China may export J-10B fighters with Russian AL31FN-S3 engines to Pakistan

[A2Z]

First of all F-16 getting jammed can't happen secondly if we suppose it can happen than USA would be biggest fool to try it because than we would only use nuclear weapons to response so grow up Guys. Now on the topic well now I have changed my mind a little if India goes to buy Rafale than J-10 B is the best answer but if they go for something like Euro Fighter than SU-35 is the best answer or J-11 D. As for those promoting JH-7 B it would be great plane but as 4th Jet in our Air Force for third it should be either SU-35 or J-10 B. JH-7 can come for deep strikes inside India and unleashing hell on their Armored Brigades. @MastanKhan @Super Falcon @A2Z

Totally agree with you that if India goes for Rafale then F-16 only are not an appropriate answer, we would need something that can match Rafale's capability but keeping in mind the recent news about Rafale deal either India would pull off the biggest surprise or the deal is about to die. However regarding Su-35 I don't doubt the capabilities but would Russia offer us something of that caliber?

 

[Zarvan]

Totally agree with you that if India goes for Rafale then F-16 only are not an appropriate answer, we would need something that can match Rafale's capability but keeping in mind the recent news about Rafale deal either India would pull off the biggest surprise or the deal is about to die. However regarding Su-35 I don't doubt the capabilities but would Russia offer us something of that caliber?

SU-35 is one of the best superiority Fighter as for Rafale it's great jet but F-16 can easily counter it no problem with that but we still need a third 4.5th Generation platform. So for me if India goes ahead with Rafale we would go for J-10 B but if they go for Euro Fighter than SU-35 is the best option.

 

[Arsalan]

OR like these,,,
you know what i am saying right?

WHAT IS YOUR CONTRIBUTION TO THIS THREAD IN THIS POST?

 

[Rocketman]

Highly doubt it, even as a stop gap. With the near death of the Indian Rafale deal, there is no longer an urgent need.

It's already been said before, PAF will most likely go straight for a 5th Gen. If a stop gap is needed, PAF will opt for more second hand f-16s.

I don't mean any disrespect, but how is Pakistan going to bear the cost of a 5th generation platform, the entire life-cycle cost and spare parts as it is a well known fact that a 5th generation platform is highly cost prohibitive. Even the USA had to cut down the orders for F-22 to just 187+8 from originally planned around 750.

A rough estimate is that if a procurement of a plane costs $100 millions, by the end of its life cycle, it consumes a total of $300-400 millions(including procurement cost, with final amount adjusted to the rate of exchange of procurement date.).

And in the end Pakistan's predicted economic conditions both in short term and mid term won't easily allow it to procure 5th Generation platform in significant numbers. Mere 3 squadrons won't make much difference against India.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I also doubt that taken into account of need/threat assessment (threat isn't high), budget allocation and limited supply (of J10 production). PAF/PAC should not complicate existing logistics management by introducing additional platform, rather should focus on JF17 Block 2/3, electronic warfare, net-centric capability, and make long term preparation for next gen (say jointly develop 5G).

BINGO

 

[That Guy]

I don't mean any disrespect, but how is Pakistan going to bear the cost of a 5th generation platform, the entire life-cycle cost and spare parts as it is a well known fact that a 5th generation platform is highly cost prohibitive. Even the USA had to cut down the orders for F-22 to just 187+8 from originally planned around 750.

A rough estimate is that if a procurement of a plane costs $100 millions, by the end of its life cycle, it consumes a total of $300-400 millions(including procurement cost, with final amount adjusted to the rate of exchange of procurement date.).

And in the end Pakistan's predicted economic conditions both in short term and mid term won't easily allow it to procure 5th Generation platform in significant numbers. Mere 3 squadrons won't make much difference against India.

It's a fair question to ask, so no offense taken.

Pakistan doesn't need 100+ 5th Gen, nor would it look for such a thing. It's looking for between 35-40, enough for a deterrent capability to effectively challenge India's future 5th gen. The Chinese FC-31 promises 5th gen technology and capability, but on a slightly smaller budget, perfect for a defensive force such as the PAF. These planes would be used to contest against Indian 5th gens (which India would only be able to field in limited numbers, due to cost -the same as PAF-), thus preventing Indian domination of the sky, in the event of war.

Quite frankly, even 2-3 squadrons of 5th gens are enough.

That's the way PAF has always operated against the numerically superior Indian air force, and its worked well so far, there is no reason to change this tactic.

 

[A2Z]

SU-35 is one of the best superiority Fighter as for Rafale it's great jet but F-16 can easily counter it no problem with that but we still need a third 4.5th Generation platform. So for me if India goes ahead with Rafale we would go for J-10 B but if they go for Euro Fighter than SU-35 is the best option.

Well there is no doubt that Su-35 is the answer to any 4.5 generation fighter but my question remains the same. Will we be able to get them? Are we so close to russia that they'll give us the best of flanker series?

