China- Tibet a long way conflict

[Tanja]

Hi there,
As many Nordic countries, Helsinki is peaceful and quiet. But you know, we still follow the world news everyday.

 

[Tanja]

So you would rather Tibet go back to a medieval theocracy, ruled by the religious leaders with 99% of the Tibetans' life literally is just worth a straw rope in the eyes of these monks? I think it is better to clarify that you are on the side of Tibetan dictators rather than on the side of Tibetan people.

Tibetan people. I supposed. thanks for your information

Hi guys, this is the second part


Core cause of the conflict

Understandably, the conflict between China and Tibet is regarded as the ethnic/ religious conflict. This is due to the prominence of the two main ethnicity and religion issues raised over the conflict.

Firstly, the native inhabitants living in Tibet are Tibetans, while the majority of ethnic group in China are Han Chinese people. The Chinese government are made up with Han Chinese people, and they have not been keen at dealing with ethnic minorities over their long history, so as to Tibetans.

Secondly, the issue to be mentioned is the religion difference. Generally, all Tibetans are Buddhists, meanwhile, Han Chinese are not. Furthermore, Chinese government tends to take control of religious movements, in particular, those with large number of followers and which are seen with potential possibility to convert to political movements along with threats to the regime power. Chinese government considers Tibetan Buddhism as one of those “dangerous” religious movements.

Thus, the rest of the world may see Tibet conflict as a picture of intense religious and ethnic conflict. However, those are just the residual causes or even consequences of the real causes of the conflict.

Accordingly, there is no such inherent reason that ethnicity or religion could cause violent conflict- in Tibet or anywhere. What really cause the conflict in Tibet are history and geography, Chinese security and sovereignty concerns and the policies that Chinese government applies in Tibet.

17 point ‘Agreement on measures for the peaceful liberation of Tibet’ and the Dalai Lama fled to India in 1959

In 1950, China sent armed forces to Tibet, and forced Tibetan government to sign a contract, which gave the Chinese government the right to escape military over Tibet. The contract referred to the 17 points ‘Agreement on measures for the peaceful liberation of Tibet’ document. In the document, China officially accepts the difference of the Tibet’s unique history and culture.


Read more at:

http://www.fnotw.org/Article/Full/4817

 

[tranquilium]

Tibetan people. I supposed. thanks for your information

I would like to challenge the "they have not been keen at dealing with ethnic minorities over their long history" part of your opinion. China, unlike European descended cultures, is a homogeneous culture because it is very good at dealing with different cultural group and integrating them into the main group.

What keeps ethnic groups separate from each other? The short answer is "difference". Differences in skin color, religion, education, social status, political power. All these are factors that prevent ethnic group from integrating with each other. Let's see how the Chinese people deal with these difference:

1. Skin color: The Chinese has no problem marrying people from other ethnic groups and after mixing for a few generations, there is practical no difference with the groups. Indeed, all 56 ethnic groups in China pretty much look the same.
2. Religion: China is a secular government since the times of Zhou dynasty, which runs as early as 1000 BC. Unlike Europe and middle east, where religion is a powerful force in the society, the Chinese has always treat religion as hobby. Christianity has been in China since Tang dynasty and Islam was there shortly after it was founded. Yet you will never see the kind of religious conflicts experienced by Europeans and Arabs. The Chinese also won't bat an eye if a married couple has different religions simply because it is just not that important for Chinese.
3. Education/political power: The Chinese culture is unique that it jumped straight into absolute monarchy after only limited time in feudalism. This is done by aggressively pushing for general education, even during the ancient time. As a result, nobility never really got off the ground because there is no way by the wealthy groups to withhold knowledge from commoners. Chinese selects administrator, generals and indeed pretty much all positions that command political power via general exam. This means blood line and ethnicity simply does not matter when it comes to political power and wealth. In fact, the only hereditary position in ancient China is the emperor, but even then the emperor's power is outright stated to be justified the ruler's competence rather than divine right.

Knowing this, you can see why the Chinese government doesn't get along with certain Tibetan monks, but get along pretty well with the common Tibetan people. Prior to PRC assuming control in Tibet, the monk caste was the absolute ruler of Tibet. It rule was hereditary, justified not through competence, but through religious dogma. To maintain its dominance on the common Tibetan people, the monk caste also aggressively withheld basic education to the people. Basically, there has all the hall marks of a stagnant medieval theocracy.

In comparison, PRC brought in education, road, railway, electricity, food, water and pretty much all features of progressive society to Tibet. Indeed, from 1959 and 2008, the Tibet (ethnic group) population more than tripled in size and the population of the Tibetan region itself increased by 1.8 times. The life span also increased by 31 years (from 36 to 67). The literacy rate increased from 5% to 98.8%.

Are there conflicts between Han Chinese and Tibetan Chinese? Yes, there are. Are the conflicts going to stay for a long time similar to the ethnic conflicts experienced by Europeans or Americans? Not likely at all.

