China red-flags India’s entry into NSG, may push for Pakistan

[ares]

Not at all.

Firstly, we don't elect our leaders, so we don't bear moral responsibility for what they do.

Secondly those people died due to a famine, i.e. lack of food. If you count that as murder then India is still murdering millions of people today.

Most importantly, the Indian people chose a mass murderer as their leader, voluntarily and with full knowledge of his crimes.

Like I said, NO country can claim a moral high ground, and India least of all.

If you do not have democracy in your country, that is your fault and no one else's..you can not claim, since you do not elect, you are not to blame.

You very well bear responsibility of actions of your leaders, for you chose to remain silent and let them rule over you.

And Forced famine was just one of the aspects of your great leap forward, there were also mass suicides and forced labour and not to forget some 2.5 million people were tortured/beaten to death.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I see somany chinese members talking nonsense about Indian leaders too.... But i ignore them and pity them.....But then thats me.......

See what I was replying to:

But then lets face it - NSG is not a very respectable group. Neither is it the UN. It is more a gang of bullies and their lackeys. So India will be at a disadvantage.

I still don't understand how India will bring "respectability" to the NSG and the UNSC?

Why are you so much more "respectable" than the rest of us?

The answer is you are not, bringing Modi to the high table is the last thing that would bring respectability.

Come down to our level, you guys aren't better than anyone in the NSG or UNSC.

 

[nair]

See what I was replying to:

My point was not specific to this thread but in general, and i have seen you doing that often.......

 

[arbit]

Like I said, go ahead and keep attacking Chinese leaders.

I won't even give a negative rating, let alone anything else.

Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I'm an Atheist, I don't consider any human being to be holy. Especially those whom I did not even elect, or those who died before I was born.

My loyalty is to China the country. If you want to rile me up, you already know which one to attack.

You have had a steady stream of competent leadership at the helm cos of the nature of the politics in your country. So if you are loyal to China, rest assured CCP will elect a leader to take it forward, however ruthlessly. If it requires a one child policy. BAM done. Build Dams after displacing people? Done. Land required for mining? Done!

Contrast it with the kind of government we have had to endure. Jawaharlal Nehru, Chandrashekhar, Gujral, Manmohan singh and recently were faced with a real danger of an imbecile rahul gandhi running this country. Its horrifying beyond imagination

We don't consider Modi to be holy! Far from it; but he is the most competent leader at present who is not corrupt, has the cred of a street fighter, plus he puts his country first and can get things done.
Lastly that allegation of mass murderer is patently untrue. You just repeat it cos of your pakistani patrons. So its natural some of us will be riled up. (i ain't one of them though )

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

My point was not specific to this thread but in general, and i have seen you doing that often.......

Anytime these guys try to get on a moral high horse over us, like in the post I quoted above, what am I supposed to do?

What I do... is explain calmly, using examples, why they don't deserve to be on a moral high horse, like all the rest of us.

Is it really so bad to be down here with the rest of us?

And Modi is a valid example as per the site Administrators. Bringing Modi to the high table (NSG and UNSC) will not bring respectability of any sort.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Even with the proliferation track record?

yes dear
that will actually help with preventing such incidents. secondly when Pakistan is not even the signatory of NPT then why scold over it? hmmm?

 

[nair]

Anytime these guys try to get on a moral high horse over us, like in the post I quoted above, what am I supposed to do?

What I do... is explain calmly, using examples, why they don't deserve to be on a moral high horse, like all the rest of us.

Is it really so bad to be down here with the rest of us?

And Modi is a valid example as per the site Administrators. Bringing Modi to the high table (NSG and UNSC) will not bring respectability of any sort.

None of us are saints..... Every country has its own sins and its own problems.......... We have leaders, some of them are good some of them are bad......... What site administrators think does not become truth......They would not know it better than we indians (especially when it comes to an indian leader), yes they can make policy where in an indian leader can be called mass murderer, but that doesn't make him one right?

There is a legal system in india (may not be the best in the world, but certainly better than those who accuse modi) and He has not been found guilty by any of these courts....... But then i leave it to your judgement

Disclaimer: I am not a modi Bakt......

 

[American Pakistani]

This is pure discrimination. Pakistan and China should try to block India's entry in NSG. Pakistan should use GCC pressure and also request Russia for backing and China as an influential power of the world and economic powerhouse should use it's influence.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You keep running to the Admins, asking the same question.

And I've told you before, even the Admins refer to Modi as a mass murderer. Which is his reputation around the world, a reputation created by Indians themselves.

Indians are always attacking our leaders, I've never run to the Admins complaining, I don't even give negative ratings to those posts. See the above posts for example. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Negative ratings mean more than my life to me. One can hurt, two seriously and three can kill me.

Secondly, no Indian makes demeaning claims against Chinese rulers, but arrogant Chinese posters.