 

[Zarvan]

Well there is no doubt that Su-35 is the answer to any 4.5 generation fighter but my question remains the same. Will we be able to get them? Are we so close to russia that they'll give us the best of flanker series?

Well Russia wants to join CPEC route we can use that as leverage to get SU-35 if we want. But we should also have a look at J-11 D Chinese are claiming it to be equal to SU-35 if not better.

 

[Peace seeker]

i don't understand why???

 

[Super Falcon]

D

SU-35 is one of the best superiority Fighter as for Rafale it's great jet but F-16 can easily counter it no problem with that but we still need a third 4.5th Generation platform. So for me if India goes ahead with Rafale we would go for J-10 B but if they go for Euro Fighter than SU-35 is the best option.

Dear if F 16 could have counter rafale in capabilities france bought F 16 why waster billions on rafale of same capsbility

Rafale i superrior in all aspects

Class A+ FIGHTER JETS
F 22 RAPTOR
F 35 LIGHTINING
T 50 PAKFA
J 31
J 20
LMFS

CLASS A FIGHTER JETS
EURO FIGHTER
RAFALE
SU 35 SUPER FLANKER
MIg 35
F 18 SUPER HORNET
F 15 PEACE EAGLE

CLASS B FIGHTER JETS
F 16 FIGHTING FALCON
JAS 39 GRIPEN
J 10 VEGAROUS DRAGON
MIG 29
TORNADO
JF 17 THUNDER
Mirage 2000

so dear rafake is far far far superior to F 16 get oug of F 16 love affair

If india gets RAFALE
We must buy SU 35

WE Lack air superiority if india get air superiority of our air we loose battle in matter of days

Our PAF think tank nuts cant get F 16 to destroy india helo recently and cant gave air cover to our jawans in kargill war during tiger hill bombing

India has
SU 30
MIRAGE 2000
MIG 29K
LCA TEJAS
PAKFA
RAFALE

PAK HAS
F 16
JF 17

We did not have replaced the A 5 fantan and Mirage jets

Initialy we planed 250 Jf 17 now wd get 150 jf 17

We planned to buy J 10 and lower the order of 72 f 16 to just 18 F 16 in 2004

But we dont get J 10 yet neither 72 F 16

Our stupid paf think tank is doing to match naval stupidity they are letting us down
When war open you never know what you need

You are talking about helicopter incident do you know the exact details of the entire event that took place? On the other hand these were the pilots who locked on MKI using the same F-16 post Mumbai Drama tensions. When you talk about Kargil lets get your fact straight PAF was not allowed to respond to anything by our dear PM Nawaz Shareef because he feared further escalation would lead to a nuclear confrontation. I don't know why you have such an image of F-16 in your mind but there is a reason that F-16 is considered as a benchmark against which every fighter jet today is rated.

Yes if we ask russia in few years we can crack the deal

You are talking about helicopter incident do you know the exact details of the entire event that took place? On the other hand these were the pilots who locked on MKI using the same F-16 post Mumbai Drama tensions. When you talk about Kargil lets get your fact straight PAF was not allowed to respond to anything by our dear PM Nawaz Shareef because he feared further escalation would lead to a nuclear confrontation. I don't know why you have such an image of F-16 in your mind but there is a reason that F-16 is considered as a benchmark against which every fighter jet today is rated.

Im not against F 16 im against our thinking which says it can beat rafale which it cant

 

[CHI RULES]

???? Do you know the rules of engagements on the border???? Just so you know, there is an agreement that in peacetime (which unfortunately it is, even with shelling from both sides), aircraft, if by mistake get to the border, each side will give them the benefit of the doubt and will allow them to turn around.

So up to 5 KM's for jets are considered normal. For the heli's, there would be a limit much smaller than the jets obviously as the chopper can turn within a few hundred feet, but the jets require a few KM's at the least, due to their speed.

So this right here, is like 200-300 feet, which is a human walking for 2-3 minutes? Choppers are much bigger and obviously have speed. So if the pilot really tried to stop and messed up in getting directions from his GPS, its normal to skip the border by a couple of hundred feet. It shouldn't happen every day, but its not a sign of an attack or something.

At this level, the first responsibility lies on the SAM systems and shoulder mount AD units. The PAF has nothing to do with a helicopter coming in 100 feet and going back. Please don't bash the PAF!!

rangers on indo pak border definitely don't have SAMS or Manpads their limited air defense is based on HMGs and LMGs at best. If the dirty habbit of Indians goes on then we should arm our Rangers with Manpads with training as it not just simple to fire a Manpad and definitely hit the enemy helos or jets.

Further in peace time if helos are not gunships we can't scramble our F16s so much nearer to border. Pak is in defensive mode which is quite natural for a country with small stature. However perhaps now is the time to provide some sort of Man pads and even short range SAMS along with some AA modernized guns to Fc and Rangers on border.

There are reports that some future block of JF-17 is getting AESA radar. So then J-10 will become redundant. Read it somewhere too on this forum former ACM rejecting J-10 for further investment in JF-17 program and in buying Chinese stealth aircraft.

