China Testing Ballistic Missile ‘CARRIER-KILLER'

[below_freezing]

if it was a glancing hit, it wouldn't matter, but at mach 6 a metal basketball hitting any somewhat important part of the flight deck is probably going to be game over for the carrier.

at that speed, it'll be like a knife slicing through butter, and note that much of the energy is not just kinetic but thermal. if it hits a jet fuel storage...

just like how a 76 mm artillery shell hitting a lowflying plane... means it's a BAD day to be that unlucky pilot.

 

[manish123]

Good news, will force India to develop also so ultimately good for asia, bad for US hegemonistic designs.

 

[Gazzi]

The mere fact that the US is aware of Chinese developments and military expanse should scare the Chinese alone, clearly the US has made China as a clear threat and taking active action against it, by penetrating its research facilities.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

The mere fact that the US is aware of Chinese developments and military expanse should scare the Chinese alone, clearly the US has made China as a clear threat and taking active action against it, by penetrating its research facilities.

Nah, the Yankees and their Jewish Zionist masters declared all free-thinking people enemies (and subject to eradication) since the 1960s, so how is the situation different today?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Wonderful news that Chinese have began process to nullify the carrier fleet of India

 

[no_name]

At mach 6 it will turn steel into molten metal. The rod will leave a small hole at the top and then tear a large gap as it exit below the ship.

I don't think the guidance required with it will be easy, also more to worry about electronic countermeasures.

 

[gambit]

1) as in your example one explosion is alomst fatal,...

Try not to get hyperbolic.

...what about 2 or 3 hits.

There were multiple fires and there were actual damages to the flight deck itself.

2) how many spare runways are there on an AC and can they be repaired at the high sea? it's a make of steel, not concrete.

Rapid runway repair kits includes either steel or aluminum plankings strong enough to support even a 747.

Prefabricated panels for rapid runway repair and expedient airfield surfacing - Patent 4629358

1. Prefabricated plastic-composite portable panels, a plurality of which are jointed together to form expedient airfield surfacing and rapid runway repair, each panel comprising:

a. a plurality of substantially rectangular fiberglass plies impregnated, saturated and bonded together with a thermosetting polyester resin to form a substantially thin, flat, non-porous, laminar structure having low weight and shipping cube;

Try to understand that the above is only an example so do not nitpick the fact that the example contain fiberglass. For the USAF, there are units like Red Horse, Prime Ribs and Prime Beef teams trained in rapid runway repairs. For the US Navy, there is the world famous SeaBees. So have no doubt that the US Navy realized the importance of having well trained and supplied runway repair capability on an aircraft carrier. Just because China cannot do <something> that does not mean no one else can. I get a lot of that from the Iranians.

3)..without air support, let's say 1-2 hour, what are you going to use to intercept the imcomming fighters.

The DF-21 is supposed to be for when the attacker is too far for aircrafts.

4)try to read this
http://www.defence.pk/forums/weapon...-sci-fi-weapons-theyre-actually-building.html

if the 100KG "Rods from God" can "penetrate hardened nuclear missile silos", i think a 10KG or even 1KG Rod would be enough to penetrate the flight deck. and DF-21s can carry a 1.5 ton warhead to the 1000KM altitude, so that means there would be 150-1500 little babies.

or i could give you another example,
the kinetic energy of a shell fire by a 120mm tank gun is about 11 million joule, which is more then enougth to penetrate the 550mm armor of T72.
if a 1KG titanium rod flew at mach 6, the kinetic energy is 0.5*1*(6*340)^2= 2 million joule. do you thing the filght deck is repairable after hit by this little babies.

Try to be realistic...

If the DF-21's warhead descends from a suborbital altitude, it will be enveloped in a plasma cloud...

Space Shuttle thermal protection system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A hot shock wave is created in front of the vehicle, which deflects most of the heat and prevents the orbiter's surface from directly contacting the peak heat. Therefore reentry heating is largely convective heat transfer between the shock wave and the orbiter's skin through superheated plasma.

