China is building large landing helicopter assault ships

[Beast]

Not comparing but since u brought it up. Fact is even the old brahmaputra class frigate of IN has 2 helicopters,delhi class destroyers have 2.Shivalik class has 2 and kolkata class will have 2.IN seems to pay more attention to ASW.Admittedly this is because PN's main offensive punch comes from its underwater fleet and this emphasis on ASW is thus a natural development.

You forget PLAN has the largest submarine fleet after USN, Chinese surface fleet will have submarine acting as picket force position in far outer position ahead of main surface fleet preventing enemy from sneaking in.

Chinese fleet emphasize more on air defense becos aircraft is highly mobile and can switch position far more quickly while bringing in far larger amount of firepower if used in significant number compared to submarine threat.
A CV fleet without decent long range air defense is attempting suicide venture into ocean trying to assert control in modern naval warfare. You can see the trend of major navy developed their navy like french and RN emphasize on long range air defense like Type 45 Daring destroyer and OTH destroyer of french/ Italian navy.
Same as PLAN who modernise herself and pit against any other highly professional and major naval force.

 

[帅的一匹]

Not comparing but since u brought it up. Fact is even the old brahmaputra class frigate of IN has 2 helicopters,delhi class destroyers have 2.Shivalik class has 2 and kolkata class will have 2.IN seems to pay more attention to ASW.Admittedly this is because PN's main offensive punch comes from its underwater fleet and this emphasis on ASW is thus a natural development.

I heard that 40000 tons LHD project might be halted. Dick measering has no sense.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

You forget PLAN has the largest submarine fleet after USN, Chinese surface fleet will have submarine acting as picket force position in far outer position ahead of main surface fleet preventing enemy from sneaking in.

Chinese fleet emphasize more on air defense becos aircraft is highly mobile and can switch position far more quickly while bringing in far larger amount of firepower if used in significant number compared to submarine threat.
A CV fleet without decent long range air defense is attempting suicide venture into ocean trying to assert control in modern naval warfare. You can see the trend of major navy developed their navy like french and RN emphasize on long range air defense like Type 45 Daring destroyer and OTH destroyer of french/ Italian navy.
Same as PLAN who modernise herself and pit against any other highly professional and major naval force.

But air defense doesn't help u against sub attack.As for the largest submarine fleet,most of it is obsolete.Japan's submarine arm is the most powerful and modern in asia.

 

[qinglong-china]

Do not make a fuss. Maybe only test some shipbuilding technique

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I heard that 40000 tons LHD project might be halted. Dick measering has no sense.

Agreed.But I'm not saying LHD idea is bad,infact its a must if china wants to use military force in amphibious assault on islands or taiwan.What i am saying is PLAN needs to focus on ASW along with AD.Otherwise seawolf,virginia class,ohio cruise missile subs and los angles and those of Japanese navy will run rampant moving stealthily underwater hindering all operations.Subs can be extremely deadly.In 1982 falklands one british nuke sub bottled up whole argentine navy.Not the british carriers.

 

[cirr]

When will the construction of the LHD start?

2015 is the most likely date。

"Rumours" have it that the new Type 071A LPD, apart from much enhanced electronic systems，will become the 1st PLAN ship to have VLS for firing land attack cruise missiles。

 

[jhungary]

You forget PLAN has the largest submarine fleet after USN, Chinese surface fleet will have submarine acting as picket force position in far outer position ahead of main surface fleet preventing enemy from sneaking in.

Chinese fleet emphasize more on air defense becos aircraft is highly mobile and can switch position far more quickly while bringing in far larger amount of firepower if used in significant number compared to submarine threat.
A CV fleet without decent long range air defense is attempting suicide venture into ocean trying to assert control in modern naval warfare. You can see the trend of major navy developed their navy like french and RN emphasize on long range air defense like Type 45 Daring destroyer and OTH destroyer of french/ Italian navy.
Same as PLAN who modernise herself and pit against any other highly professional and major naval force.

Sub has not been used to hunt other sub ever since WW2. The last sub kills using another sub is during the pacific war and since then, submarine in the world only did score 2 more surface ships kill since ww2

You cannot rely on your sub fleet to engage other sub fleet, preferred method is still destroyer escort and convoy formation, even technology has changed immensely, submarine warfare hasn't change. A bit

 

[cirr]

Obviously aimed at senkaku islands and taiwan.Interesting.But really ASW is something PLAN needs to focus on.Their whole anti-access area denial is based on hindering surface ships and carriers.But USN and JMDF huge submarine arm is just as deadly a threat if not more.These large ships would be hugely vulnerable without very modern and powerful ASW ships for escorts.Right now PLAN seems to concentrating solely on AAW/surface attack destroyers.The type 56 corvette was a let down.

Don't worry。

The new Type 054B（or Type 057）FFG will address your concern。

In addition to new features such as electric propulsion etc，it has a number of innovative means for ASW，including UAVs。

 

[jhungary]

Agreed.But I'm not saying LHD idea is bad,infact its a must if china wants to use military force in amphibious assault on islands or taiwan.What i am saying is PLAN needs to focus on ASW along with AD.Otherwise seawolf,virginia class,ohio cruise missile subs and los angles and those of Japanese navy will run rampant moving stealthily underwater hindering all operations.Subs can be extremely deadly.In 1982 falklands one british nuke sub bottled up whole argentine navy.Not the british carriers.

As far as I can see, the most important problem PLAN facing is they lack a dedicated anti-sub platform.