Future Jf17 Block-III may have AESA radarbut its range shall be lesser than J10 AESA. Further J10 latest versions have latest avionics and may engage more A to A targets than Jf17, have more hard points, even in J10C version elements of J20 are used. Due to light weight and limited options Pak can't bring JF17 block III equivalent to J10C.

Further I am not talking about future I am talking about PAK air defense now, PAF even now don;t have sufficient squadrons of JF17 and F16 to face Indian existing fleet. Further even existing Indian Jets are specifically upgraded specially by Israel. The Indian Jets have higher radar ranges than Pak fighters, with absence of BVR capabilities even in F7PGs and limited A to A capabilities of present Mirrages J10b or C is major contender to bring some sort of venom in current PAF fleet. (Pls don't go for rumors that PAF F7PGs have BVR capabilities, further most of old gen Jets of Pak don;t have Jammers and IRST not even available in latest F16s, meanwhile same capabilities even available in Indian Mig 21s.

 

[MastanKhan]

D

Dear if F 16 could have counter rafale in capabilities france bought F 16 why waster billions on rafale of same capsbility

Hi,

My good man----I think you misunderstood the arrogance of the French. French would not buy anything American just because it is better----.

 

[Zarvan]

D

Dear if F 16 could have counter rafale in capabilities france bought F 16 why waster billions on rafale of same capsbility

Rafale i superrior in all aspects

Class A+ FIGHTER JETS
F 22 RAPTOR
F 35 LIGHTINING
T 50 PAKFA
J 31
J 20
LMFS

CLASS A FIGHTER JETS
EURO FIGHTER
RAFALE
SU 35 SUPER FLANKER
MIg 35
F 18 SUPER HORNET
F 15 PEACE EAGLE

CLASS B FIGHTER JETS
F 16 FIGHTING FALCON
JAS 39 GRIPEN
J 10 VEGAROUS DRAGON
MIG 29
TORNADO
JF 17 THUNDER
Mirage 2000

so dear rafake is far far far superior to F 16 get oug of F 16 love affair

If india gets RAFALE
We must buy SU 35

WE Lack air superiority if india get air superiority of our air we loose battle in matter of days

Our PAF think tank nuts cant get F 16 to destroy india helo recently and cant gave air cover to our jawans in kargill war during tiger hill bombing

India has
SU 30
MIRAGE 2000
MIG 29K
LCA TEJAS
PAKFA
RAFALE

PAK HAS
F 16
JF 17

We did not have replaced the A 5 fantan and Mirage jets

Initialy we planed 250 Jf 17 now wd get 150 jf 17

We planned to buy J 10 and lower the order of 72 f 16 to just 18 F 16 in 2004

But we dont get J 10 yet neither 72 F 16

Our stupid paf think tank is doing to match naval stupidity they are letting us down
When war open you never know what you need


Yes if we ask russia in few years we can crack the deal


Im not against F 16 im against our thinking which says it can beat rafale which it cant

We would still get more than 250 JF-17 which fool have told you we would only have 150 JF-17 your source is wrong we are going for 250 JF-17 and we are also trying to get more F-16 now the only question is which should be third 4.5th Generation platform in our Air Force. For me if India goes ahead with Rafale than we should get J-10 B and if India goes ahead with just say Euro Fighter we should go for SU-35 or J-11D . As for A5 replacement if we really want 4th 4.5th Generation Fighter and replacement of A5 than best option is JH-7 B.

 

[A2Z]

Yes if we ask russia in few years we can crack the deal

I highly doubt that we can get J-11D because if we ask, there Indian lobby wont matter but going for Russian jets Indian lobby would never let that happen. It is a well known fact that indians are more close to russians than pakistanis. If it was not for china indians had made sure we didn't get engine for JF-17. Its not that I am against Su-35, J-11 or J-10 but the only concern I have in my mind is that going for a 4.5 gen platform would delay 5th gen platform by what? 10 years?

 

[Super Falcon]

I highly doubt that we can get J-11D because if we ask, there Indian lobby wont matter but going for Russian jets Indian lobby would never let that happen. It is a well known fact that indians are more close to russians than pakistanis. If it was not for china indians had made sure we didn't get engine for JF-17. Its not that I am against Su-35, J-11 or J-10 but the only concern I have in my mind is that going for a 4.5 gen platform would delay 5th gen platform by what? 10 years?

We already living in delaying our selfes first J 10 and induction of 250 J F 17 to 150

Currently war fought in air who have beter fire piwer in Air win war

Abd what gurantee you have with history of our stupid PAF mindset what they did with J 10 deal

Give you a small look in past

When mushy went to US to buy F 16 intial order was 72 F 16 fighter jets than they lowered it to 36 than again to 18 F 16 only out of 72 and ordered 36 J 10

Neither we got those 54 F 16 out of 72 Ordered nor 36 J 10

We are having big hole In Paf both in jets and sam systems

Paf currently digging grave for itself and entire nation with mindboggling induction

When entire world looking forward we keep looking backwards