Plasma is not friendly to EM waves...

Piercing the Plasma: Ideas to Beat the Communications Blackout of Reentry: Scientific American

The problem arises when a speeding vehicle heats the air in front of it, ionizing it into plasma that blocks radio transmissions. It resembles the shock waves created when an airplane hits Mach 1 and breaks the sound barrier. In the case of reentering spacecraft and hypersonic aircraft, the plasma-shock boundaries form at speeds of about Mach 10. The space shuttle avoids the blackout because the craft’s broad underside leaves an open area in the plasma plume trailing behind, enabling communications and telemetry data to be relayed to Earth through a network of satellites. But smaller craft are completely engulfed by the plasma.

That means during the reentry, the DF-21's warhead will be blind if it has any type of sensor such as radar and/or infrared.

If this warhead is supposed to have some maneuverability during its descent, it MUST slow down in order for the sensor suite to work, let alone pick up anything, once the plasma cloud dissipated. The greater the descent speed, the less time available to make any course correction, therefore, most likely the warhead will have only one possible course correction.

From the time the warhead is at apogee to when it begins its descent, the fleet will have it on radar. In less then five seconds, the fleet can deploy enough chaff to create a radar view of several thousands square km. Same for IR with flares.

Sippican, Inc. - Offboard Countermeasures and Training Systems
Rafael Anti-Ship Missile Defense System - Decoys

...generate realistic targets, a few thousand of square meters in size, at ranges between 500 and 2000 meters from the ship.

Now do not nitpick the fact that these sources present themselves as 'cruise missile' defense. Chaff/flare decoys present themselves whenever there are transmitting/receiving sources from any direction, even if the sensor suite is from above.

By the time the warhead is free of the plasma cloud, its sensor suite will see nothing but a large electronic blanket below it. What is there for the warhead to make a course correction towards a target? Keep in mind that under this electronic blanket, the ship is also moving. Aircraft carriers conducting flight operations do not travel in a straight line but into the wind, that mean this prized target will be making unpredictable maneuvers.

Still think it is easy to hit a moving target with a ballistic weapon?

 

[Guest]

Try not to get hyperbolic.

There were multiple fires and there were actual damages to the flight deck itself.

Rapid runway repair kits includes either steel or aluminum plankings strong enough to support even a 747 to operate.

Try to understand that the above is only an example so do not nitpick the fact that the example contain fiberglass. For the USAF, there are units like Red Horse, Prime Ribs and Prime Beef teams trained in rapid runway repairs. For the US Navy, there is the world famous SeaBees. So have no doubt that the US Navy realized the importance of having well trained and supplied runway repair capability on an aircraft carrier. Just because China cannot do <something> that does not mean no one else can. I get a lot of that from the Iranians.

no doubt? source? or why the repaire of enterpricse took about 2 months even at Pearl Harbor, if a quick repair is easy and strong enought for a 747.

The DF-21 is supposed to be for when the attacker is too far for aircrafts.

oh yes, DF-21 is supposed to attack a target that is 1500km away, right!
1500-300( C803 for instance)=1200km, it would take 70-80 minute for a commercial plane to fly, how long will it take for a fighter or fighter bomber to get there?

Try to be realistic...

If the DF-21's warhead descends from a suborbital altitude, it will be enveloped in a plasma cloud...

Space Shuttle thermal protection system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Plasma is not friendly to EM waves...

Piercing the Plasma: Ideas to Beat the Communications Blackout of Reentry: Scientific American

That means during the reentry, the DF-21's warhead will be blind if it has any type of sensor such as radar and/or infrared.

If this warhead is supposed to have some maneuverability during its descent, it MUST slow down in order for the sensor suite to work, let alone pick up anything, once the plasma cloud dissipated. The greater the descent speed, the less time available to make any course correction, therefore, most likely the warhead will have only one possible course correction.

