range' is supposed to look for a target ASAP, so it should not be programmed for any altitude gain. That is wasted time.

That was just to give you guys an idea of what is involved at the conceptual level. In sum, what you want the missile to do AFTER it leave the rail determines its programmed behaviors.

In air combat, distances between fighters dictate which type of missiles to use. When fighters approaches each other, pilots have to take into consideration as to when they are far enough to use the 'medium range' missile or when they are too close that cannot use any missiles at all. On the other hand, when fighters are chasing each other, pilots have to take into consideration their separation distance, since one fighter is usually faster than his opponent due to differences in aircrafts and environment. That separation distance can increase or decrease and at different time rate, making which type of missiles to use difficult.

This is why American designers stays within the 40 km distance for 'short range' designs, for now. From our air combat experience, which is volumes more than your China, this distance is when fighters are less likely to be at Mach, more like high subsonic, so making the short range missile under Mach 3 is more than adequate. This reduces fuel load without suffering fuel consumption. The smaller size make the missile easier to maneuver when it needs to because it may need to maneuver immediately after it is that safe distance from the launch parent.

So just because the PL-10 is longer range, however dubious that advantage, and maybe capable of higher Mach, that does not mean the PL-10 is technologically superior. Anybody can make anything go longer and faster. American 1960s muscle cars can be made to run faster than modern day Ferraris but overall the Ferraris are technologically superior cars.

I do not expect any of you to accept what I said even though what I said is eminently common sense and from precious experience that your China do not have.

The topic is PL-10 vs AIM-9X.
And my post 25 was exactly for that.
 
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Quite a moot point.

1.) To say a missile is a generation ahead means it's technology is a generation ahead, in this case, you are talking about how to defeat enemy jamming (Flare/Chaff) and How the missile lock onto a target. Judging from what the Article/Video (By the way, I DO READ CHINESE), those charactistic have already been achieve by the American.

Going faster, getting longer range is not something that advance. As @gambit said, there are Long Range, Mid Range and Short Range Missile for a reason, everyone can make stuff go faster and go further, but what is the point to redefine the range to say "This is extended range for short range missile"?

2.) I Sincerely don't think the Chinese know exactly to what capability AIM-9X Blk II can achieve, this is the kind of information even I cannot access, and I have TS/SCI clearance. How does the Chinese Scientist know to what extend AIM 9X perform?

3.) Well, this is probably most of all point. AIM-9X Blk II is not the latest version of AIM-9 Family, Blk III is coming right around the corner.

To say this "My missile is a generation more advance than yours" stuff is nothing more than gimmick. Nothing more than chest thumping.
 
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And my post 25 was exactly for that.
I mentioned the "failed" incident , not the expert. That was exactly I was trying to say, I posted up the video, 100 million Chinese viewers could understand it but you guys.

Although I don't like your style, I have to give you some credits for your efforts in constructing your long argument. However, bearing it in mind, China would not reveal this PL-10 if not for the current crisis in the SCS. All the people in the know will certainly not spell out how it works. So I can't help you if you want to gain more knowledge about it and you are free not to believe in anything which was said about it.
 
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http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-israelis-down-drone-20140831-story.html
Israel's military says Patriot missile shot down drone from Syria
It was typical you. The incident about the " failed air-to-air missile launched by F-16" I mentioned is not the incident in 2014 which you quoted.

As usual, you couldn't admit that your AIM-9X is no longer superior.

Syrian-Launched UAV Evades Israeli Air Defenses
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...hed-uav-evades-israeli-air-defenses/87225302/
Defense News 4:24 p.m. EDT July 17, 2016
636043685511403637-GettyImages-178320099.jpg


(Photo: Jack Guez/AFP via Getty Images)

27 CONNECTTWEET 130 LINKEDIN 6 COMMENTEMAILMORE
TEL AVIV, Israel — An unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) from Syria managed Sunday to penetrate Israeli airspace and evade two Patriot anti-air interceptors and possibly an F-16-launched air-to-air missile, sources here said.