 

[MeshFree]

Are only buddhist creating problem in tibet then.

Historically Buddhists are the high and ruling class in Tibet. Although central government rule Tibet but this kind of rule is through the high class in Tibet. Most of the Tibetan is farm-slave. The rule of Buddhist over farm-slave is very cruel, you can search this on the internet.

What CCP did in the 1950s was destroying the high class and freeing the farm-slave. In this process the high Buddhist class lost their privileges over other Tibetan. That's why they were against Chinese government from then on. Dalai rebelled afterwards but was put down quickly. He fled abroad, and has done whatever he could to bring sh1t on China.

And this right thing, has been used as propaganda by some countries, in order to mess up China. Some people who cannot make their own judgement believe this propaganda. Anyone really caring for Tibetan people should make some comparison between the situation in Tibet now and sixty years ago.

Of course, for some people bring up this issue for some reason other than really caring about ordinary Tibetan people, you are also welcome. If you want an enemy, we are trying to be a GOOD enemy.

 

[bolo]

No point educating Indians. dumb as a wall but funny as hell (in a bad way)

 

[S10]

No point educating Indians. dumb as a wall but funny as hell (in a bad way)

It's cruel to deny Indians their dreams, since they got nothing else going for them compared to China.

 

[Springfield]

Historically Buddhists are the high and ruling class in Tibet. Although central government rule Tibet but this kind of rule is through the high class in Tibet. Most of the Tibetan is farm-slave. The rule of Buddhist over farm-slave is very cruel, you can search this on the internet.

What CCP did in the 1950s was destroying the high class and freeing the farm-slave. In this process the high Buddhist class lost their privileges over other Tibetan. That's why they were against Chinese government from then on. Dalai rebelled afterwards but was put down quickly. He fled abroad, and has done whatever he could to bring sh1t on China.

And this right thing, has been used as propaganda by some countries, in order to mess up China. Some people who cannot make their own judgement believe this propaganda. Anyone really caring for Tibetan people should make some comparison between the situation in Tibet now and sixty years ago.

Of course, for some people bring up this issue for some reason other than really caring about ordinary Tibetan people, you are also welcome. If you want an enemy, we are trying to be a GOOD enemy.

I think maybe; you can sum up the situation in Tibet 60 years age as; a Shangri-La for the top maybe 5-10%, surprising that the monks and monasteries belong to this group/class; the balance maybe 90-95%, commoner and serfs; live their existence worse than cattle.

 

[S10]

Myth: China is following a "genocide" policy against Tibetans.
Fact: Tibetan population in Tibet, Sichuan and Qinghai more than doubled since 1949. What kind of genocide doubles the population growth of the intended target?

Myth: China is moving Han people to displace local Tibetans.
Fact: Han people residing in Tibet comprise of less than 7% of the population in Tibet, roughly 20,000 out of 3.2 million. Even if you include military and police, that's still under 10% of the total population. Not much of a displacement if Han people only managed to rise to 7% in 60 years is it?

Myth: China regularly oppress Tibetans.
Fact: Tibetans today live better than any other period in history. Literacy rate, life expectancy, median income are all up. Education and healthcare coverage are available at better terms than Han people. University entrance standard is easier. Most government jobs are reserved for the locals. When facing criminal charges, they generally receive more lenient sentence due to a policy enacted in 1984 called "两少一宽".

So if it's all so great, why do some Tibetans regularly protest and self-immolate against the government administration? Well, I don't know. Do you know why Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan won't adopt modern ways of life?

 

[bolo]

Myth: China is following a "genocide" policy against Tibetans.
Fact: Tibetan population in Tibet, Sichuan and Qinghai more than doubled since 1949. What kind of genocide doubles the population growth of the intended target?

Myth: China is moving Han people to displace local Tibetans.
Fact: Han people residing in Tibet comprise of less than 7% of the population in Tibet, roughly 20,000 out of 3.2 million. Even if you include military and police, that's still under 10% of the total population. Not much of a displacement if Han people only managed to rise to 7% in 60 years is it?

TIbet is part of China. Han people can live anywhere in China as they want. the government should move more Han people to Tibet and Xinjiang.

We should not care what Westerners say because they are like Indians, all talk and all talk.

 

[faithfulguy]

He is not in Helsinki but somewhere in India.

I didn't know that there is Helsinki, India. Indian imperialism really stretch out far nowadays. Whereever their so call ICBM can reach, there is Indian imperialism.

 

[Partharjun]

Myth: China is following a "genocide" policy against Tibetans.
Fact: Tibetan population in Tibet, Sichuan and Qinghai more than doubled since 1949. What kind of genocide doubles the population growth of the intended target?

Myth: China is moving Han people to displace local Tibetans.
Fact: Han people residing in Tibet comprise of less than 7% of the population in Tibet, roughly 20,000 out of 3.2 million. Even if you include military and police, that's still under 10% of the total population. Not much of a displacement if Han people only managed to rise to 7% in 60 years is it?

