China's F-16: Meet the J-10 Fighter (Possibly Thanks to Israel)

[Beast]

Should add "alleged" lol

China has never done anything against IPs ever before (like really..)

Hi, didnt you realised by claiming Chinese stealing is highly offensive. If Chinese technology is all about stealing and no self indigenous input, your JF-17 wouldnt even shot down Su-30MKI as the technology is always behind others. I hope u can retract back your statement. That is not the way to talk about your close allies and speak in this kind of manners. I can assure you this forum is watch closely by CPC members and frequent by Chinese forum moderators or journalist of aviation journal with close ties to PLAAF. Your statement in this manner will do nothing to help PAF and just speak ill of your own country. You are senior members and I believe not an Indian in disguise.

The attitude of Pakistanis will affect what level of technology Chinese can share or transfer to Pakistanis. Chinese are not idiots. Dont cry Chinese betrayal when u treat Chinese with contempt in the first place.

@Horus Hope can have some of your input here.

 

[The Accountant]

Show some respect to Chinese, the one who lend you JF-17 with Chinese radar that shoots down IAF aircraft that included SU-30MKI. Calling it large number of Chinese effort thru stealing just show your ignorant and foolishness.

Large number of effort are by Chinese themselves thru billion of dollars pour into R&D and nurtured of talented aviation designer like Yang Wei. Its so easy to steal, why not you steal one F-22 and make one youself?

True pakistanis cannot stay between US or China. Its either u stay on Chinese camp or US camp. Given US repeatedly screw Pakistanis, only traitor will still try praise US and insult Chinese.

Your PAF Burraq UCAV are just pure copy of CH-1 Chinese UCAV and claimed as indignenous with zero self input. Your Pakistanis Aviation are nothing without Chinese support. Do u like that if I put it this way?

If u do not want others to be rude to you then you better watch your language and allies first rather than insult and spew nonsense.

Bro he is stupid but it never means that you start speaking in the same language ... Relationship with China are based on mutual respect and it is nothing that you lend us as a favor ,,, Its a mutual beneficial realtionship ... If we shot India then remember that after US India is your biggest enemy ,,, secondly you are investing in Pakistan as we are your backup plan in case of naval blockade at Malacca strait and to provide you shorter export and import route with middle east ...

In short we are working for mutual benefit and mutual respect ... With respect to stealing , Eienstien was European and the research that was used to make nuclear bomb was done in Germany but US took the benefit ... So if you take benefits from research already done by some covert means then nothing wrong with it ... We ourselves used knowledge aquire by Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan in Europe to make our nuclear bomb .. ANd the french's blue print of nuclear power plant were also handy ,,, So if some stupid call this stealing then let them be ,,, we should call it the right move ...

Learning from information base of enemy is an old tactics ... This is a war and in war information is the key ,,, dont we use spy?

Dont get offended from useless posts

Su-30MKI kill is not confirmed and is also a chance that the F-16 secured the 2nd kill.

Its officially confirmed ... Look at PAF patches

 

[Beast]

Bro he is stupid but it never means that you start speaking in the same language ... Relationship with China are based on mutual respect and it is nothing that you lend us as a favor ,,, Its a mutual beneficial realtionship ... If we shot India then remember that after US India is your biggest enemy ,,, secondly you are investing in Pakistan as we are your backup plan in case of naval blockade at Malacca strait and to provide you shorter export and import route with middle east ...

In short we are working for mutual benefit and mutual respect ... With respect to stealing , Eienstien was European and the research that was used to make nuclear bomb was done in Germany but US took the benefit ... So if you take benefits from research already done by some covert means then nothing wrong with it ... We ourselves used knowledge aquire by Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan in Europe to make our nuclear bomb .. ANd the french's blue print of nuclear power plant were also handy ,,, So if some stupid call this stealing then let them be ,,, we should call it the right move ...

Learning from information base of enemy is an old tactics ... This is a war and in war information is the key ,,, dont we use spy?

Dont get offended from useless posts


Its officially confirmed ... Look at PAF patches

Thanks for your input. This is a much better statement by Pakistanis. China always hope for the better of South Asia region and will always ensure Pakistanis can always be lead or keep in place when comes to military edge.

 

[Mahmood uz Zaman]

Thanks for your input. This is a much better statement by Pakistanis. China always hope for the better of South Asia region and will always ensure Pakistanis can always be lead or keep in place when comes to military edge.

