China may export J-10B fighters with Russian AL31FN-S3 engines to Pakistan

[New World]

MKI is not as big of a treat as Rafale. It is a huge fighter with very large RCS, with a sightly improved radar thunder and F-16 wil easily pick it up before it picks them. Another factor that is in PAF's favor is MKI has very low serviceability this means IAF will only be able to deploy only a fraction of MKIs against Pakistan. However if they are able to get Rafale then the game would change as Rafale is something next level as compared to MKI.

LOL! what a logic 230 su-30mki which each carry max 6 bvr missiles are no problem because mki has high RCS as compared to falcon...

 

[A2Z]

LOL! what a logic 230 su-30mki which each carry max 6 bvr missiles are no problem because mki has high RCS as compared to falcon...

You would not have LOLed if you had read the post correctly and tried to understand what I was trying to convey. I never said MKI is not a problem for PAF my point was MKI's treat is nothing compared to the treat posed by Rafale. Secondly RCS is just a factor that I think goes in PAF favor.

 

[Zarvan]

You would not have LOLed if you had read the post correctly and tried to understand what I was trying to convey. I never said MKI is not a problem for PAF my point was MKI's treat is nothing compared to the treat posed by Rafale. Secondly RCS is just a factor that I think goes in PAF favor.

Pakistan should counter threat posed by Rafale also our best options are either J-10 B or J-11 D we need to go for one of these at least and in large numbers

 

[New World]

You would not have LOLed if you had read the post correctly and tried to understand what I was trying to convey. I never said MKI is not a problem for PAF my point was MKI's treat is nothing compared to the treat posed by Rafale. Secondly RCS is just a factor that I think goes in PAF favor.

who the cares about RCS when those fcking mki are armed with bvr missiles and awacs killer missiles..

 

[Erroroverload]

f16s can counter MKI ,

 

[abdulbarijan]

who the cares about RCS when those fcking mki are armed with bvr missiles and awacs killer missiles..

You know I like the posts of criticism on these defense matters and have criticized myself on some of the things that I found illogical and such but after Mastan Sahib has done 2-3 odd threads pointing out some factors ... seems as if being a "harsh critic" is now in fashion on PDF ... Now don't get me wrong ... I respect Mastan sahib's opinions, because of the simple fact that he actually expands upon what he believes and all that ...

and then there are critics like yourself --- whose entire post is like "ohh MKI has BVR -- what will we do" --- Do read up a little on here -- because the arguments you present are frankly laughable ...

First off your going about 230 MKI's as if IAF is going to launch 230 MKI's in one strike -- completely disregarding the fact that they have a future super power to worry about at one front .. and then they have to worry about the nuclear threshold, the times have changed to a point where India has lost its biggest weapon i.e numerical superiority as it becomes a non factor because crossing a certain threshold means jumping in to hell -- literally ...

Secondly -- the defensive doctrine of PAF is such that it has to maintain a 3:1 ratio with the IAF to meet the challenges ... and that we are ... as for your SU-30 MKI being almighty and powerful -- seems like you have been too much on IDF or BR .. look what happened to the almighty MKI at red flag 08 where it became the breakfast, lunch and dinner of the 15's and 16's ...

 

[Ultima Thule]

Pakistan should counter threat posed by Rafale also our best options are either J-10 B or J-11 D we need to go for one of these at least and in large numbers

Man you live in your wet dream and wishful thinking J+10 is just started to inducted by PLAAF in small number First they will induct PLAAF in large numbers then we thought about it and as for J-11 d forget about it, it is not even in production line and first priority is to induct it in PLAAF in large numbers, I think that J-11d will available for PAF after 2018 , 2020, so wakeup Mr ZARVAN from your wet dreams

 

[aliyusuf]

Why is it necessary to be rude and aggressive to present a difference of opinion?