Myth: China regularly oppress Tibetans.
Fact: Tibetans today live better than any other period in history. Literacy rate, life expectancy, median income are all up. Education and healthcare coverage are available at better terms than Han people. University entrance standard is easier. Most government jobs are reserved for the locals. When facing criminal charges, they generally receive more lenient sentence due to a policy enacted in 1984 called "两少一宽".

So if it's all so great, why do some Tibetans regularly protest and self-immolate against the government administration? Well, I don't know. Do you know why Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan won't adopt modern ways of life?

I realize that it is very difficult for the Chinese to understand that there is more to life beyond economic growth and shiny gadgets. Having been without political and mental freedom since long, the only "freedom" available to Chinese people is of the economic kind. This, they tend to extrapolate to the rest of the world.

I have a suggestion. Why doesn't China propose becoming a colony of the US. Your economic growth will zoom as the interests of the workshops and consumers converge. In the bargain you may also get to taste some other freedoms.

Tibetans are a different people with a totally different culture. They are not Chinese in any sense of the word. Why then should they reconcile to being ruled by China in exchange for some economic growth?

 

[grey boy 2]

I realize that it is very difficult for the Chinese to understand that there is more to life beyond economic growth and shiny gadgets. Having been without political and mental freedom since long, the only "freedom" available to Chinese people is of the economic kind. This, they tend to extrapolate to the rest of the world.

I have a suggestion. Why doesn't China propose becoming a colony of the US. Your economic growth will zoom as the interests of the workshops and consumers converge. In the bargain you may also get to taste some other freedoms.

Tibetans are a different people with a totally different culture. They are not Chinese in any sense of the word. Why then should they reconcile to being ruled by China in exchange for some economic growth?

Huh, a proud citizen from a well know "CASTE slave hole" lecturing others regarding "freedom"? is that an indian style practical joke? how about first get rid of your most backward, oppressive, evil "Caste system" first before shooting your trash?

Slaves usually come from the most vulnerable, minority or socially excluded groups. For instance, forced and bonded labour is often interlinked with the caste system in south Asia. Caste-based slavery is carried down through the generations, embedded in traditional beliefs and customs, and underpinned by cultural discrimination. Anti-Slavery International estimates that 80-98% of bonded labourers in the region are from dalit (formerly "untouchable") or indigenous communities. Migrant workers are also highly vulnerable.

Modern-day slavery: an explainer | Global development | theguardian.com

 

[S10]

I realize that it is very difficult for the Chinese to understand that there is more to life beyond economic growth and shiny gadgets. Having been without political and mental freedom since long, the only "freedom" available to Chinese people is of the economic kind. This, they tend to extrapolate to the rest of the world.

I have a suggestion. Why doesn't China propose becoming a colony of the US. Your economic growth will zoom as the interests of the workshops and consumers converge. In the bargain you may also get to taste some other freedoms.

Tibetans are a different people with a totally different culture. They are not Chinese in any sense of the word. Why then should they reconcile to being ruled by China in exchange for some economic growth?

Political and mental freedom? Where were those "freedom" for Tibetan serfs toiling like slaves under their Lama overlords? China has a great many cultures within its borders, and who are you to define what is and what is not Chinese? China has had an inseparable relationship with Tibet since the marriage of Princess Wencheng.

Can you feed your hungry masses with imaginary freedom? Can you cure their diseases with democracy? What good is "freedom" to those in poverty? Is "freedom" going to construct houses for them? Did I mention Tibetans were certainly a lot less "free" under the iron grip of the Lama ruling class?

Without a decent living standard, there is no dignity to freedom. China gave that to the Tibetan masses.

 

[Shinigami]

@Tanja please ignore the chinese bots. true to their IQ (which is probably faked) they are incapable of rational discussion and are only capable of india bashing which this website promotes.

outside the dumb bots and their cheerleaders, the whole world knows the tibet situation and its good to see someone bring it to light here. dont be surprised if the bots start attacking you and the cheerleaders like hapizz start calling you an indian false flagger. its all that hate that makes them talk that way

 

[Snomannen]

TIbet is part of China. Han people can live anywhere in China as they want. the government should move more Han people to Tibet and Xinjiang.

We should not care what Westerners say because they are like Indians, all talk and all talk.

In the other hand, Tibetan can live wherever they want in China as well.

No, we should really care what they say since it is bloody necessary to refute lies and rumors. The CCP is indeed bad, but Lama's Tibet wasn't better. Those posterity of Lamas and landlords escaped from Tibet to India pretend how nice they were/are and whitewash that Tibet was a "heaven". They cover the truth that they were the "high-class" in Tibet and they were slaver-owners (just like Indian caste system). And if you take a look of Tibetan history they were never peaceful ethnic as they claim.

I suggest people read more books like
Tibet mort ou vif,
Sky Burial: The Fate of Tibet, and
A History of Modern Tibet 1913-1951, The Demise of the Lamaist State
rather than listening to unilateral arguments and internet rumors.