An Israeli military spokesman insisted Israel Air Force air defenders detected the UAV prior to its violation of Israeli airspace on Sunday afternoon in the area of the Golan Heights. According to a July 17 statement, the Air Force continued to track the target in Israeli skies, yet failed to down the intruder, despite three intercept attempts.

“The aircraft was detected prior to entering the nation’s territory and was fully tracked by the Israel Air Force,” noted a July 17 statement. “From the initial investigation, it was found that three intercept attempts took place as per procedure. No hit of the target was identified.”

An Israeli military spokesman said the specific type of UAV is still being investigated, as are circumstances of the unsuccessful intercept attempts.

Tal Inbar of the Fisher Institute for Strategic Air and Space Studies said Sunday’s event demonstrates the fact that Israel cannot hermetically seal its skies from enemy intrusions. “Today’s event was a glimpse of things to come in the event of a major conflict,” Inbar told Defense News.

“In future conflicts, it will be a huge challenge for even the most advanced air defenses to discriminate from all the types of vehicles that will fill the skies.

“When the skies will be full of incoming rockets, missiles and air breathing threats — and when our own Iron Dome and David’s Sling interceptors will be saturating the skies — it’s hard to imagine the Israel Air Force allocating manned aircraft to shoot down incoming UAVs,” Inbar said.


DEFENSE NEWS

US-Israel Conclude 5-Day Missile Defense Tech Drill

Responsibility for defending Israel’s skies from aircraft and UAVs is shared by F-16 air defense fighters and Wing 168, the ground-based node of the service’s extensively integrated air defense network that operates upgraded Patriot PAC-2 interceptors.

Prior to 2014, ground-based Patriots had historically been junior partner to IAF fighters in their joint intercept mission against air-breathing threats. But in the summer of 2014, Wing 168’s Patriot force blasted three unmanned intruders out of the sky; two from Gaza and one near the Syrian border, not far from Sunday’s incident.
 
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This is a very interesting event, what is the cause that two Patriot SAM and a AAM failed to hit a slow moving UAV. Could it be something related to the size? Slow speed? or ECM from Russian? Could the Syrian UAV is actually a Russian?


Edit: After pondering for hours, is it possible that the large Patriot missile and AAM cannot lock on a tiny target like this small civilian drone? There must be an explaination.........

Drone-phantom2-gopro3-black-editon-1038x576.jpg
 
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I mentioned the "failed" incident , not the expert. That was exactly I was trying to say, I posted up the video, 100 million Chinese viewers could understand it but you guys.

Although I don't like your style, I have to give you some credits for your efforts in constructing your long argument. However, bearing it in mind, China would not reveal this PL-10 if not for the current crisis in the SCS. All the people in the know will certainly not spell out how it works. So I can't help you if you want to gain more knowledge about it and you are free not to believe in anything which was said about it.
If I doubt, it is because I have a technical foundation and experience on which I used to create my doubt.

What do you think this Chinese expert is going to say ? That the PL-10 is inferior to the American counterpart ? Of course he is going to say it is superior. :lol:
 
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For the very first time, China confirmed the existence of its fifth generation of PL-10 AAM on state TV by military experts. It was revealed yesterday that the PL-10 is much advanced than the AIM-9 series. PL-10 has the range of 60km, the speed of mach 4, the warhead of 33kilo and most advanced Go-Onto-Target (GOT) missile guidance systems.Once being locked, it is impossible for the enemy aircrafts to get away(Watch from 09:50 of the following video). No wonder, as the Chinese military expert said, the Japanese F-15 fighters had to fire the flares to flee in the June 17 confrontation in the East China Sea.

The PL-10 AAM was developed by the Luoyang Electro-Optical Research Institute (LEOC). The development of this fifth-generation PL-10 short-range air-to-air missile was completed according to comments by the missile's designer on a Chinese TV show broadcast in late August 2014.