 

[Zarvan]

Man you live in your wet dream and wishful thinking J+10 is just started to inducted by PLAAF in small number First they will induct PLAAF in large numbers then we thought about it and as for J-11 d forget about it, it is not even in production line and first priority is to induct it in PLAAF in large numbers, I think that J-11d will available for PAF after 2018 , 2020, so wakeup Mr ZARVAN from your wet dreams

I am not in any dream may be you are. You have any idea about Chinese production rate if not than don't talk and J-11 D in few months will enter mass production. Pakistan needs third 4.5th Generation platform and best and most easy option for us is J-10 B or J-11 D

 

[abdulbarijan]

I am not in any dream may be you are. You have any idea about Chinese production rate if not than don't talk and J-11 D in few months will enter mass production. Pakistan needs third 4.5th Generation platform and best and most easy option for us is J-10 B or J-11 D

Zarvan bhai, the problem is not the production rate -- it is whether we NEED it or not -- and by NEED the meaning is..

"If we don't acquire it, the balance of power shifts once again in India's favor"

If we talk today, we have to face MKI's, Mig-29's and M2K's along with older Migs of the IAF .. such a fleet can be negotiated (under a defensive doctrine) by increasing the numbers of F-16's ... and adding more teeth to the JF-17's by the integration of new weapons .. and the whole up gradation process the PAF is eyeing for post 2018 ... while replacing obsolete aircrafts .. and maybe even increasing the number of JF-17's to negotiate with the new additions of SU-30's to the IAF ...

I don't know .. but it is not really possible to have an aircraft identified in the time that you have and then going to have to put a "counter" for that aircraft hence the focus is not to have A vs B's sorta thing but to have an all around air force that is technologically generally on the same level as the opponent ...

The situation changes if the rafale deal is confirmed ... then we would have to go for a heavier platform in the J-10B or J-11B/D, modifying it to our needs as we have previously done to many platforms like F-7 PG etc.... In such a case I believe that the focus should be on killing two birds with one stone, acquiring J-11 D's in a number that can not only serve as a stop gap solution for PAF until we can go 5th generation but also have it serve as a naval platform (just 1 odd squadron along with a squadron of JFT's) ..


However this all depends on whether the PAF thinks that there is a NEED for such an action and ofcourse if we have enough budget or other measures to secure these jets...

chinese selling their crap to pakistan having no role of utilization during war with india.

chinese selling their crap to pakistan having no role of utilization during war with india.

china selling its crap to pakistan having no advancing role against india in situation of war

Don't worry -- we have enough of these guys to take care of the likes of you ...

 

[New World]

You know I like the posts of criticism on these defense matters and have criticized myself on some of the things that I found illogical and such but after Mastan Sahib has done 2-3 odd threads pointing out some factors ... seems as if being a "harsh critic" is now in fashion on PDF ... Now don't get me wrong ... I respect Mastan sahib's opinions, because of the simple fact that he actually expands upon what he believes and all that ...

and then there are critics like yourself --- whose entire post is like "ohh MKI has BVR -- what will we do" --- Do read up a little on here -- because the arguments you present are frankly laughable ...

First off your going about 230 MKI's as if IAF is going to launch 230 MKI's in one strike -- completely disregarding the fact that they have a future super power to worry about at one front .. and then they have to worry about the nuclear threshold, the times have changed to a point where India has lost its biggest weapon i.e numerical superiority as it becomes a non factor because crossing a certain threshold means jumping in to hell -- literally ...

Secondly -- the defensive doctrine of PAF is such that it has to maintain a 3:1 ratio with the IAF to meet the challenges ... and that we are ... as for your SU-30 MKI being almighty and powerful -- seems like you have been too much on IDF or BR .. look what happened to the almighty MKI at red flag 08 where it became the breakfast, lunch and dinner of the 15's and 16's ...

first, what if india unleash all available Su-30 mki on pakistan.. will PAF be able to defend with 76 f-16 and 60 f-17..
secondly as you said PAF has defensive doctrine than where are high altitude SAMs to defend us in case if jets fail to protect...

Thirdly... will fat-man fight with knife against slim man when he has assault rifle.... no one can beat f-16 in dog-fight but this era is of bvr..

 

[abdulbarijan]

first, what if india unleash all available Su-30 mki on pakistan.. will PAF be able to defend with 76 f-16 and 60 f-17..
secondly as you said PAF has defensive doctrine than where are high altitude SAMs to defend us in case if jets fail to protect...