SH or MH 60 is one of the dedicated platform US and west is using, Ka-27/8 is the one Ruskie and their bloc is using, on the other hand, Chinese is using z9 to double as ASW heli, they were built for recon/scout, lacking dedicated sonar/radar to pick up sub

Tho I am seeing a good sign that Chinese is getting Ka-28 but I would have expect the Chinese shoulda have make their own

 

[Beast]

Sub has not been used to hunt other sub ever since WW2. The last sub kills using another sub is during the pacific war and since then, submarine in the world only did score 2 more surface ships kill since ww2

You cannot rely on your sub fleet to engage other sub fleet, preferred method is still destroyer escort and convoy formation, even technology has changed immensely, submarine warfare hasn't change. A bit

With your submarine places in front and outer of your fleet. You have already reduced a certain big chunk of percent of your fleet exposed to enemy submarine threat. While at the same time, tied down the enemy fleet anti-submarine fleet trying to hunting you and protecting surface fleet.

As far as I can see, the most important problem PLAN facing is they lack a dedicated anti-sub platform.

SH or MH 60 is one of the dedicated platform US and west is using, Ka-27/8 is the one Ruskie and their bloc is using, on the other hand, Chinese is using z9 to double as ASW heli, they were built for recon/scout, lacking dedicated sonar/radar to pick up sub

Tho I am seeing a good sign that Chinese is getting Ka-28 but I would have expect the Chinese shoulda have make their own

Z-9 do have dedicated sonar dip to pick up sub.

The problem is the small payload meaning shortening its distance and additional anti-sub torpedo it can carry. It can only configure to carry one sonar dip and one anti-sub torpedo. That is where Z-20 are needed to carry more equipment , sonar and weapon plus with a longer legged for anti-sub warfare.

 

[jhungary]

With your submarine places in front and outer of your fleet. You have already reduced a certain big chunk of percent of your fleet exposed to enemy submarine threat. While at the same time, tied down the enemy fleet anti-submarine fleet trying to hunting you and protecting surface fleet.

That only work if the enemy is egressing (enemy is looking for you) what if the enemy is just sit in the middle of the ocean with engine off and lay ambush?

Most sonar in sub cannot pick up intense signal otherwise if the reception is too intense, your sonar will get interference from your own ship propulsion, unless you only use sonar when your sub is in dead stop, which does not make any sense

With your submarine places in front and outer of your fleet. You have already reduced a certain big chunk of percent of your fleet exposed to enemy submarine threat. While at the same time, tied down the enemy fleet anti-submarine fleet trying to hunting you and protecting surface fleet.



Z-9 do have dedicated sonar dip to pick up sub.

The problem is the small payload meaning shortening its distance and additional anti-sub torpedo it can carry. It can only configure to carry one sonar dip and one anti-sub torpedo. That is where Z-20 are needed to carry more equipment , sonar and weapon plus with a longer legged for anti-sub warfare.

The sonar dips is a modification and they are not dedicated to a helicopter (you need to take them off when you want your z9 to scout instead of Asw) and you need to change the shape of the z9 so they will not interfer with the sonar much, hence Ka28 is a lot more potent ASW chopper than z9, not because they have heavier payload, but the designed the Ka-27 for one reason only, that's sub hunting, so everything in that chopper would be designed for anti-sub.

Chinese need these kind of chopper

 

[帅的一匹]

Agreed.But I'm not saying LHD idea is bad,infact its a must if china wants to use military force in amphibious assault on islands or taiwan.What i am saying is PLAN needs to focus on ASW along with AD.Otherwise seawolf,virginia class,ohio cruise missile subs and los angles and those of Japanese navy will run rampant moving stealthily underwater hindering all operations.Subs can be extremely deadly.In 1982 falklands one british nuke sub bottled up whole argentine navy.Not the british carriers.

Good suggestion, but We have subs too........

 

[Oldman1]

Good suggestion, but We have subs too........

Wouldn't worry too much on what the U.S. Navy has been developing. Pretty impressive results so far.

 

[MohitV]

picture please

 

[Akasa]

These very short range rockets are of very limited value.Sub can take out ships with torpedoes from 50 km. or anti ship missile from much longer than that.Helicopters are way to go against modern subs.But i see ASW is neglected by PLAN.Hardly any ship has 2 helicopters.Even the large destroyers seem to have 1.
As for y-8Q its the one based on old an-12 platform,but still platform matters less in Maritime platform role.What is bad is that numbers are very small.I think total 7 odd dedicated fixed wing maritime patrol aircraft for naval air arm.
Type 56 ofcourse is fitted with torpedoes ,any corvette in the world is .However its size,sensors and tonnage indicate its a generic make up numbers ship.Not really good enough as specilized ASW weapon to hunt subs.It has a helipad but no hangar and is oriented towards surface attack rather than specializing in ASW.

Uh, the CY-2 and CJ-1 ASW missiles have ranges of 55 and 80 km, respectively. That is comparable to most American ADCAP torpedoes. The 054A can carry up to 32 of them.

The PLAN does not need to rely on helicopters. Any major warship will be escorted by the Type 054A and submarines, and if extra range is needed, they can simply call in a Y-8Q. And honestly, with multiple ships it would be perfectly sufficient for each one to carry one helicopter.

The Type 056 was never meant to take on high value enemy targets. Instead they are dedicated towards the support role and act as offshore patrol vessels against a much smaller enemy.