China in talks to export Pakistan bigger nuke plant

[justanobserver]

in regards to what actions they can take by doing a similar deal in 2006. Even they can't be such hypocrites.

Oh

I thought you were talking about the Nuclear Liability Bill that was passed in the Parliament recently.

 

[Safriz]

All the so called green tech is way expensive than the more conventional ways of power production..Wind turbines,solar panels,tidal dams..all cost an arm and a leg.
Nuclear power may well the greenest power production method at the moment..If the nuclear waste is disposed off carefully,such a burring it deep underground,there are no other harmful effects on environment.
Why the world powers are being two faced? On one hand they want everything environment friendly on the other hand they stop third world countries from a greener power production method such as Nuclear...
In a country like Pakistan where 5000 megawatts are needed to sustain the minimum requirements.
Alternatively if stopped from Nuclear power plants,Pakistan will have to open their coal mines which will produce billions of tons of CO2,and the green house gases knows no boundaries..The whole world will suffer.

 

[Jungibaaz]

All the so called green tech is way expensive than the more conventional ways of power production..Wind turbines,solar panels,tidal dams..all cost an arm and a leg.
Nuclear power may well the greenest power production method at the moment..If the nuclear waste is disposed off carefully,such a burring it deep underground,there are no other harmful effects on environment.
Why the world powers are being two faced? On one hand they want everything environment friendly on the other hand they stop third world countries from a greener power production method such as Nuclear...
In a country like Pakistan where 5000 megawatts are needed to sustain the minimum requirements.
Alternatively if stopped from Nuclear power plants,Pakistan will have to open their coal mines which will produce billions of tons of CO2,and the green house gases knows no boundaries..The whole world will suffer.

Our govt doesn't invest in cheap energy production, do you really think they will invest in expensive "green" energy???

We will switch to greener energy production methods after we supply the whole country with sufficient power......

 

[SBD-3]

so we will have 4-300MW n/plants = 1,200MW
one 1,000MW under discussions.

i think our strategy shd be to have at-least one 1,000MW n/plant for the 3 large cities Karachi/Lahore/Islamabad-R-pindi.

and 300MW n/plants for the smaller cities like hyderabad/sukkur/rykhan/bahawalpur/multan/quetta/peshawar along with the power generation from the hydro-electric grids. we shd slowly de-commission the oil and gas fired power plants as they are very expensive to operate.

I think it would be over optimistic we should remember that cheapest and most abundent source of energy in Pakistan and all over the world remains Water. While on training someone from PEPCO came to deliver a lecture on Energy Sector Issues and according to him only small waterfalls in Northern Areas had a potential of 200,000 MWTs at minimum add some big dams to it and we have a much much more cheap, safe and economically worthwhile electricity....I would love to see talks on identifying and building dams and alternative energy sources.
here is a good paper on energy sector potential in Pakistan
http://www.energy.com.pk/RenewEnerPakistan-NAZ.pdf

 

[ares]

Do you think China Pakistan are kids who dont know how to make contract or dont know which clauses to put in a contract. If i had access to real contact i'll surely tell you.

SOP means Standard Operating Procedure

I doubt anybody is implying the aforementioned!
But coming up with dedicated Nuclear liability laws, represents the seriousness, with which a country wants to adopt nuclear energy, as the primary means.

Even India has been building nuclear reactor,with foreign assistance since 1950s but it did not adopt a nuclear liability laws until recently, because now India seriously wants to pursue nuclear energy.
Which requires, a crystal clear nuclear energy policy!!

 

[Safriz]

Our govt doesn't invest in cheap energy production, do you really think they will invest in expensive "green" energy???

We will switch to greener energy production methods after we supply the whole country with sufficient power......

You mis understood my comment...please read again

 

[Safriz]

I think it would be over optimistic we should remember that cheapest and most abundent source of energy in Pakistan and all over the world remains Water. While on training someone from PEPCO came to deliver a lecture on Energy Sector Issues and according to him only small waterfalls in Northern Areas had a potential of 200,000 MWTs at minimum add some big dams to it and we have a much much more cheap, safe and economically worthwhile electricity....I would love to see talks on identifying and building dams and alternative energy sources.
here is a good paper on energy sector potential in Pakistan
http://www.energy.com.pk/RenewEnerPakistan-NAZ.pdf

200Giga watts is too optimistic.
The political hurdles in Pakistan wont let anybody build a Turbela size dam..We have the example of kalabagh dam..No technical problems,only politics has delayed the construction for decades,and still no end in sight..
The only viable alternative is nuclear..Specially when Pakistan got its own Uranium reserves.

 

[wangrong]

China National Nuclear Corp, the country's biggest builder of reactors, is seeking to construct a nuclear plant in Argentina as the company expands overseas.

State-run China National Nuclear will place a bid to build Argentina's fourth atomic plant, President Sun Qin said at a conference in Shanghai today. He didn't provide further details.