Thirdly... will fat-man fight with knife against slim man when he has assault rifle.... no one can beat f-16 in dog-fight but this era is of bvr..

Like I said, read a little before you write a paragraph repeating the same stuff over again ...

-The Indian military crossing a 'red line' means the possibility of nuclear strikes ... so that is a no-no thing for India. Then it has to have enough assets to secure itself in case of a two front war ... hence using all possible assets in one go is not really a possibility ... add in the serviceability issues that the SU-30 MKI faces, so yeah Ill stick with my point unless you can discredit it by posting something rational and not some "what if" situations ... the same goes for the defensive doctrine ... JF-17's along with F-16's in of themselves are a VERY REAL threat for the IAF ... add in C4I, AWACS, SAMS and MANPADS --- you have an airforce that has the ability to defend its airspace ... refer to what happened to the IAF's surgical strikes post 26/11 and operation parakram before you go any further with your comments....

- Lastly, "the era is of bvr" -- How is this an argument at all ???
So you mean F-16's and JF-17's dont have BVR's ?? -- Infact the Aim-120 C5's we have are among the best in the world ... the SD-10 is not to be taken lightly either ... and as the up gradation process continues there are programs for other weapons to be inducted with the JFT that will increase its capabilities ...

So like I said ... please read up on the MLU upgrades, the weapons in service and the info pool thread we have in the forum before you make whopping statements like the ones Ive quoted ... and please dont quote me any further if the only points you have are one liners without any context whatsoever ...

as Nuclear is all over in your head so i can't further talk with you on conventional toys..

Well you never responded to any points about the conventional stuff either .... but then again ... , just putting things in to perspective --- Pakistan is a nuclear power ---- THAT IS A REALITY-- and that has quite a significant effects on the approach the enemy will take if it wishes war ...

 

[New World]

Like I said, read a little before you write a paragraph repeating the same stuff over again ...

-The Indian military crossing a 'red line' means the possibility of nuclear strikes ... so that is a no-no thing for India. Then it has to have enough assets to secure itself in case of a two front war ... hence using all possible assets in one go is not really a possibility ... add in the serviceability issues that the SU-30 MKI faces, so yeah Ill stick with my point unless you can discredit it by posting something rational and not some "what if" situations ... the same goes for the defensive doctrine ... JF-17's along with F-16's in of themselves are a VERY REAL threat for the IAF ... add in C4I, AWACS, SAMS and MANPADS --- you have an airforce that has the ability to defend its airspace ... refer to what happened to the IAF's surgical strikes post 26/11 and operation parakram before you go any further with your comments....

- Lastly, "the era is of bvr" -- How is this an argument at all ???
So you mean F-16's and JF-17's dont have BVR's ?? -- Infact the Aim-120 C5's we have are among the best in the world ... the SD-10 is not to be taken lightly either ... and as the up gradation process continues there are programs for other weapons to be inducted with the JFT that will increase its capabilities ...

So like I said ... please read up on the MLU upgrades, the weapons in service and the info pool thread we have in the forum before you make whopping statements like the ones Ive quoted ... and please dont quote me any further if the only points you have are one liners without any context whatsoever ...

as Nuclear is all over in your head so i can't further talk with you on conventional toys..

 

[arif hamza]

please someone help me I'm new and I don't know how to start a new conversation


thanks for your answers.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I am not in any dream may be you are. You have any idea about Chinese production rate if not than don't talk and J-11 D in few months will enter mass production. Pakistan needs third 4.5th Generation platform and best and most easy option for us is J-10 B or J-11 D

OK Mr ZARVAN Pakistan do need a 4.5th generation platform, but first customer of J-10B and J-11D is PLAAF to induct those fighter for enough numbers, than we talk about PAF so if the deal is singed in 2015 for J-10B, J-11D or both than those goodies will arrived atleast in 2018 to 2020 timeframe, and in 2018 JF-17 blk-3 will come to PAF and its has almost same capable as J-10B , now focus on JF-17 to made it more indenginous for promote defence industry instead relaying on import fighters