Hey brother don't take seriously of their stupid post and these people.May be are indians pretending to be Pakistani. No need to show or describe what we feel for our Chinese brother in our heart.
China-Pakistan relationship is described as "higher than the mountain, deeper than the sea and sweeter than honey".
Remember our sacrifices for each other and these:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">China &amp; Pakistan are iron brothers. This is a people to people friendship. Besides awards from govts, Chinese people volunteered to make donations for families of 2 Sindh policemen &amp; 1 security guard who sacrificed lives for protection of Chinese Consulate General in Karachi. <a href="https://t.co/XJz6pQQfqx">pic.twitter.com/XJz6pQQfqx</a></p>&mdash; Lijian Zhao 赵立坚 (@zlj517) <a href="

https://twitter.com/x/status/1066535089985765376

">November 25, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[The Accountant]

Thanks for your input. This is a much better statement by Pakistanis. China always hope for the better of South Asia region and will always ensure Pakistanis can always be lead or keep in place when comes to military edge.

Actually what fan boys don't understand that war is not about emotions its all about winning ... In a battlefield does it matter that from where we got the weapon? The only thing that matter is who makes the kill ... The whole Afghan War was fought with USSR's weapon to be used against USSR ... Does this make any difference ? Afghan won ... USSR destroyed

Job of your military and our military is to keep us safe and progressing so discussion like this technology was got from here or from there is useless and counterproductive ... Its the talk of school going kids ...

For the military planners only the end result matters as wars are not fair its all about blood and death so keep on making yourself strong no matter from where and how ...

Infact I believe if J10 somehow got US technology then it is even more humiliating for US that their own tech can be used against them ... This is a loss of US and gain of CHina

 

[LKJ86]

Infact I believe if J10 somehow got US technology then it is even more humiliating for US that their own tech can be used against them ... This is a loss of US and gain of CHina

In fact, many people don't understand why China's weapons develop so rapidly, and they choose simply to believe that China just steals the technology from the west.

But they have forgotten the fact that, China owns a complete military industrial system independently, and has huge investment of talent and capital. When a new concept comes out in the world, China can realize it by herself very soon. And many other countries can't do that job.

 

[sinait]

Actually what fan boys don't understand that war is not about emotions its all about winning ... In a battlefield does it matter that from where we got the weapon? The only thing that matter is who makes the kill ... The whole Afghan War was fought with USSR's weapon to be used against USSR ... Does this make any difference ? Afghan won ... USSR destroyed

Job of your military and our military is to keep us safe and progressing so discussion like this technology was got from here or from there is useless and counterproductive ... Its the talk of school going kids ...

For the military planners only the end result matters as wars are not fair its all about blood and death so keep on making yourself strong no matter from where and how ...

Infact I believe if J10 somehow got US technology then it is even more humiliating for US that their own tech can be used against them ... This is a loss of US and gain of CHina

You do not understand how the Chinese feel.
Yes, there are those that copy, especially in the fashion industry.
But aerospace products cannot be copied by sight alone.

It is NOT easily copied even if you had all the blueprints as BOEING has demonstrated that even changing to a slightly larger engine for the Max 8 required extensive redesign.
Shortcomings in their redesign have proved to be fatal twice over.
Should have given the job to the Chinese Engineers.

No nation aspiring to be among the top can depend on copying or stealing.
This is the US way to denigrate and demoralize their peer competitors.

Put yourself in the shoes of those engineers who put so much blood and effort to produce world class products but accused of stealing and copying.
Contrary to what Western propaganda have you believe, INTEGRITY and PRIDE in their work IS IMPORTANT to the Chinese.

The Chinese are MORE THAN COMPETENT to design and build their fighter jets.
No stealing is required.
Whereas the US STEALS talent all over the world.
If you check out the top US University IT and Maths competition teams you will find many Chinese there.

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2017-1...ction-of-MITs-new-Wright-Brothers-Wind-Tunnel
first Boeing engineer, Wong Tsu, who designed Boeing's first commercially successful airplane, the Model C, in 1916.

https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime...man-who-got-u-s-aircraft-giant-boeing-flying/

The Chinese Birdman Who Got U.S. Aircraft Giant Boeing Flying
Gary Locke, the Chinese-American former Washington governor and U.S. ambassador to China, recalled the engineer’s story and asked Mr. Xi to remember that there are “many engineers and machinists working at Boeing who are Chinese.”
.