The PL-10 was first seen on Chinese websites in 2013 being carried on a retractable/covered pylon on the J-20 fifth-generation fighter. More recently it has been seen on the wingtip pylon of the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation J-11 fighter.



View attachment 318383
View attachment 318384 View attachment 318387
Where is the real video of the missiles?

For the very first time, China confirmed the existence of its fifth generation of PL-10 AAM on state TV by military experts. It was revealed yesterday that the PL-10 is much advanced than the AIM-9 series. PL-10 has the range of 60km, the speed of mach 4, the warhead of 33kilo and most advanced Go-Onto-Target (GOT) missile guidance systems.Once being locked, it is impossible for the enemy aircrafts to get away(Watch from 09:50 of the following video). No wonder, as the Chinese military expert said, the Japanese F-15 fighters had to fire the flares to flee in the June 17 confrontation in the East China Sea.

The PL-10 AAM was developed by the Luoyang Electro-Optical Research Institute (LEOC). The development of this fifth-generation PL-10 short-range air-to-air missile was completed according to comments by the missile's designer on a Chinese TV show broadcast in late August 2014.

The PL-10 was first seen on Chinese websites in 2013 being carried on a retractable/covered pylon on the J-20 fifth-generation fighter. More recently it has been seen on the wingtip pylon of the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation J-11 fighter.



View attachment 318383
View attachment 318384 View attachment 318387
Where is the real video of the missiles?
 
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Do we have the real video of China ASAT impact shown? If not, does that means China ASAT is fake? China ASAT successful deployment is confirmed by US intelligence.
At least the ASAT claim was independently verified.

For the PL-10, the Chinese guy claimed it was superior to the American AIM-9. Fine, he can make that claim. But that does not make the claim technically true. Other than the border conflict with Viet Nam, the Chinese military have not been in any real combat since the end of WW II, and here we are talking about combat that involves the latest technology. For the AIM-9, it has seen combat in practically all parts of the world except for the poles. It has been adapted to use on helos and as short range SAMs. The PL-10 have done what ?

The best that the Chinese guy can claim is that the PL-10 has longer range and higher speed. Nothing wrong with that. But so far none of you have proved the American perspective that WVR is less than 40 km -- is wrong or inadequate. That determination came from decades of combat air-air experience and the basis on how we design the AIM-9. Calling the PL-10 superior just because it can fly longer and faster make no sense.
 
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Do we have the real video of China ASAT impact shown? If not, does that means China ASAT is fake? China ASAT successful deployment is confirmed by US intelligence.

Dude how you are sure ur missile is better than AIM ? Any technical parameters source to claim ?
 
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Have this report been confirmed by us ? At least source of their report please
Do we have the real video of China ASAT impact shown? If not, does that means China ASAT is fake? China ASAT successful deployment is confirmed by US intelligence.
 
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Have this report been confirmed by us ? At least source of their report please
That confirmation is old news -- 2007. We confirmed it. Not just the US military, but by just about every country that have radars pointed up. Drop the issue.
 
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At least the ASAT claim was independently verified.

For the PL-10, the Chinese guy claimed it was superior to the American AIM-9. Fine, he can make that claim. But that does not make the claim technically true. Other than the border conflict with Viet Nam, the Chinese military have not been in any real combat since the end of WW II, and here we are talking about combat that involves the latest technology. For the AIM-9, it has seen combat in practically all parts of the world except for the poles. It has been adapted to use on helos and as short range SAMs. The PL-10 have done what ?

The best that the Chinese guy can claim is that the PL-10 has longer range and higher speed. Nothing wrong with that. But so far none of you have proved the American perspective that WVR is less than 40 km -- is wrong or inadequate. That determination came from decades of combat air-air experience and the basis on how we design the AIM-9. Calling the PL-10 superior just because it can fly longer and faster make no sense.

