China may be going down the old Soviet path to disintegration

[terranMarine]

I must protest for i am not inclined to acquiesce to your conjecture. If I may, The Mandate of Heaven was a political-social philosophy that served as the basic Chinese explanation for the success and failure of monarchs and states down to the end of the empire in 1912 CE. Whenever a dynasty fell, the reason invariably offered by China's sages was that it had lost the moral right to rule which is given by Heaven alone. In this context heaven did not mean a personal god but a cosmic all-pervading power.The Mandate of Heaven was integrated with and reinforced by the teachings of Confucianism. This social and political philosophy was derived from the writings of Chinese scholar Kong Fuzi. The cyclic disposition of dynastic rise and fall was referred to as the processes in which the Mandate of Heaven passed from one fallen dynasty to the other. Since the Qing Dynasty was the last true Imperial Chinese Dynasty, then its last ruler, Pu Yi was the last Emperor to hold the Mandate of Heaven.

After his abdication, were the governments of Sun Yat Sen, Jiang Jieshi (Chiang Kai Shek) and of course the Bolshevik-inspired communist, Mao Zhedong, who was antithetic towards conservative culture and the old religio-philosphico context-- took the reigns of power.

This is why I must stress and rightly so, that the Mandate of Heaven dissipated when China transformed from an Autocratic Monarchy into republican, to communist forms of government.



敬具,
ケンジ

The Mandate of Heaven is not about the cyclic process of passing down the Mandate to the next ruler of a new Dynasty.
Each Emperor would pass on the throne to one of his sons as the next ruler, so he would hold the Mandate of Heaven. If the new ruler would be overthrown by one of his relatives (for example uncle or brother), the Dynasty would remain the same but the Mandate of Heaven has switched to him. It's like the legitimacy has passed down to the new ruler.

 

[Aepsilons]

The Mandate of Heaven is not about the cyclic process of passing down the Mandate to the next ruler of a new Dynasty.
Each Emperor would pass on the throne to one of his sons as the next ruler, so he would hold the Mandate of Heaven. If the new ruler would be overthrown by one of his relatives (for example uncle or brother), the Dynasty would remain the same but the Mandate of Heaven has switched to him. It's like the legitimacy has passed down to the new ruler.

But it is. It is. There is no Mandate of Heaven anymore in present day China.

The only civilization in East Asia that has retained the Mandate of Heaven is Japan, through our 2,500 year old Imperial Dynasty, unbroken since time immemorial.

The mandate if Heaven is all about legitimacy. There is a practical side to it empowering the masses to rise up and depose inept and corrupt rulers whether its an emperor or Party.

Applying the Mandate of Heaven to just emperors is absurd. The Chinese civilisational state remains. Fallen emperors and dynasties does not negate the principal concept of the mandate of heaven which is all about legitimacy.

Titles of the rulers might change be it peasant emperor, president or King.
At the end their ultimate position is ruler.

You miss the point and are trying to find an excuse to your bolshevik-inspired government. The Mandate of Heaven was based on the Imperial Dynastic system. China no longer is an empire, but communist republic. There is no Emperor, or concept of Imperial House, no monarchy whose reign defined and named an age.

Pu Yi was the last Emperor of China. His deposition and death was the end of the Mandate of Heaven in China.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

But it is. It is. There is no Mandate of Heaven anymore in present day China.

The only civilization in East Asia that has retained the Mandate of Heaven is Japan, through our 2,500 year old Imperial Dynasty, unbroken since time immemorial.



You miss the point and are trying to find an excuse to your bolshevik-inspired government. The Mandate of Heaven was based on the Imperial Dynastic system. China no longer is an empire, but communist republic. There is no Emperor, or concept of Imperial House, no monarchy whose reign defined and named an age.

Pu Yi was the last Emperor of China. His deposition and death was the end of the Mandate of Heaven in China.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Totally delusional nonsense, almost as bad as your claim of 14,000 years of civilization. I suspected what you were hinting at in your last post and now you have come right out to say it. You are not posting about China, you are posting about Japan. You can be proud of your emperor but no need do discredit the Chinese about the mandate of heaven.

The mandate of heaven is a pragmatic and time proven concept, its meaning is not written in stone. A peasant can overthrow any emperor, King or Republic and become ruler. With the position of ultimate power, the mandate of heaven is bestowed and taken away if the ruler is inept. Like I mentioned before, its all about legitimacy, not imperial dynastic successions.

Japan has an Emperor but what power does he possess? A figurehead does not posses the mandate of Heaven.

In China, the old imperial blood lines can easily be traced and decedents found. Even the descendants of Confucius can be found. But what power do they hold?

'All under heaven' is a Chinese concept of the middle Kingdom with the ruler holding the mandate to rule all. It is too large to be applied to any ruler in Japan.