 

[BHarwana]

J-10 has Lavi's footprint all over it. Atlas was heavily involved with IAI during the design e.g. that is where all aspect HMS came from. Wind tunnel model tests were also being done here.

Both J-10 and Lavi had nothing to do with Israel.

 

[airmarshal]

BS, that is LAVI wind tunnel and not J-10.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-9

China has longed invested in canard design in the 70s but metallurgy and lack of high power engine stop the development. There is indeed thru interaction between IAI and Chengdu but try imply all efforts are thru espionage and data from IAI Lavi just show the immerse ignorance about aviation design. Digital FBW cannot be copy, anybody in military aviation bg knows that. They are unique flying program that special tailor or a particular aircraft. Even a small amount of aerodyanamic changes need full revamp of the program. LAVI and J-10 are different in size and not to mention different canard positioning plus different air inlet design.

The Digital FBW plus aerodyanmic designing needs to be a total Chinese effort as even Israel cannot complete LAVI project themselves without US sofftware and further support.

If China military is all about copy and following others behind. I guess JF-17 will have long been shot down by SU-30MKI and Mig-21 Bison in 27 Februrary encountered and not to mention JF-17 is not the best that Chinese designed. KLJ-7 radar of JF-17 is a step below KLJ-10 of J-10. This is fact.

A step below doesnt mean its inferior to many others. Just that CHinese radar is simply too good. Su-30MKI and bison radar are overhyped while Chinese radar are always under estimated.

A lot of misinformation about China and Russia in media and people naively pick up those lines and express them. In mainstream media, things are over simplified.

Just recently, JF-17 shot down MiG-21 and Su-30. Both these aircraft have been modified with Israeli and French avionics. Unlike Pakistan, India has access to all possible technology. Yet Chinese technology in Pakistani hands emphatically won that day.

As for 'copying' charge. It may or may not be true. Even if Chinese have copied or stolen, its still legitimate. Go back in history. American missile/space program was run by a German engineer, Von Braun, who developed V-2 for Nazis. American did not steal. They brought the scientist with them. Also a lot of post war technologies were influenced by experiences in WW2. All countries in that war benefited from them. Like A-10 tank killer was inspired by Ju-87.

 

[Beast]

You do not understand how the Chinese feel.
Yes, there are those that copy, especially in the fashion industry.
But aerospace products cannot be copied by sight alone.

It is NOT easily copied even if you had all the blueprints as BOEING has demonstrated that even changing to a slightly larger engine for the Max 8 required extensive redesign.
Shortcomings in their redesign have proved to be fatal twice over.
Should have given the job to the Chinese Engineers.

No nation aspiring to be among the top can depend on copying or stealing.
This is the US way to denigrate and demoralize their peer competitors.

Put yourself in the shoes of those engineers who put so much blood and effort to produce world class products but accused of stealing and copying.
Contrary to what Western propaganda have you believe, INTEGRITY and PRIDE in their work IS IMPORTANT to the Chinese.

The Chinese are MORE THAN COMPETENT to design and build their fighter jets.
No stealing is required.
Whereas the US STEALS talent all over the world.
If you check out the top US University IT and Maths competition teams you will find many Chinese there.

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2017-1...ction-of-MITs-new-Wright-Brothers-Wind-Tunnel
first Boeing engineer, Wong Tsu, who designed Boeing's first commercially successful airplane, the Model C, in 1916.

https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime...man-who-got-u-s-aircraft-giant-boeing-flying/

The Chinese Birdman Who Got U.S. Aircraft Giant Boeing Flying
Gary Locke, the Chinese-American former Washington governor and U.S. ambassador to China, recalled the engineer’s story and asked Mr. Xi to remember that there are “many engineers and machinists working at Boeing who are Chinese.”
.

I do believe some ideas are borrow from LAVI and exchange of ideas between IAI and Chengdu but those input are very minimal in the outcome of J-10. The Chinese engineers put a lot of hardwork and own effort to get J-10 materialize. What @ziaulislam imply is no bulk effort is from Chinese with mere assemble ,borrow idea and massive stealing to get what Chinese achieve today. That is an extreme disrespect and ignorant statement. It is an white washed of massive effort from Chinese engineer and Pakistanis counterpart who sacrifice massive of their effort and time for national projects. Its an insult to these heroes. Insult to Chinese and PAF JF-17 project.

