China order 123 AL-31

[Birruna]

And this batch of AL-31 engines was perhaps ordered years before.

lol, it is really tiresome to explain this over again and again to people who want to use these excuses to bash China's engine.

If I were you I will simply accept that China still sucks at making engines and move on. China will eventually build fully reliable engines and more.

 

[manojb]

engine makes 1/3 of a/c .. so all fighter india/china/pak are making are 1/3 russian/american..

 

[Outman]

china's various types of 4th gen fighters that are still under development will all emerge in the coming years, it will be easy to judge whether they are istalled with the AL-31s or not from the looks by then.

i for one find it hard to believe that AL-31 will be the choice, it's not even the prototype of our previous WS series copycats.

 

[Akasa]

engine makes 1/3 of a/c .. so all fighter india/china/pak are making are 1/3 russian/american..

Then according to your theory Rolls Royce owns 1/3 of Boeing.

Engines, albeit an important component, are diminished by the role of the avionics, airframe, and weapons systems.

 

[gambit]

Engines, albeit an important component, are diminished by the role of the avionics, airframe, and weapons systems.

Bunk...Even as an avionics guy, I appreciate the significance of a good jet engine. Everything in my avionics bay is for naught if there is not a good engine to allow the pilot to use them. As usual...You do not know what you are talking about.

 

[GSK]

Anything wrong with our use of Russian engine? As long as it satisfy our requirements and more cost effective and reliable than our own model, I suggest we buy them as many as possible until we get our own engine ready. I don't understand why so many people here don't understand these basics.

For J-20, if Russian engine is better than ours, same thing, we should use it. The most important thing for J20 is: it is a effective weapon that can kill. Victory is much more important than glory, which will just come after victory. To discuss glory of using what engine is nonsense, it is against Suntzu's rules of Art of War. Guys, be practical. War is all about to kill, not win glory. And there is no shame for me to use your weapon to kill you on battlefield. Do you feel glory because I used your weapon? Of course not, because you are alreay dead.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Then according to your theory Rolls Royce owns 1/3 of Boeing.

Engines, albeit an important component, are diminished by the role of the avionics, airframe, and weapons systems.

Dude talk realistic.. with out engine.. you cant fly and you cant get electrical energy ... Engine is the biggest component of an aircraft...

 

[JingDong]

In terms of value, the engine is probably working out to about 1/10th that of the total aircraft.

123 AL-31s are costing about $ 500 million ..... so about 4 million USD per engine.

J-10, for example, is about 40 million USD .... so that's where I compute the 1/10th value.




In terms of criticality, the engine is naturally much more important than a 1/10th figure would suggest.

The key question is what's the cost of WS-10A .... under current production volumes. (assuming it's fully functional).

AL-31 has much more volumes ..... so it will have a better cost competitiveness (as of now).

But, somehow, the Russians do think that the AL-31 may not be able sell for a higher price e.g. 6 million or 8 million a piece .... even though European or US engines can't compete with them in the Chinese market.

Just to compare GE-414 is selling at around 7-8 million USD to India ..... almost double the price of AL-31
(for a deal of a similar size ..... 99 GE-414 engine for about USD 800 million).

At 4 million a piece, the deal looks quite good for China. The only thing is that nobody knows, what are Russia's motives behind this throw away.

 

[Way to go]

I know what happened now. 123 AL-31s are for J-10A. Other fighters use Chinese engines.

 

[Dragon Emperor]

Who cares if J-10 uses Russian engines. What's important is that future Chinese 5th gen fighters starting from 2016 onwards will all use Chinese-made engines(WS-15 and future variants of it).

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Who cares if J-10 uses Russian engines. What's important is that future Chinese 5th gen fighters starting from 2016 onwards will all use Chinese-made engines(WS-15 and future variants of it).

In fact, even J-10B is designed for the WS-10X engine.

Some humor stated that J-10B are going to equip with the AL-31 engine is in fact totally BS.

 

[HongWu]

In fact, even J-10B is designed for the WS-10X engine.

Some humor stated that J-10B are going to equip with the AL-31 engine is in fact totally BS.

The problem is all photos of J-10B so far are equipped with AL-31FN, even though we have already seen J-20 fly with domestic engines!

I think China ordered the 123 engines for the J-10B because the B-version is supposed to be mass produced this year. At the same time as mass production, Chengdu will soon be testing the J-10B with FWS10A. Also, it looks like the same situation in radars -- the J-10B looks like it will enter into service this year with PESA radar, and upgrade to AESA later.

Very likely, J-10B will be flying with domestic engines by 2013-2014 and J-20 will be flying with domestic engines by 2016-2018.

All we need right now is proof (photo of J-10B testing with domestic engines)!

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The problem is all photos of J-10B so far are equipped with AL-31FN, even though we have already seen J-20 fly with domestic engines!

I think China ordered the 123 engines for the J-10B because the B-version is supposed to be mass produced this year. At the same time as mass production, Chengdu will soon be testing the J-10B with FWS10A. Also, it looks like the same situation in radars -- the J-10B looks like it will enter into service this year with PESA radar, and upgrade to AESA later.

Very likely, J-10B will be flying with domestic engines by 2013-2014 and J-20 will be flying with domestic engines by 2016-2018.

All we need right now is proof (photo of J-10B testing with domestic engines)!

The prototype aircraft isn't the same as the production aircraft. Yes, we will see the production aircraft later.

 

[Akasa]

Bunk...Even as an avionics guy, I appreciate the significance of a good jet engine. Everything in my avionics bay is for naught if there is not a good engine to allow the pilot to use them. As usual...You do not know what you are talking about.

I'm pretty sure you know that modern day air to air combat rely on electronic warfare, observability, and the capabilities of the weapons carried. We are past the good old days of turning dogfights and chases.

Avionics are relied on more than raw power.

---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 PM ----------

Dude talk realistic.. with out engine.. you cant fly and you cant get electrical energy ... Engine is the biggest component of an aircraft...

Read my post. I did not say that aircraft can fight without engines. I am simply stating that modern day combat put more emphasis on the electronic aspect.

 

[gambit]

I'm pretty sure you know that modern day air to air combat rely on electronic warfare, observability, and the capabilities of the weapons carried. We are past the good old days of turning dogfights and chases.

Avionics are relied on more than raw power.

More than you will ever learn. Your assertion that a jet engine's importance can diminished by avionics are not accepted by any professional.