China using Pak to slow India's rise

[huzihaidao12]

It's more than killing when you can't follow your very culture in your own country. Just see the case of Bangladesh.

What really irks me, our homegrown commies never utter a single word for Tibetan cause but they will cry a river if someone dies in Cuba or Venezuela.

Indeed communist fanatics are as bad as religious fanatics.

You really do not know anything to China and China Tibet. If you go to Tibet, you will know how the cause of Tibet's religion flourished. But some people's greed is never satisfied, which is why most of the Western press about LAMA, rather than ordinary Tibetans.

 

[BigTree.CN]

Man, reading this sort of stupid posts makes me want to campaign at GoI to change their Tibet policy. How ungrateful can one get?

I appreciate GoI's officlal stance over Tibet, but i resent the dirty work India is doing behind that official stance by supporting those thieves. That is duplicity, it is worse than taking a different stance.

I have stated before, you can use your vote to force your lovely government to reverse its stance over Tibet. But before that, you should keep in mind that you recognize Tibet is China's land, then your action need to be consistent with that recognition.

I have met a lot of Indians on Internet, most of them refuse to accept the fact that Tibet belongs to China. Some Indian here just shouted out India will keep on supporting the Tibetan secessionist and freeing Tibet, he is pretty much the epitome of many Indians.

So don't try to threaten me with your campaign at GoI to change your Tibet policy, you have been doing that for a long time.

We are hosting millions of refugees of your country, providing them shelter and here you teach us what's legal and illegal?

First, hiding behind the mask of humanity won't help you when we are talking about intenational politics.

Second, do you really believe India accommodated those Tibetans out of humanity? Are you trying to fool yourself or are you to fool us? India's motive behind the decision of harbouring those secessionist is clear, India thinks Tibet is a useful card when playing with China.

Similar opinions are echoed by Indians who are active in Indian defence forums. Indians who are commenting on Tibet in their own forums are much more blunt than you, few of them believe the crap that India hosts those Tibetan out of humanity. Even your own compatriotes don't buy this bullsh!t, you want to sell it to us?

Tell me genius, when the last time GoI actively supported any anti-China group acting from India? Sorry we can't shoot people or roll a tank on them because you find them unacceptable.

First, you are insinuating that China had done something like rolling a tank over people, give me a picture that shows Chinese tanks are rolling over people.

Second, i have clearly said in the analogy i made, what India is doing is like hosting a thief. Hosting a thief is breaking the law.

 

[SaifullahK]

Pakistani being more Chinese than the Chinese themselves.

My Indian friend take a deep breath and read this carefully. If you stay calm you will understand that it's completely true:

You say I am being more Chinese than the Chinese themselves. Some Chinese posters are diplomatic, but respected Chinese members like BigTree.CN are doing you a favour by telling you the reality: China does not consider itself bound by any rules vis-a-vis India.

Take the Mumbai 26/11 attack. Indians were jumping up and down demanding action against Hafeez Saeed and Lashkar-e-Toiba. What happened? Hafeez Saeed Saheb is going around recruiting more freedom fighters for Jihad in India.

What could India do about it? Nothing. Why? Because Pakistan would have nuked you. We are not shy of admitting that if Pakistan has emerged as a nuclear power on the world stage, it is because of Chinese assistance.

Does China approve of this? Don't forget that China has used its UN veto many times to protect the Jamaat-ud-Dawa freedom fighters.

India could not do anything, and if there is another Mumbai attack, India will continue to be helpless.

So next time a Chinese friend tell you that the game is being played without any rules, you should take it seriously.

 

[huzihaidao12]

It doesn't matter ,as long as I never requested it .I'm interested in your views and perspectives and in carrying on the debate , not in trivia.

Do share more of your opinions on the subject at hand .....

Thank you for understanding.

 

[BigTree.CN]

I don't recall Tibetan separatists engaging PLA or blowing themselves up in Chinese streets.

You already call them separatists, what more do you need to argue?

Besides, your argument is really clueless. Does that mean your definition of separatism is engaging PLA or blowing themselves up in Chinese streets? That is quite a narrow-minded head.

Tibet is a solved matter,India officially recognizes Tibet as a part of China.

Damn right. But why harbouring the so-called Tibetan government-in-exile in India? Why are there still so many Indians shouting the slogan of "free Tibet"?

Dalai Lama,is a refuge seeker,and he is allowed to stay as long as he preaches religion rather than politics.