A lot of misinformation about China and Russia in media and people naively pick up those lines and express them. In mainstream media, things are over simplified.

Just recently, JF-17 shot down MiG-21 and Su-30. Both these aircraft have been modified with Israeli and French avionics. Unlike Pakistan, India has access to all possible technology. Yet Chinese technology in Pakistani hands emphatically won that day.

As for 'copying' charge. It may or may not be true. Even if Chinese have copied or stolen, its still legitimate. Go back in history. American missile/space program was run by a German engineer, Von Braun, who developed V-2 for Nazis. American did not steal. They brought the scientist with them. Also a lot of post war technologies were influenced by experiences in WW2. All countries in that war benefited from them. Like A-10 tank killer was inspired by Ju-87.

Copying feature and ideas has very little outcome for a completion of a big project especially aeronautical. There are large number of self effort needs to put in to complete it. It has no substitute by copying. These are even more difficult than licensed produce which has all the necessary assist from original manufacturer. I guess I need not explain more.

Like Iran Shahed 129 which may not be the most dated aircraft but everything from manufacturing and tooling needs to be figure out by Iranian themselves with no assist. Joking or insulting these projects just show the shallow of these fools who are armchair troll with no knowledge in military projects.

 

[BHarwana]

Lavi was not Israeli design but they bought the design and were never able to finish the program.

Here is the actual jet design from Eastern Europe.

 

[The Accountant]

You do not understand how the Chinese feel.
Yes, there are those that copy, especially in the fashion industry.
But aerospace products cannot be copied by sight alone.

It is NOT easily copied even if you had all the blueprints as BOEING has demonstrated that even changing to a slightly larger engine for the Max 8 required extensive redesign.
Shortcomings in their redesign have proved to be fatal twice over.
Should have given the job to the Chinese Engineers.

No nation aspiring to be among the top can depend on copying or stealing.
This is the US way to denigrate and demoralize their peer competitors.

Put yourself in the shoes of those engineers who put so much blood and effort to produce world class products but accused of stealing and copying.
Contrary to what Western propaganda have you believe, INTEGRITY and PRIDE in their work IS IMPORTANT to the Chinese.

The Chinese are MORE THAN COMPETENT to design and build their fighter jets.
No stealing is required.
Whereas the US STEALS talent all over the world.
If you check out the top US University IT and Maths competition teams you will find many Chinese there.

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2017-1...ction-of-MITs-new-Wright-Brothers-Wind-Tunnel
first Boeing engineer, Wong Tsu, who designed Boeing's first commercially successful airplane, the Model C, in 1916.

https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime...man-who-got-u-s-aircraft-giant-boeing-flying/

The Chinese Birdman Who Got U.S. Aircraft Giant Boeing Flying
Gary Locke, the Chinese-American former Washington governor and U.S. ambassador to China, recalled the engineer’s story and asked Mr. Xi to remember that there are “many engineers and machinists working at Boeing who are Chinese.”
.

Bro what I am saying whatever you achieve is the only thing matters ... Actually by engaging into discussion that how you achieve it is damaging your reputation ... Dont engage in such useless discussion ... Your achievements are bigger than that ... Those people who think that by copying aerospace technology can be achieved are not worth replying ...

 

[sinait]

Bro what I am saying whatever you achieve is the only thing matters ... Actually by engaging into discussion that how you achieve it is damaging your reputation ... Dont engage in such useless discussion ... Your achievements are bigger than that ... Those people who think that by copying aerospace technology can be achieved are not worth replying ...

The Chinese take pride in having done their job well with their own efforts.
You must understand the Chinese or rather East Asians have different priorities and "face" or reputation matters to them.

They rightly feel indignant at having their efforts being trivialized by no other than a person from a closely allied nation.
China and Chinese are generally business minded, but nevertheless they were willing to stand up for their all weather friend repeatedly in the UNSC notwithstanding the negative repercussions.

And yes, it is sometimes better not to respond, but I think this is one more opportunity to put the Chinese POV forward for those who are deluged with US propaganda.
.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

What do you want me to say that china has junk material?

Or do you want me to say china had superior weapons in 1990s..?

My whole post was about how china has came long way!

he is challenged by language barrier and lack of basic social skills

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Possibly Thanks to Israel.
no thanks to chinese ingenuity.