From the time the warhead is at apogee to when it begins its descent, the fleet will have it on radar. In less then five seconds, the fleet can deploy enough chaff to create a radar view of several thousands square km. Same for IR with flares.

Sippican, Inc. - Offboard Countermeasures and Training Systems
Rafael Anti-Ship Missile Defense System - Decoys

Now do not nitpick the fact that these sources present themselves as 'cruise missile' defense. Chaff/flare decoys present themselves whenever there are transmitting/receiving sources from any direction, even if the sensor suite is from above.

By the time the warhead is free of the plasma cloud, its sensor suite will see nothing but a large electronic blanket below it. What is there for the warhead to make a course correction towards a target? Keep in mind that under this electronic blanket, the ship is also moving. Aircraft carriers conducting flight operations do not travel in a straight line but into the wind, that mean this prized target will be making unpredictable maneuvers.

Still think it is easy to hit a moving target with a ballistic weapon?

why the missiles need to "have some maneuverability during its descent"? the reentry process will be less then 2 minutes, how far can an AC sails? if one DF-21 can not cover the "huge" area, what about 10?
Just because US or Vetnam (or perhaps YOU only ) cannot do or even think of <something> that does not mean no one else can. (sorry for getting personal, i'm just returning the favour)

as to the huge area, let's see how huge it is?
30*1.8*(2/60)*1000= 1800 M. if each bomb (or whatever) need to cover 30Ms then it will need (1800/30) ^2=3600 to cover the entire area. suppose that an AC's flight deck is 300 long, so it will be hit by about 10 bombs. and if 5 hits (50Ms each) would be enough, the the bombs number would be reduced to 1300. which means, if you want to disable it (1kg bombs), 1 DF-21 is needed; if you want to sink it(10kg bombs), 10 DF21 is needed.


oh, BTW, may be there is some warhead that can "have some maneuverability during its descent", who konws.

 

[gambit]

no doubt? source? or why the repaire of enterpricse took about 2 months even at Pearl Harbor, if a quick repair is easy and strong enought for a 747.

You must be joking...!!!

Repairs under combat conditions are different than in peacetime. Repairs under combat conditions are usually less permanent, it is patchwork designed to get the car, the tank or the ship to complete the task at hand. So when the Enterprise suffered that accident in peacetime, of course repairs would take longer in order to be thorough to prepare the ship for an actual war.

oh yes, DF-21 is supposed to attack a target that is 1500km away, right!

Yes...Distance is why ballistic weapons are preferred.

1500-300( C803 for instance)=1200km, it would take 70-80 minute for a commercial plane to fly, how long will it take for a fighter or fighter bomber to get there?

Do not know. How capable is the PLAAF? Let me guess...You believe that afterburner fuel is plentiful?

why the missiles need to "have some maneuverability during its descent"?

If it want to hit a moving target...???

the reentry process will be less then 2 minutes, how far can an AC sails?

Thirty five knots per hr will be sufficient. Keep in mind that in a missile versus ship scenario, a one-meter miss mean the ship win.

if one DF-21 can not cover the "huge" area, what about 10?

What about 10? For cluster munitions, what is the release altitude? What is the dispersal pattern? What is the size of the individual bomblet? What is the shape of the individual bomblet? All of these affect that coverage area.

Just because YOU or US or Vetnam cannot do or even think of <something> that does not mean no one else can. (sorry for getting personal, i'm just returning the favour)

Who says the US cannot develop a ballistic weapon? The issue is hitting a moving target with a ballistic weapon, especially one that can put up a defense. This is not impossible but so far the DF-21 come up far short of that goal. Try again.

as to the huge area, let's see how huge it is?
30*1.8*(2/60)*1000= 1800 M. if each rod need to cover 30Ms then it will need (1800/30) ^2=3600 to cover the entire area. suppose that an AC's flight deck is 300 long, so it will be hit by about 10 bombs(or whatever). and if 5 hits (50Ms each) would be enough, the the bombs number would be reduced to 1300.


oh, BTW, may be there is some warhead that can "have some maneuverability during its descent", who konws.