Honesty is the foundation of a decent discussion. You need to learn that from the Indians who are active in your forum.

Any free Tibet rally or demonstrations are prohibited and protesters arrested.

Seting up a Tibaten government-in-exile is the most blatant free Tibet demonstration, are you going to ignore that?

Your country needles India on Kashmir to please Pakistan,nothing more.

We stick with our stance over Kashmir, which is Kashmire is a disputed land between you two. That is a pretty neutral policy, i think. If we recognize it belongs to India, then we are disrespecting the Paksitani people.

 

[LaBong]

My answer.




It is simple to clear, who put his people as the enemy? Those Tibetan serf-owners in India, or China? What did they do to their people? what we do in Tibet.? Reality is always more to the facts than rhetoric.

Look I have no problem if Tibetans live happily in China. It's kind of funny that you're making it a point to defense. It's your countrymen, they should also have the same economic leverage any other Chinese are getting in Sanghai or Beijing. If you make economically developed Tibet where they can freely follow their culture, all the best to you and Tibetans.

But don't tell us how to behave with those seeking asylum to my country until they are indulging any criminal activity in China. And don't effing compare India's Tibet policy with Kashmir. You'll get the taste of Kashmir if some fanatics blow themselves up in your cities or kill innocent people indiscriminately in Hotels and Hospitals.

 

[LaBong]

BigTree.CN, my reply to huzihaidao12 applies to you as well, not taking the extra pain of repeating same stuff again and again.

 

[BigTree.CN]

Actually it's the Chinese who need to question themselves why their own countrymen have to fled to country which they consider an enemy state, that is, if they consider Tibetans their countrymen at all!

No doubt China needs to deliberate on its policy toward Tibet. It's our duty to curb the secessionism in Tibet, but how could we stop those separatists when India at the same time is barbouring them and protecting them?

 

[LaBong]

No doubt China needs to deliberate on its policy toward Tibet. It's our duty to curb the secessionism in Tibet, but how could we stop those separatists when India at the same time is barbouring them and protecting them?

What part of "Tibetans are not allowed to indulge in any political or rebellious activity against China, in India" is hard to understand? India will and have been providing asylum to those in need. Do you see Iran points finger to us because of the large Zoroastrian community we have?

Do you have any prove of Tibetans doing any anti-China activity in India or only blabbering out of nothing? Even Dalai Lama accepted Chinese rule over Tibet but there's no pleasing of you guys.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Look I have no problem if Tibetans live happily in China. It's kind of funny that you're making it a point to defense. It's your countrymen, they should also have the same economic leverage any other Chinese are getting in Sanghai or Beijing. If you make economically developed Tibet where they can freely follow their culture, all the best to you and Tibetans.

But don't tell us how to behave with those seeking asylum to my country until they are indulging any criminal activity in China. And don't effing compare India's Tibet policy with Kashmir. You'll get the taste of Kashmir if some fanatics blow themselves up in your cities or kill innocent people indiscriminately in Hotels and Hospitals.

Fair enough. The GoI accepts Tibet as a part of China (as does every other country on Earth), and I see no evidence that they are actively helping to promote separatism in China.

The point is, that the mere existence of the "Tibetan government in exile" within Indian borders, is something that could "potentially" be used against us, like a political chip.

Which is why the Chinese government keeps their own political chips to counter it, such as claims over Arunachal Pradesh. Such counter-moves are often seen as "bullying" by the other side, but at the end of the day, it is just geopolitics. It is never personal.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Chinese rule over Tibet but there's no pleasing of you guys.

True, the Dalai Lama "officially" accepts that Tibet is a part of China. In retrospect it could have been a lot worse, we could have ended up with an extremist as the Dalai Lama, which would have caused a lot of headaches.

I think there needs to be more engagement with THIS Dalai Lama before he dies. Succession could end up being a problem.

He says that he wants more "autonomy" for Tibet, not independence. The problem is that giving autonomy to Tibet at THIS moment, might end up increasing unrest. Ideally, autonomy should be given to regions that are already stable, like Hong Kong. It is definitely a future possibility for Tibet, but at this moment it doesn't seem likely.

 

[LaBong]

Fair enough. The GoI accepts Tibet as a part of China (as does every other country on Earth), and I see no evidence that they are actively helping to promote separatism in China.