China's emergence as an exporter of nuclear power equipment would increase competition for Areva SA and General Electric Co, who were beaten in December to a $20 billion order in the Middle East by a group led by Korea Electric Power Corp. Chinese suppliers may make "a big breakthrough" in overseas expansion in one to two years, Sun said on March 5.

China National Nuclear and China Guangdong Nuclear Power Group are already in discussions with potential overseas customers, Sun said then, without elaborating

 

[GUNNER]

China confirms two nuclear reactors for Pakistan


Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:19am GMT

By Chris Buckley

BEIJING, Sept 21 (Reuters) - China on Tuesday gave its firmest government confirmation yet of plans to build two new nuclear reactors for Pakistan, but a Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said she did not know about talks over a bigger reactor deal.

The spokeswoman Jiang Yu said China plans to help Pakistan expand its Chashma nuclear energy complex in Punjab by building two reactors in addition to one already operating and another nearing completion.

Her comments also suggested Beijing may see no need to seek approval for the two new Chashma reactors from the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), an international council of governments, some of whose members have voiced qualms about the deal.

"This project is based on an agreement signed between the two countries in 2003 about cooperation in the nuclear power field," Jiang told a regular news conference, citing plans to build the No. 3 and No. 4 reactors of about 300 megawatts each at Chashma.

"China has already notified the International Atomic Energy Agency about the relevant details, and invited the IAEA to exercise safeguards and oversight of this project," said Jiang.

Up to now, Chinese government officials have been tight-lipped in public about the planned new units at Chashma, although the Chinese companies picked to build them have announced contract signings.

Jiang's statement that the new reactors come under a 2003 agreement may ruffle other countries that have pressed China to seek a waiver for them from the Nuclear Suppliers Group, a 46-member consensus-based body that seeks to ensure nuclear exports are not diverted to non-peaceful purposes.

Jiang was also asked about the China National Nuclear Corp's statement on Monday that it is in talks to build a 1-gigawatt nuclear reactor for Pakistan, in addition to the four smaller Chashma units built, being finished or planned.

But she had less to say on this.

"We don't understand this matter. You can make further inquiries with the company," Jiang said.

Pakistan is a long-standing partner of China, and has been suffering chronic power shortages.

To receive nuclear exports, nations that are not one of the five officially recognised atomic weapons states must usually place all their nuclear activities under the safeguards of the International Atomic Energy Agency, say NSG rules.

When the United States sealed its nuclear agreement with India in 2008, it won a waiver from that rule from the NSG after contentious negotiations in which China raised misgivings.

Washington and other governments have said China should at least seek a similar waiver for the planned new reactors in Pakistan.

But China now appears positioned to argue that the two new units at Chashma were part of an agreement made before it joined the NSG in 2004, and so do not need another waiver.

Beijing stayed quiet about Chashma at an NSG meeting in June and has not publicly sought an exemption.

 

[Cheetah786]

Solar panels are really not that cheap, will be expensive and will require more land to install enough solar panels to generate reasonable amount of power.

Which is cheaper to operate in the long run solar plant or a nuclear plant and which one is less likely to make you glow in the dark in case of accident.


i love how some here are suggesting putting the waist underground out of sight out of mind is the best solution any one have.
This is not west where the contractors building the site will be held by the nuts if something goes wrong.

 

[muse]

Pakistan plans nuclear power surge
By Syed Fazl-e-Haider

KARACHI - China, whose support of Pakistan's nuclear power industry has raised concern in the West, reportedly plans to build a nuclear plant that will be bigger than two already fully or nearly completed and two more agreed to with Beijing

China National Nuclear Corp (CNNC) plans to build the newly proposed 1-gigawatt plant. Critics say the latest move will stir international concern over the security of nuclear materials in Pakistan, where Islamist extremists are waging a bloody offensive, and over the possibility of material being used to power nuclear weapons.

China's nuclear industry executives, on the other hand, see abundant opportunities to expand their business overseas and want to use their experience with Pakistan's Chashma nuclear complex to leverage other contracts abroad.

"Both sides are in discussions over CNNC exporting a 1GW nuclear plant to Pakistan," Reuters quoted the company's vice president, Qiu Jiangang, as saying at a ceremony in Beijing on Monday. "After the successful, safe operation of the first 300-megawatt reactor in Chashma ... the second reactor is now under testing and is expected to start formal operations by the end of this year."

Chinese companies in June signed the latest contract in Shanghai in relation to two planned reactors at the Chashma complex in Punjab province. China says the contracts, for the 650-megawatt Chashma-3 and Chashma-4, are part of a 2004 deal under which Chashma-1 and Chashma-2, referred to by Qiu, were to be supplied. Pakistan also has an aging nuclear plant, its first, in Karachi, which was commissioned in 1972 and is now only partially operational.