Thirdly, it is obvious you have no understanding of democracy, hence allegations of xyz somehow equals proof. This is true for all Communist states(or rather states with the Communist Party). Purges and one sided judicial systems with kangaroo courts are the order of the day. That is not surprising. Also NOT offensive is the point that India is not the one to have a higher ground. No, that is your opinion. But Modi being a 'mass murderer' is a lie, a deliberate and malicious one at that. Also to be honest, I don't wish to redress this unfair stand this forum has towards some, but by such regular reminders at least reminds us (especially those with the illusion of equality) that we belong, at best, to the second class. I personally am totally aloof this because this is an internet forum.

On the other hand, when it comes to high moral grounds - one thing is clear. Compared to China, USA and Russia, almost any country can claim a high moral ground. Yes, Pakistan joining the the UNSC is also much better than China staying. All things taken into consideration, their leaders are human, albeit emotional, and often blind. But still far better than the 'superpowers' that pull the strings today. In short, even Pakistan deserves to have a higher moral ground than China where the most basic freedom to think and express stuff(like this critical post for example) is missing.

From my personal interactions, on forums and elsewhere, it is obvious that Pakistanis come in different colors - many hate Hindus, some drink, some hate themselves, some are confused, some are dreamers, etc etc. There is a massive diversity, which among Chinese members (here) is totally missing. It's almost like you are all clones - saying, thinking, speaking, doing the same. There is almost no individuality. But I guess that is the price to pay in a dictatorship. I will chose the India/Pakistan inefficient but human model over the China Model anyday.
@Joe Shearer

You keep running to the Admins, asking the same question.

And I've told you before, even the Admins refer to Modi as a mass murderer. Which is his reputation around the world, a reputation created by Indians themselves.

Only one of them call him a mass murderer. You are again into generalizing. This is not the politburo. You can't take a brush and paint them all red.

 

[VelocuR]

Appreciate China's efforts, thank you!

No reasons why Indians here become very stupid in double face.

 

[JohnyD]

This is pure discrimination. Pakistan and China should try to block India's entry in NSG. Pakistan should use GCC pressure and also request Russia for backing and China as an influential power of the world and economic powerhouse should use it's influence.

boy, your wishlist is too big to get fulfilled even in your dreams.. you might get wet and wake up crying before your first wishlist even gets heard!!

 

[Yogijaat]

lol if China is so super duper powerful than why North korea isn't a member of NSG

 

[Ind4Ever]

BEIJING: China on Monday reacted coldly to strong indications that the United States would back India for a membership of the Nuclear Suppliers Group, with the Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying cautioning that any such move "requires very careful consideration from all member countries".

"We support the group carrying out discussions on admitting new members, and at the same time we encourage India to take next steps to satisfy the relevant standards of the group," Hua said, indicating India should first accept the Non-Proliferation Treaty before aspiring for a place in the NSG.

NSG controls almost all international nuclear trade; its membership enables countries to freely use technology and nuclear material from other nations.

READ ALSO: Joint declaration on South China Sea may irk Bejing

The spokeswoman's statement revealed serious differences between the perceptions of the Chinese government and US President Barack Obama, who has backed India's case during his ongoing visit to New Delhi.

Hua also said the issue is of the 48-member NSG "admitting new members" instead of confining the debate to India. Observers here believe China, which has helped Pakistan build two nuclear power plants, would lobby for a seat for Islamabad in the NSG if the US pushes for India.

China's opposition could hurt India's chances of joining the NSG because many of its members believe that acceptance of NPT — an international treaty that prevents signatories from acquiring nuclear weapons — is an essential prerequisite. The United States and Britain have backed India regardless.

READ ALSO: Can't iron out differences in just 3 days, China says

"We believe that such (an) inclusion should be conducive to the integrity and effectiveness of the regime and decision should be made on consensus. We notice India's commitment to relevant issues," Hua said, suggesting China seems to think India does not meet all the conditions for a seat in the NSG.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi had on Sunday said President Obama has assured him of strong US efforts in support of India's full membership of the four international export control regimes at the earliest, and indication of US backing for NSG membership.

China is emerging as a major exporter of nuclear technology and would want to control NSG's membership. By saying that the "decision should be made on consensus", it has indicated it will play an active role in NSG's decision making on India's case.


China red-flags India’s entry into NSG, may push for Pakistan - The Times of India

And China was Non NSG till 2004 ... Are they insecure ? And helpless ?

 

[MilSpec]

yes dear
that will actually help with preventing such incidents. secondly when Pakistan is not even the signatory of NPT then why scold over it? hmmm?

True, but still proliferating nuclear technology and then demanding incentives from a nuclear fuel regulating agency results into a moral dilemma.

Now the most common narrative presented is it was the good doctor's nexus who proliferated, not the state (a sort of non-state actor argument). How will NSG incentives or even membership envelope such misappropriations?

 

[Hashshāshīn]

Hilarious considering US stole technology from the Germans in the first place.