 

[Aepsilons]

Lol, what is this trite I'm reading ?

 

[Aepsilons]

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Totally delusional nonsense, almost as bad as your claim of 14,000 years of civilization. I suspected what you were hinting at in your last post and now you have come right out to say it. You are not posting about China, you are posting about Japan. You can be proud of your emperor but no need do discredit the Chinese about the mandate of heaven.

The mandate of heaven is a pragmatic and time proven concept, its meaning is not written in stone. A peasant can overthrow any emperor, King or Republic and become ruler. With the position of ultimate power, the mandate of heaven is bestowed and taken away if the ruler is inept. Like I mentioned before, its all about legitimacy, not imperial dynastic successions.

Japan has an Emperor but what power does he possess? A figurehead does not posses the mandate of Heaven.

In China, the old imperial blood lines can easily be traced and decedents found. Even the descendants of Confucius can be found. But what power do they hold?

'All under heaven' is a Chinese concept of the middle Kingdom with the ruler holding the mandate to rule all. It is too large to be applied to any ruler in Japan.

I am a lover of China's imperial history, it's almost romantic stories of the warring states period, it's philosopher rulers, it's rich Dynastic period. But we have to be realistic; China did not preserve the monarchy, nay, it, like the Bolsheviks, did away with the monarchy completely. If there is no Monarchy, no Mandate of Heaven . What exists now is the Politburo , the CCP and Party Elites, not an Emperor, who is Son of Heaven.

 

[Shitel Sheitty]

India will easily take over china in the next decade as Asian superpower.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

I am a lover of China's imperial history, it's almost romantic stories of the warring states period, it's philosopher rulers, it's rich Dynastic period. But we have to be realistic; China did not preserve the monarchy, nay, it, like the Bolsheviks, did away with the monarchy completely. If there is no Monarchy, no Mandate of Heaven . What exists now is the Politburo , the CCP and Party Elites, not an Emperor, who is Son of Heaven.

Pu Yi was not done away with, he became the chief gardener

There is no reasoning with you but I will say once again that the Mandate of heaven is not restricted to Emperors alone.

The concept remains as strong now as ever before.

India will easily take over china in the next decade as Asian superpower.

We Chinese are no match for Indian B.S. You will find your peer arguing with Koreans.

 

[Shitel Sheitty]

We Chinese are no match for Indian B.S. You will find your peer arguing with Koreans.

We maybe slow now but we will soon take over china.Because your foreign policy will isolate you from everyone else except Russia and your young population is constantly decreasing and the elderly population is increasing hence decreasing the labour we on the other hand have young population and largest labour base.

 

[Aepsilons]

The Mandate rested solely on the Emperor, of course it was restricted to him. In fact, if the Emperor's Rule was unrighteousness , Heaven will bestow natural imbalance to the nation , a sign of Heaven's wrath. This was an inauspicious sign that the Dynasty and the Emperor lost the Mandate of Heaven. Rebellions would manifest until a new Dynasty and Emperor sat upon the Golden throne of Zhong Guo.

 

[Shitel Sheitty]

China has a vast history and had been a major economy many times before , did american economy collapse due to their aging population ? although majority of their population is over 60 , They have obviously started to hire cheap baniyas like you who work for them at extremely cheap rates , and now you started to import their culture as well

lol.Look who's talking your country runs on American AID from half of the other world do you know that? Only thing you're good at is terrorism and its export.You are no comparison to Superpower like INDIA.

 

[Aepsilons]

Please, gentlemen, let's not resort to character / personal attacks.

 

[Shitel Sheitty]

Please, gentlemen, let's not resort to character / personal attacks.

look at his name and avatar he is clearly attacking my ancestors.

 

[Aepsilons]

Let's stick to the subject matter. Thanks.

 

[ephone]

A bunch of gordon chang again.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

This entire thread is ridiculous, just a bunch of wishful thinking clowns hoping that the collapse of China will bring their own countries out of the periphery that they exist in.

Insignificance requires louder voices I guess.

I have just learned that Japan rules all under Heaven and that the Turks took 3 million Chinese casualties in the Korean war.

Wow.

The Mandate rested solely on the Emperor, of course it was restricted to him. In fact, if the Emperor's Rule was unrighteousness , Heaven will bestow natural imbalance to the nation , a sign of Heaven's wrath. This was an inauspicious sign that the Dynasty and the Emperor lost the Mandate of Heaven. Rebellions would manifest until a new Dynasty and Emperor sat upon the Golden throne of Zhong Guo.

You see the words but cannot see the meaning.

Such a narrow and shallow interpretation. Its hilarious that you mentioned that Japan still posses the mandate of Heaven because you have an emperor. Sigh