Chashma-3 and Chashma-4 nuclear power plants are being built by the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission with the cooperation of China Zongyuan Engineering Corp, which specializes in foreign nuclear projects and is directly affiliated to CNNC.

China plans a huge expansion of its nuclear power in the next decade, and has about 28 reactors under construction, some 40% of the world's total being built. China Guangdong Nuclear Power Corp last week started commercial operations of the 1GW Lingao reactor in southern Guangdong province after the plant was constructed in a record-breaking 57 months.

The government wants to harness this nuclear power expertise it is developing at home to secure contracts overseas, where energy demand is increasing while concern about highly polluting fossil fuel-driven plants is also growing.

"We must rely on the Pakistan Chashma nuclear power project to improve our ability to contract for nuclear power projects abroad, and to open up the foreign market for nuclear energy," an essay recently published in Seeking Truth, a magazine issued by China's ruling Communist Party, said.

China claims its nuclear cooperation with energy deficient Pakistan is purely peaceful and follows international safeguards, while Islamabad also underlines the energy crisis the country faces.

"We are facing acute energy shortages and these nuclear power plants are important for us to overcome these," Reuters quoted a senior Pakistani government official familiar with discussions between Pakistan and China on nuclear cooperation as saying.

"We as well as China have said time and again that all this cooperation is under the safeguards of the IAEA [International Atomic Energy Agency] and there should not be any worries or concerns about it."

The US recently demanded an explanation from Beijing over its accord with Islamabad for building Chashma 3 and 4, as China is a member of Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), a regulatory body that oversees trade in nuclear fuel and technology.

Critics say the nuclear reactor deal requires special exemption from the NSG, as Pakistan has not signed the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT). China and Pakistan however point out that the US set a precedent by agreeing in 2006 to sell civilian nuclear fuel and technology to India, even though Delhi had yet to sign the NPT.

US President Barack Obama convened a summit in Washington in April that pledged renewed world efforts to secure and safeguard fissile materials from falling into the hands of militant groups. Beijing supported Islamabad in its quest for civil nuclear technology when it declared at the summit that every country had the right to the peaceful use of nuclear technology.

Deeply impoverished Pakistan may have to turn to Beijing for financing of the proposed 1GW reactor. China is to provide 82% of the total US$1.91 billion required for the two new Chashma reactors through a soft loan for a period of 20 years with an eight-year grace period. Pakistan is to arrange the rest.

In March, Washington made it known that energy was one of the sectors where the US would cooperate with Islamabad. The US plans to help the country refurbish three thermal and one hydro power plant that will add some 4,500 MW to the national grid.

The Rand Corporation, a US think-tank, recently urged the United States to consider offering a nuclear deal to Pakistan.

"The deal could be based on an exclusive relationship with the United States, rather than seeking broad accommodation with the Nuclear Suppliers' Group and other regimes that limit the proliferation of nuclear technology and access to materials for nuclear programs," the study suggested.

Syed Fazl-e-Haider (Syed Fazl e Haider) is a development analyst in Pakistan. He is the author of many books, including The Economic Development of Balochistan (2004). He can be contacted at sfazlehaider05@yahoo.com.

 

[Nahraf]

Pakistan had deficit of at least 6,000 MW and we need six 1GW nuclear plants. When Nuclear Suppliers Group under US pressure gave "exception" to India then the door was opened for more exceptions and now Pakistan will also get exception due time. We will see the usual temper tantrums from India but the end of the day Pakistan will have the nuclear power plants.

 

[QADRI]

Well you are buying a nuclear reactor, if it proves to be defective or there is mishap with the reactor, then who will pay for the damages ??

What is a SOP??

well you buy any reactor from anyother country then whats your nuclear liability.. what if your reactor proves to be defective or what if there is any mishaps ( which were happened in past) with the reactor...and who pay for them....? Answer these questions to yourself...and you will get the answer to your these BS questions too... and stop trying flame this thread... this is not of baharat rekhsha..

 

[ares]

well you buy any reactor from anyother country then whats your nuclear liability.. what if your reactor proves to be defective or what if there is any mishaps ( which were happened in past) with the reactor...and who pay for them....? Answer these questions to yourself...and you will get the answer to your these BS questions too... and stop trying flame this thread... this is not of baharat rekhsha..

look who is out on a trolling expedition!!

Why did you bother replying, when you did not have the answer??Question was definitely not directed to you!!

 

[Safriz]

This being a versatile reactor will be very useful for Pakistan.It can use mineral uranium,Plutonium,which Pakistan has in reasonable amount.It can burn depleted uranium,and extracts from burnt fuel waste,such as thorium.Pakistan has fascilities for Uranium enrichment which further enhances the feasibility of this type of reactor for the country.
If the new design is using pressurised water instead of the more expensive heavy water as moderator,then it will be even more cheaper and trouble free to operate.