The point is, that the mere existence of the "Tibetan government in exile" within Indian borders, is something that could "potentially" be used against us, like a political chip.

Which is why the Chinese government keeps their own political chips to counter it, such as claims over Arunachal Pradesh. Such counter-moves are often seen as "bullying" by the other side, but at the end of the day, it is just geopolitics. It is never anything personal.

But "Tibetan Govt in Exile" isn't recognized by GoI, neither GoI helps them politically or by any other means.

I do think GoI shouldn't use Tibetans as a bargaining chip in negotiations. We have cultural ties with them that is as old as time, I don't want to see another Kashmir in Tibet.

 

[BigTree.CN]

Hopefully this clears up the confusion about the Indian support for Dalai Lama as you put it......

See India is a democracy, and I mean a democracy in a literal sense of the term.We have a constitution which guarantees

1) freedom of debate to everyone irrespective of whether it insults any country, individual , state , state representative , any form of authority , any institution .....

2) Freedom of political activity , holding processions , strikes ,demonstrations

3) Freedom of movement of all residents in any part of India, abroad ....

4) Freedom of meeting any individual , representative of government ,state dignitary etc.

and these rights are guaranteed to all including the Dalai Lama and every -one of his followers as it is to all Indians .
There is no way these can be taken away by the government , not even under exceptional circumstances , ( except maybe for a military emergency )....and certainly not on ordinary matters like in order to appease a foreign state . This is similar to any other western democracy in the world.

I 've already explained that expecting India to expel the Tibetan would be like expecting us to compromise on our national soveriegnty.

That which is in the power of the Government i.e stopping all armed activities overtly or covertly directed to challenge Chinese control over Tibet, declaring Tibet is an integral part of China ....has already been done by the Indian Government.

for instance during the Sri Lankan civil war , a huge number of people in the state of Tamil Nadu were against Govt policies on support to the Sri Lankan Govt and openly expressed their dissent.They could not be stopped from using their right of free expression.
Again , at the moment Barack Obama is in India and there are a huge number of communist party supporters against the visit who are holding demonstrations and expressing their disapproval. Neither can they be stopped from doing so.

Coming from a different political system in China where there is relative uniformity in both administration and opinion, it may be difficult to visualize why the Indian Government cannot "control Tibetan Protesters " like the Chinese government does many of its dissidents but that is a characteristic of our pluralistic and tolerant society .......and no government in New Delhi can do anything that contravenes this .

So officially we 've done all that could be done , but what you are asking is not within the power of the Government to do.....

@all indian members
I don't care if you are a democracy or not. I don't care if you can expel those Tibetan or not. I don't care for whatever reason you are hosting those separatists.

What India is doing is interfering with China's internal affairs. Whatever excuses you have, you can't justify that.

And to be honest, i don't expect you to incriminate your immoral behavior, because Indian are too obsessed with that pathetic and inexistent moral ground. Nor do i expect you to rectify that mistake in a near future, because breaking rules are ingrained in Indian blood.

But i hope when China plays a tit for tat for your duplicity over Tibet issue, you won't cry like you are crying in this thread.

Period.

 

[BigTree.CN]

What part of "Tibetans are not allowed to indulge in any political or rebellious activity against China, in India" is hard to understand? India will and have been providing asylum to those in need. Do you see Iran points finger to us because of the large Zoroastrian community we have?

Do you have any prove of Tibetans doing any anti-China activity in India or only blabbering out of nothing? Even Dalai Lama accepted Chinese rule over Tibet but there's no pleasing of you guys.

The existence of that Tibetan government-in-exile in India is a plain evidence of anti-China activity in your country.

What more proof do i need?

How about we set up a Sikkim government-in-exile in China?

 

[LaBong]

@all indian members
I don't care if you are a democracy or not. I don't care if you can expel those Tibetan or not. I don't care for whatever reason you are hosting those separatists.

What India is doing is interfering with China's internal affairs. Whatever excuses you have, you can't justify that.

And to be honest, i don't expect you to incriminate your immoral behavior, because Indian are too obsessed with that pathetic and inexistent moral ground. Nor do i expect you to rectify that mistake in a near future, because breaking rules are ingrained in Indian blood.

But i hope when China plays a tit for tat for your duplicity over Tibet issue, you won't cry like you are crying in this thread.

Period.

You turned out to be just another troll beyond the Himalayas, needlessly wasted my time replying to you.