What about the Korean war? I believe you were even around back in those days of black and white.

Also, what about the Indian war in 1962?

Limited war with the Russians in the late 60s?

I think that it is a good thing that the PLA have not fought a war since 1979. As old man Isaac Asimov wrote, 'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'. Kill a million ragged middle easterners (I believe the Americans have passed this) and twice as many will take their place.
 
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It was typical you. The incident about the " failed air-to-air missile launched by F-16" I mentioned is not the incident in 2014 which you quoted.

As usual, you couldn't admit that your AIM-9X is no longer superior.

Syrian-Launched UAV Evades Israeli Air Defenses
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...hed-uav-evades-israeli-air-defenses/87225302/
Defense News 4:24 p.m. EDT July 17, 2016
636043685511403637-GettyImages-178320099.jpg


(Photo: Jack Guez/AFP via Getty Images)

27 CONNECTTWEET 130 LINKEDIN 6 COMMENTEMAILMORE
TEL AVIV, Israel — An unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) from Syria managed Sunday to penetrate Israeli airspace and evade two Patriot anti-air interceptors and possibly an F-16-launched air-to-air missile, sources here said.

An Israeli military spokesman insisted Israel Air Force air defenders detected the UAV prior to its violation of Israeli airspace on Sunday afternoon in the area of the Golan Heights. According to a July 17 statement, the Air Force continued to track the target in Israeli skies, yet failed to down the intruder, despite three intercept attempts.

“The aircraft was detected prior to entering the nation’s territory and was fully tracked by the Israel Air Force,” noted a July 17 statement. “From the initial investigation, it was found that three intercept attempts took place as per procedure. No hit of the target was identified.”

An Israeli military spokesman said the specific type of UAV is still being investigated, as are circumstances of the unsuccessful intercept attempts.

Tal Inbar of the Fisher Institute for Strategic Air and Space Studies said Sunday’s event demonstrates the fact that Israel cannot hermetically seal its skies from enemy intrusions. “Today’s event was a glimpse of things to come in the event of a major conflict,” Inbar told Defense News.

“In future conflicts, it will be a huge challenge for even the most advanced air defenses to discriminate from all the types of vehicles that will fill the skies.

“When the skies will be full of incoming rockets, missiles and air breathing threats — and when our own Iron Dome and David’s Sling interceptors will be saturating the skies — it’s hard to imagine the Israel Air Force allocating manned aircraft to shoot down incoming UAVs,” Inbar said.


DEFENSE NEWS

US-Israel Conclude 5-Day Missile Defense Tech Drill

Responsibility for defending Israel’s skies from aircraft and UAVs is shared by F-16 air defense fighters and Wing 168, the ground-based node of the service’s extensively integrated air defense network that operates upgraded Patriot PAC-2 interceptors.

Prior to 2014, ground-based Patriots had historically been junior partner to IAF fighters in their joint intercept mission against air-breathing threats. But in the summer of 2014, Wing 168’s Patriot force blasted three unmanned intruders out of the sky; two from Gaza and one near the Syrian border, not far from Sunday’s incident.

I couldn't admit that its no longer superior or you implying that our missile is outdated as you have said before? :-) It be like saying the Russian aircraft that got shot down by an inferior made American missile. Or Saudi Arabia has shot down ballistic missiles by Patriot system from Yemen? We don't know what exactly happened that led to the missiles not able to hit the drone. And Israel has in the past shot down the enemy drones with Patriot and AIM before.
 
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If I doubt, it is because I have a technical foundation and experience on which I used to create my doubt.

What do you think this Chinese expert is going to say ? That the PL-10 is inferior to the American counterpart ? Of course he is going to say it is superior. :lol:
i must say PL-10 slightly inferior or almost equal to Aim-9X, chinese fanboys overestimate the capabilities of
PL-10 which they don't know
 
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