Not interested in 'rod'.

 

[applesauce]

Df-21 anti ship doesnt exist wait for pla to say something, if they think its viable then there is something to it no matter how much we debate here

 

[gambit]

Df-21 anti ship doesnt exist wait for pla to say something, if they think its viable then there is something to it no matter how much we debate here

If the Chinese members here believe that the DF-21 exists, then it does exists.

 

[scuthan]

If the Chinese members here believe that the DF-21 exists, then it does exists.

American NAVY says it exists. the rumor about anti-ship DF21 variant has been hyped for years. PLA just keep silent.

We chinese thought it is a joke at the very beginning and reckon it as their trick to exert pressure on the congress in order to increase their budget. as reports began to accumulate, we got confused too.

 

[Guest]

You must be joking...!!!

Repairs under combat conditions are different than in peacetime. Repairs under combat conditions are usually less permanent, it is patchwork designed to get the car, the tank or the ship to complete the task at hand. So when the Enterprise suffered that accident in peacetime, of course repairs would take longer in order to be thorough to prepare the ship for an actual war.

well, that is not the point! the point is, please give me the evidences to support your argument: 1) have the capability 2)quick and 3)capabale to operate a 747. thx

Yes...Distance is why ballistic weapons are preferred.


Do not know. How capable is the PLAAF? Let me guess...You believe that afterburner fuel is plentiful?

correct me if i'm wrong, this is your 3rd assumptions base on nothing.
why afterburner?

If it want to hit a moving target...???


Thirty five knots per hr will be sufficient. Keep in mind that in a missile versus ship scenario, a one-meter miss mean the ship win.

if you are so sure about, try to dispute on the calculations i did, not "a one-meter miss mean the ship win". as i shown above, for a 300-meter-long ship, there would be a lots of margin for your "one meter miss"

What about 10? For cluster munitions, what is the release altitude? What is the dispersal pattern? What is the size of the individual bomblet? What is the shape of the individual bomblet? All of these affect that coverage area.

woo, you are interested in details about how it works now. if you are so sure about that it will definately don' t work, why brother! you know what, what you are saying is "well, it may worked, depending on ......"

Who says the US cannot develop a ballistic weapon? The issue is hitting a moving target with a ballistic weapon, especially one that can put up a defense. This is not impossible but so far the DF-21 come up far short of that goal. Try again.

can or can not, it doesn't matter. but did they? and how much do you know about DF-21 so as to make such a conclusion.

Not interested in 'rod'.

all right, no rods , bombs, happy. so your point is ?

 

[johnny boy]

for india's 50 year old carriers?

nah we'll sell some patrol boats, that'll be more than enough.

is china any match for usa??????????well simple answer is :::::::no....no...and hell no...........china is actually 25 percent of american military strength and that too most of their equipment is ageing........a bunch of missiles aint gonna do much harm.........plus if ur talking cruise missiles then america sarsenal is 5 times more than chinese........i just dont understand why is america givin so much atention to a country one fifth its power?????????????????????? i just dont seem to understand????????

 

[below_freezing]

is china any match for usa??????????well simple answer is :::::::no....no...and hell no...........china is actually 25 percent of american military strength and that too most of their equipment is ageing........a bunch of missiles aint gonna do much harm.........plus if ur talking cruise missiles then america sarsenal is 5 times more than chinese........i just dont understand why is america givin so much atention to a country one fifth its power?????????????????????? i just dont seem to understand????????

yeah, we are so weak

but you lost a war to us, horribly, with twice our casualties and the rest of your soldiers being taken prisoner. they were fed nicely though.

we are weaker than every country in the world except india, happy?